Micro 545 | Slavic Music Mafia | Endgame

[Espeonage]

nah fuck that. I really want a room.

I would like someone who hates me to get a room with me.

I feel like this is a good idea.

So if you hate me, now is the time to say so.

Thanking you.

Refraining from voting for the moment. There is a mechanic, random votes aren't really needed.

[Espeonage]

Actually we both called them pregame.

And I don't want to break the game. I do wan to aggressively use rooms though. I feel like multiple rooms at a time should be something happening in constant rotations. Turbulence is a goldmine for reactions and can cause slipups and missplays. Both of which benefit town.

[Espeonage]

Get a room: notscience and bins

I urge anyone not named bins to immediately vote for this. If I see bins around I'm going to unvote.

[Espeonage]

lol sniped.

[Espeonage]

Ok so my thinking here is that we can force someone out of thread. All at the same time, use two days and get everyone to report back at the end of the 48 hours.

Are you cool with us doing that to you notti?

[Espeonage]

Get a room: NS and herrcombs
Get a room: NS and The_Jester
Get a room: NS and Postie
Get a room: NS and wgeurts
Get a room: NS and Apricity
Get a room: NS and Tere
Get a room: NS and Espeonage

You're not a septuple voter in this game, sorry --P

[Espeonage]

Yeah I like this approach. The sooner the better. We won't do it for everyone, but I think this provides an interesting alternative to RVS.

[Espeonage]

'More than one group of players can be told to get a room at a time.'
- The Rules, Plotinus

[Espeonage]

I also really like this for another reason.

[Espeonage]

Oh we only get one vote at a time for that. Lame.

Ok lemme rethink.

[Espeonage]

UnGet a room

...?

[Espeonage]

@Ploti, If three people are online, can they all vote for a room, the room gets made, and they all immediately vote for another room. Or are their votes locked on to that room for the period the room is open? If yes, does that not break the game with the clause that scum don't get a room together? If no, why is there a block on how many votes you can have at a time for rooms?

[Espeonage]

Get a room: NS and Bins

Lets get this going quickly then.

[Espeonage]

bruh

nah we're stacking NS.

Get a room: NS and Espeonage

[Espeonage]

NS/Yoghurts get a room

get a room

It takes 3 votes to get a room.

notscience and wgeurts

(R-0): notscience, wgeurts, Espeonage

<— ROOM

Not Voting

(6): Apricity, Bins, herrcombs, Postie, Tere, The_Jester

[Espeonage]

I gotta get ready for an interview. Someone take up the mantle.

Get a Room: NS: Postie

[Espeonage]

NS/Herr Room

[Espeonage]

Get a room: Espe/Postie

I want this asap.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Bins

[Espeonage]

NS/Jester room

[Espeonage]

I do. I call it, being against a system that I see no way of working badly for town.

[Espeonage]

I did not consent to this


Why

[Espeonage]

@75: Why even though. Like what point is there to joking about it?
@76: Ok see this right here, it's discussion, and I'll wager it's going to be much more useful in people's minds throughout the game than rvs stuff. And I don't get what is restricting about it. Ok you can't talk about someone for a short period. It's two irl days. But you can talk to them behind closed doors which is really really useful. These are neighbourhoods where you aren't restricted by mod wifom. That makes them incredibly useful. If two people are town reading each other it functions like a mason QT which is epic. If anything it brings about wonderful opportunities for scumhunting in a one on one environment and lets people drill others for a spell when they can't call for public aid. There is so much potential int he mechanic I don't understand how limiting yourself to the ingame thread is useful at all.
@77: Yes I understand you and notti having the room. Munch of this stuff was discussed prior to the game starting (as in before role PMs) and I knew notti wanted a hood with you from the outset. I also expressed interest in using them for 1v1s with people, if any exist, that disliked the way I play, specifically so I could be obtuse to try and infuriate people in to becoming easier to read. I feel like this style of play is strengthened by the pure 1 on 1 environment because things need to be taken without context that other players can provide. Yet another reason why I think varied hoods are great.

As for the plan, it could work with anyone, the point being we as town take someone out of the game and then are able to come back later on and draw up our responses on how we view that player after seeing them in a one on one situation. Then that gets contrasted in the game thread when they can talk again. I really like this approach as it lets us still have a functioning game where not too many people are held up for a couple of days, while providing a wealth of resourrces people can draw from, especially later in the game after we have flips. Day one with this mechanic is actually crucial to how the game splits open later on. This game has potential t be solvable as soon as tomorrow based entirely on relational tells.

Then you have the situation where as chance would have it we might pick a person who is actually scum. Then awkward conversations come up because of scum potentially not being able to talk to one another. (Another thing that twinged me about you slipping up just before)

I really don't see why this mechanic shouldn't be abused. And I feel that not using it offensively against scum is a really big mistake.

[Espeonage]

Not only did I not get first post, but I didn't even make the first page.

Damn.

VOTE: Apricity

Just before this gets lost. Why did you not have any comments on the plan when you came in?

[Espeonage]

I really don't see why this mechanic shouldn't be abused. And I feel that not using it offensively against scum is a really big mistake.

The thing is you have no idea who scum is right now.

I get it, it's a really important feature IN THIS SETUP.
Especially because if you can go and talk to someone and be like "Yo, I'm going to protect _____" tonight, so if I die, you know that this person could have potentially been the nightkill target.

BUT NO ONE IS TOWN-READING ANYONE that strongly yet.
This is actually clogging the game thread with room votes rather than actual votes that will push the game forward.

Ok no, firstly, in the rules scum can target themselves. So that line is categorically wrong, nothing is gained at all from discovering the NK target.

And why do people need to be townreading others to make use of the hoods. Drilling in to people, where there is no outside aid is an amazing scumhunting resource for people that read off emotions and reactions. As well as people that like to read via relationals, both to town and to scum.

And it doesn't clog the thread, it's one line and not difficult to see what it is.

[Espeonage]

1. Occam's razor has nothing to do with it. Occam's can even be used to prove scum will always shoot at themselves. Scum goal is to spread misinformation. Assumption is scum kill town. Scum is able to shoot themselves without dying. Simple action that results in scum's goal. tada.
2. We keep these hoods for the entirety of the game. They aren't limited. Only the talking about others has a time limit.
3. Which I think is awesome. People can pick apart our views. Look at motivations behind our stances and go from there. Which I personally would find much more useful than sifting through random votes until someone decides to put in a real shot at someone else. We've effectively skipped the least informative section of the game which is a wonderful use of our time.

[Espeonage]

They can talk. In the hoods. They are not restricted. They can actively talk to every other person in the game. I do not see the issue here. And people are back after 48 hours in a game with deadlines much longer. This is only an issue if people are going to be unable to talk about someone else close to deadline.

[Espeonage]

I actually want a room with you, but not yet, there is a bunch more that needs to be reacted to before I purposely make you mad in a PT.

And yes, that is how it works. If scum have an aim, occams says any action they take is to better that aim.

[Espeonage]

so the simplest way would be to NOT SHOOT THEMSELF IN THE FACE

Everyone is a bodyguard. There is next to zero chance scum are going to kill who they target. If anything, the person they target has the least chance of dying out of everyone because they can't protect themselves.

[Espeonage]

Wouldn't scum want to perpetuate discussion too? You know, to look town?

Imo the town has more motivation to do so, especially at this stage. Scum don't want to make any mistakes. The more you talk, the more you're prone to slipping up so I think it's more beneficial for scum to lurk early and wait for the situation to unfold.

This brings me to another point, which is my opinion on this whole Esp-Bins argument.
I gotta say I'm more on Esp's side on this (although not entirely)- I think that creating 1v1 discussions and then comparing them is a superior way of hunting mafia's slip ups.

However, there should be a balance- we can't just create 36 rooms at once cause it would be way too chaotic. I think we should do this methodically- as in, take one person, create him/her rooms with every other player and let them talk (like we began doing at the beginning with notscience). In the meantime, the rest can have an open discussion.

Phone posting, sorry for crap formatting.

This is exactly why it is setup like it currently is. The other room fits a particular aim of mine coming in to the game.

[Espeonage]

so the simplest way would be to NOT SHOOT THEMSELF IN THE FACE

Everyone is a bodyguard. There is next to zero chance scum are going to kill who they target. If anything, the person they target has the least chance of dying out of everyone because they can't protect themselves.

Man, if I was scum I would not shoot myself.

If I was scum in this setup I would shoot whoever the most universally town read person as they are most likely to have the most protections on them. And if that is me, and I'm scum, I am 100% shooting at myself because it results in the most town deaths and provided I can read what people's townreads are then there is no risk at all.

[Espeonage]

However, there should be a balance- we can't just create 36 rooms at once cause it would be way too chaotic. I think we should do this methodically- as in, take one person, create him/her rooms with every other player and let them talk (like we began doing at the beginning with notscience). In the meantime, the rest can have an open discussion.

This is pretty much what I'm saying.

Then why the fuck are you arguing against me if you agree with my stance?

[Espeonage]

That the entire point of the exercise though. A central theme if you will. Which means that is in no way at all, what you were saying.

[Espeonage]

@above:
1. Both
2. I think it's safe to assume there will be a pool of people that are intelligent NK picks.
3. There is potential for more death.
4. If you can't target yourself, then you won't be protecting yourself, and therefore won't be dying.
5. Ok I did miss that.

[Espeonage]

On phone at a lol viewing party rn. Will come back later. Ns' summary of his read on me does not fit his in pt stances at all.

[Espeonage]

Sorry I am busy rn. As I said viewing party. Bit I am gonna do a rare Espy wall.

[Espeonage]

Ok so first thing that needs to get mentioned is that I asked NS about if he had been paired with everyone yet, and he goes no, then proceeds to list all of the rooms he has and completely misses his room with herr. Now look, it's incredibly weak, herr had made one post and hadn't been active in thread since so it's not unusual for it to not be in his mind if he's doing it from memory. However it is something to keep in mind for later. If one of them flips scum somewhere down the track.

So I point it out, he admits it's suss. It's a fair exchange.

Now what happens after is what I want to focus on. I tell him that I will be telling the thread about it when we can talk about each other again. He immediately agrees that this is what he'd do too and that it would be remiss to not do so. Then out of nowhere he 180s on me and takes an aggressive stance on me. I say, quite clearly, it's not something I would push on him for without things to support it. He becomes snappy, tells me that he rarely gets lynched and for me to try my best at lynching him. He had zero reason to take this stance, and this is the same time he votes me in thread.

I try to work out wtf is going on.

Then we have the issue that he then apparently misreps the entire exchange while talking to postie, who I was quite vocal to him that they was a very strong town read for me and even admitted to him that the reason I wanted a room with them is because it had potential to transform into a pseudo masons room.

The reason I view this as important is that he evidently has reason to want to wedge us as we are townreading each other. I do not see a pro-town reason to do this, however I very much see a pro scum reason to do this.

Now it should also be noted, and we did cover this, that NS said the same to me about Jester, before he said it to Postie. So I think the word slip is legit. There is still potential value in pressure on Jester, but with the current state of my NS read there is no reason to do that right now.

Unvote, VoteL NS

[Espeonage]

Sure.

Postie is town based off of some of the ways she interacted with me in the PT, namely based off of a slipup I made (I had talked to jester pregame and I had brought up something we had talked about in that pt without mentioning that I had talked to him pregame) and that paranoia and keying inon that shows the deeper level of thinking indictive of town.

Jester I get awkward newbtown vibes from.

And the loser is town, her interactions with me in the PT seemed genuine especially her response to why she was being serious regarding the mechanics.

And Espe originally started as a misunderstanding where I thought I posted something and then didn't but overall he's the person who's actually been talking to me a fair amount that I'm not getting townvibes off of? Someone mentioned that centering the game around the rooms could be a way to try and starve the game of information but his excuse is that it makes it easier on emotional readers and I didn't think to ask but then my big question is

who in this game would that even apply to?

Overall it's not a take to the bank scumread but it's the best I hve atm

MEEEEEEEEEEE.

And potentially others but idk people's playstyles and there is always potential for people to find something.

[Espeonage]

The arrogance is really not appreciated.

[Espeonage]

There's a difference between playing the game and trying to lynch a scumread, and being obnoxious.

[Espeonage]

Ok so OMGUS isn't inherently scummy. The rashness of not checking stuff back and doing the whole waiting/talking thing is what is scummy there.

PEDIT: Truth be told. I can kinda see how it doesn't really belie that he read the game. But by the same token, it does imply that paying attention was at the barest level, happening.

Regardless the reaction to the vote from you is bad.

[Espeonage]

Get a room: Tere/Espe

[Espeonage]

However I think we should start easing on the rooms. But I want to chat on objective play.

[Espeonage]

@ Espe: do you believe ns voted you because of his 180 flip in aggression with respect to discussing the ns/herr PT?

Potentially. However I also think that in the back of my mind, it might have been a clique show of solidarity with Bins.

Other than that, idgi. Or rather I don't get why it stayed. There was a mixup with what he thought my read on bins was, but it was poor wording on my part.

[Espeonage]

Hello people. I am alive, first day on the job followed by a full day of quidditch, then catching up with the team and then sleeping in then quidditch again followed by idk what. So kinda v/la this time of the week. It's been a big week sorry.

[Espeonage]

I am really behind and about to go back to bed, but Bins' explanation of her ns read, reads as a scum read apart from the last line where she calls him town. idgi.

[Espeonage]

herr's vote is bad flops. Going to laugh a lot if NS actually did slip. Going to laugh so hard.

I am still behind but mostly popping in to ruin Ploti's wincon.

[Espeonage]

Pagetop, soz.

[Espeonage]

Well tournament starts in a few hours and it's a two day one. The LA bit of VLA is limited access which is accurate atm. So it's like insurance if I don't get a chance to post. Only reason I am on is it's 4:30am and I am too excite to sleep.

so until Monday? Good luck in tourney

[Espeonage]

I'll be back tonight. Kinda dead and got job stuff to do for both of my jobs.

[Espeonage]

Games have been back burner if I have to think. I didn't actually notice deadline was so close. I am on my way to bed now Bc I am still dead on my feet and have the dreaded post tournament flu.

As for shit that needs to be addressed. Ns' rehash was p correct iirc correctly and I was happy with it when I skimmed. Micoms isn't a scum tell and stuff will sort itself out in the wash. I have too many town reads which will need time to sift through if ns was proper derps. Not going to throw it all away though. I'll be on bf deadline. Probs in like 8-10 hours. If I can't get outer access I'll see about heading to a cafe. Worst case I'm on phone like I have been and can do basic stuff.

[Espeonage]

Can someone go over Herr wagon as well Bc I don't remember that and its probs. Something I should know about bf end of day if I can't go back and read.

Do we have hoods at night time?

Yes, hoods remain open at night. --P

[Espeonage]

If yes I'll save money and see y'all tomorrow. If I die there knows why so listen to her.

[Espeonage]

There should be tere.

[Espeonage]

When did I become a leading wagon?

Well I'm here now.

Unvote, Vote: Apricity

Why is Apricity scum? I don't remember any of their posts.

[Espeonage]

Gonna get up to date on my hoods. I'll be around.

[Espeonage]

I forgot to bold when I asked before, do hoods stay open at night?

Yeah, they do. --P

[Espeonage]

Weavile and Sneasel in their respective metagames are both generally KOed by Neutral STAB so they either KO or they die. So Life Orb is fine.

[Espeonage]

No one runs Weavile without removal.

[Espeonage]

I want to talk to peeps about NS. I'd rather not that rn.

[Espeonage]

I want to talk to peeps about NS. I'd rather not that rn.

What do you think of Apricity and Herrcombs as a team?

I don't think of that.

[Espeonage]

Herr, RC, Apricity, NC, Jester is my lynch pool. My lynch pool is entirely people I don't have either a solid townread on, or think I can determine a solid read one way or another quickly.

[Espeonage]

I haven't been here since the replace in. Hence fits the criteria for lynch pool. It's not going to happen, but you did ask.

[Espeonage]

Well FWIW I had a pretty decent townread on wguerts before he replaced out too. So RC is OK in my book. Aren't you guys talking in your hood?

I haven't been around so no.

[Espeonage]

Zero chance.

[Espeonage]

Do I get any points for telling the truth. BC this looks like the time where my parents asked if I actually ate my sandwich and told me that I wouldn't get in trouble for telling the truth and so I told the truth and got in trouble.

[Espeonage]

Well Apricity isn't on me, so that is equivalent to hammer. Appreciated Jester.

Y'all should listen to Tere, she seems like she's got her head screwed on. Peace out.

[Espeonage]

Get a room: Postie/Tere

[Espeonage]

Unvote

[Espeonage]

I want herr fwiw

[Espeonage]

block

[Espeonage]

oh she psyched it

counting is hard. we're actually 5 posts away from pagetop not 1 post away from pagetop. so i deleted my own posts. --P

[Espeonage]

Damn you ploti

[Espeonage]

Vote: Herr

[Espeonage]

dead pt is a p good read tbh.

Release my PTs. NS and my pt is probably an important read.

I really enjoyed this game. Town played really well.

[Espeonage]

This was actually a p awesome playerlist too.

[Espeonage]

If tweaked, it has potential to be a mainstay open. It is an awesome mechanic.

[Espeonage]

/prein

[Espeonage]

I nommed ploti for best mutation too. Go 2nd and nth