Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[The Phantom of the Opera]

This is scummy IMO... I mean if you're scum reading him why would you expect scum to take care of him?? And you sound really confident that he is scum...

I am not confident that he is scum, did I ever vote Gumby??? I did not. If I was really sure, I would have vigged him.

I disagree with the people that believe that the manner of his outing as Miller made him town.

You are deliciously obvscum. Please post more.

This is scummy IMO... I mean if you're scum reading him why would you expect scum to take care of him?? And you sound really confident that he is scum...

I am not confident that he is scum, did I ever vote Gumby??? I did not. If I was really sure, I would have vigged him.

I disagree with the people that believe that the manner of his outing as Miller made him town.

You are deliciously obvscum. Please post more.

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!

I disagree with the people that believe the manner of your outing as one-shot big makes YOU town.
And that's why I'm "deliciously obvscum"??? I guess we can be "deliciously obvscum" together then!!! LOLOLOLOL

I asked you why you meant by "expecting the scum to take care of him". I generally don't expect scum to shoot my scumspects for me. I wondered why you felt differently. I also pointed out that didn't really make sense when you seemed confident that he was scum, which is something that I thought based on your tone and expected you didn't vote him because you didn't think you could get him lynched.

[Quailford LOL]

Bravo! Bravo! Encore!

[The Phantom of the Opera]

sooth i asked you a question about your read on phantom and you never answered it

you used to be cool before you started riding soothsayer's coattails

LOL, sooth is towning up this game, you want to berate Shady for "riding his coattails?"

Try again.

Pushing people for being inactive is kind of stupid... He said that he had real life things to do and I believe him...

I take this to mean your buddy is lurking, and we shouldn't suspect him.

sooth i asked you a question about your read on phantom and you never answered it

you used to be cool before you started riding soothsayer's coattails

LOL, sooth is towning up this game, you want to berate Shady for "riding his coattails?"

Try again.

LOL!

I was making fun of Shady for being a fanboy because making fun of Shady is fun!
But you wouldn't know how to do that, would you?

sooth i asked you a question about your read on phantom and you never answered it

you used to be cool before you started riding soothsayer's coattails

LOL, sooth is towning up this game, you want to berate Shady for "riding his coattails?"

Try again.

Pushing people for being inactive is kind of stupid... He said that he had real life things to do and I believe him...

I take this to mean your buddy is lurking, and we shouldn't suspect him.

LOL

You're tunneling. For little to no reason. But I like your posting style!

LOL

[The Phantom of the Opera]

Bravo! Bravo! Encore!

this tells me and everyone else that you aren't actually reading my posts which is a shame

the point that i'm making with regards to your slot is that i've thought of the "use factional kill to shoot scummy looking townie, claim one-shot vig" piece before and that it isn't very difficult to execute. as a result, i'm not comfortable with clearing you based on the claim alone like the great and mighty soothsayer seems to be doing.

you suspecting me for this while making the same exact point about gumby's claim would be confusing or maybe even suspicious if you weren't handling this situation like a crazy person.

[Shady]

sooth i asked you a question about your read on phantom and you never answered it

you used to be cool before you started riding soothsayer's coattails

gonna have to say i dont give a fuck what you think bitch

[the_soothsayer]

Still massively overdosed on painkillers. Fun times.

@Shady

- Thought I had answered it but my read on Opera is most certainly meta involved, a lot of his D1 play and even some of his play today I struggle buying from Town!Opera and there's a lot of stances I'd expected him to take differently as town, for instance I don't buy the aggression and confidence behind his Dimitri push to the point where he'd prod dodge and ignore other possibilities and cases (ie. Cell) just to wait till Dimitri died, I also don't buy his Quailford read here.

That said I like most of Operas analysis about GVs D1 play inside Post 1063 but disagree with some of his D2 sections and I think his conclusion as well..for instance I don't like his Quailford focus nor do I like him attempting to focus on Deads result, find it really difficult he could genuinely believe that's an important avenue to focus on whereas it's something really easy to discuss as scum and GVs conclusions and analysis on it make no sense.

Also while a 1-shot vig claim on a night where a single kill isn't particularly difficult for scum to claim I think it's rather unlikely for scum to actually do, especially in a situation like this. I'll elaborate it means 1) Shooting a suboptimal target from the get go 2) Leaving Quailford open to the "Why is he still alive" section in the late game 3) Puts him in a difficult situation if there's another vig in the game (Say a limited shot or even night etc.) or if there are other roles that don't work particularly well with it. It's not an "impossible" move but it's hardly easy like Operas making it out to be. There's also the fact that there were several players town reading Quailford before this even occurred which means that there's little reason for Quailford to pull this move himself; if this was scums plan when making the night kill why would they not get Cell/Joey to claim the shot given a) He was drawing attention already and b) He's a strong role that benefits scum.

Sorry for jumping in here... but I don't think that having a moment of paranoia means that he thinks you're scum and I don't think that it means he had to have you as scum in your posts before... I also think that he was probably looking for something other than "give a list of reads and explain them thoroughly" and I can't blame him... That's a lot of effort and effort is hard sometimes xD

Would hardly call it a "moment of paranoia", for him to take the stance "the game makes a lot of sense with X as scum" means he's considering several factors when making that comment, it's not a "Oh shit X might be scum" type of line and him thinking that while having voted Dipsy at the same very time is problematic. Also posting a few reads/reasoning isn't all that hard, especially since my expectations of him are one-two liners only.

[Concorde]

So why did you shoot ST quail?

[Spider Gwen]

I also find it interesting that this is where Greatvalue is focusing the majority of his effort considering this isn't a lynch that's going to happen for today and whether he's distancing or softening a mislynch target he's not putting in work on a mislynch that the scum team actually needs and if Dipsy is scum, he's not setting himself up for looking good the next day so I'm doubly sure that he's town if Dipsy is scum.

I'm really not sure how this follows that they can't be scum together. You don't really explain it. Especially since this:

I wouldn't mind him addressing the concerns I have on him so far and talking to me about his Dipsy read (since I don't think I've seen a single mention of Dipsy in his entire ISO).

would suggest a possible Dipsy connection. Simply put, you seem to dismiss any sort of team possibility even though the reasons given don't make much sense. Heck, I'm not even sure it could be said that you gave adequate reasons for that town read at all.

I also don't like the next couple of posts from you. There's a strong tendency of answering questions for other people, but not in a way that gives any real answers or hints that you may actually be reading them in any sort of way. It seems pretty weak and limpwristed here. In the end, you interrupted lines of questioning without really saying anything of substance and you came away with not really much of a stance on anything or anyone you stood up for.

[The Phantom of the Opera]

sooth i asked you a question about your read on phantom and you never answered it

you used to be cool before you started riding soothsayer's coattails

gonna have to say i dont give a fuck what you think bitch

awww I love you too shadester

[The Phantom of the Opera]

for instance I don't buy the aggression and confidence behind his Dimitri push to the point where he'd prod dodge and ignore other possibilities and cases (ie. Cell) just to wait till Dimitri died, I also don't buy his Quailford read here.

You're mixing together things that shouldn't be mixed mister Sayer-chan! You're like a mediocre cook grabbing a bunch of spices from the kitchen cupboard and putting them in soup and the soup is not good!!!

My post where I said that I was prod dodging until Dimitri died was a prod dodge, not evidence of me being so confident that I wasn't going to look at anything else before he flipped!

It's super duper duper surprising that you can't purchase my Quilford read! Well not that surprising because it's not for sale (lol! ^.^) !!! But seriously lol the only point I was making was that I didn't agree that the one-shot vig claim made him super awesome top tier town and maybe he could be scum! I'll admit that the brazenness of that OMGUS is giving me doubts but I'm not clearing him just because Daddy soothsayer told me to!!! You can't tell me what to do!!! I'm also listening to your logic on the slot but I think I disagree with it! Sorry!!!

[The Phantom of the Opera]

I'll elaborate it means 1) Shooting a suboptimal target from the get go 2) Leaving Quailford open to the "Why is he still alive" section in the late game 3) Puts him in a difficult situation if there's another vig in the game (Say a limited shot or even night etc.) or if there are other roles that don't work particularly well with it. It's not an "impossible" move but it's hardly easy like Operas making it out to be. There's also the fact that there were several players town reading Quailford before this even occurred which means that there's little reason for Quailford to pull this move himself; if this was scums plan when making the night kill why would they not get Cell/Joey to claim the shot given a) He was drawing attention already and b) He's a strong role that benefits scum.

Oh boy! This is a wall of logic! Thanks for posting this Soothy I will do my best to address your concerns! Please go easy on me ^.^

1) Mister Soothsayer, we are talking about making a suboptimal kill in exchange for town cred. Town cred is a very valuable thing for scum to have and sometimes they do suboptimal things (such as pushing their own scumpartner's lynch!) for town cred. I don't feel that shooting a townie that isn't very widely suspected instead of a bigger threat is that big of a deal, especially when you know that the next day is probably just gonna be a cellphone lynch and there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

2) Oh dear! I think you're super duper wrong about this! If I were scum, Quailford would not be on my kill list for a long time yet. His kill doesn't prove anything and he has no more powers. I've also won every endgame as scum where I was universally townread; sure, people ask "why are you still alive?" and then you say "I don't know" and then you lynch the townies! Don't you endgame as scum despite having an award-winning towngame mister soothsayer?

3) Vigs normally shoot N1 if they can (they are bloodthirsty like vampires... Happy Halloween everyone lol!). Even night vig + one-shot vig is reasonable enough. I don't think counterclaim worries would be that big of a deal tbh!

As for why they would have Quailford claim it as opposed to Joey, well there are 2 reasons! The first reason is how humans work! We are selfish creatures. We play mafia for glory and fame! If quailford came up with the fake claim, he probably didn't want to give it to his fuckboy lurkshit scumbuddy!!! The second reason is because of momentum! Lots of people are scumreading him. The scum motivation for making a claim like this is obvious. If Quailford claims it, the scum motivation is not so obvious and thus it might actually help him go deep! Think about it!!!

I almost just signed this post with my real name OMG! >.> <.<

[The Phantom of the Opera]

.for instance I don't like his Quailford focus nor do I like him attempting to focus on Deads result, find it really difficult he could genuinely believe that's an important avenue to focus on whereas it's something really easy to discuss as scum and GVs conclusions and analysis on it make no sense.

I like his Quail focus partially because I'm having the same thoughts. It doesn't surprise me that you don't like the Quail focus because you aren't having the same thoughts.

I don't mind the GV hunting to see if he can discern anything from Dead's ISO, especially since he thought he found a crumb. I don't really understand why you dislike it; yeah it ultimately ended up being useless but that happens to me all the time so maybe I'm just a bad player?

[The Phantom of the Opera]

would suggest a possible Dipsy connection. Simply put, you seem to dismiss any sort of team possibility even though the reasons given don't make much sense. Heck, I'm not even sure it could be said that you gave adequate reasons for that town read at all.

The reasons I don't think they are scum together, simplified, are:

1) Two scum deciding to bus their partner at the same time seems weird.

2) Greatvalue ignoring his partner getting lynched today and ignoring a very viable mislynch alternative to instead focus on Quailford (someone who probably isn't getting today) seems weird when he lost a partner yesterday. I would like his view on Dipsy because there's a possibility I could be wrong and because I genuinely do want his input on Dipsy.

[The Phantom of the Opera]

I also don't like the next couple of posts from you. There's a strong tendency of answering questions for other people, but not in a way that gives any real answers or hints that you may actually be reading them in any sort of way. It seems pretty weak and limpwristed here. In the end, you interrupted lines of questioning without really saying anything of substance and you came away with not really much of a stance on anything or anyone you stood up for.

LET'S BREAK IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT

GWEN I INTERRUPTED TWO QUESTIONS
TWO

THE FIRST ONE WAS SHADY SUSPECTING GV FOR LURKING
THIS IS A DUMB REASON

THE SECOND ONE WAS SOOTH SUSPECTING MEGAFAN FOR FLOATING THE IDEA OF BEING SCUM
THIS IS ALSO A DUMB REASON

I DIDN'T TALK ABOUT MY READS ON THEM BECAUSE I DONT HAVE READS ON THEM

AND I WASNT TALKING ABOUT READS ON THEM

I WAS CALLING OUT DUMB LINES OF REASONING

CAPICHE?

[Quilford]

• Votecount 3.4
  
  
  Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy (4)— Spider Gwen, Shady, Megafan1998, Natural Aristocracy
  The Phantom of the Opera (2)— the_soothsayer, Quailford LOL
  Natural Aristocracy (1)— Greatvalue
  Shady (1)— Concorde
  
  
  Not Voting
  (3)— The Phantom of the Opera, Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  
  It takes 6 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-11-08 15:09:44).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Prodding Megafan1998.

[Megafan1998]

Literally forgot about this game. Tis what happens when I play on alts.

[Gumby]

Going to be honest and admit that I've skimread for the last few days and paid incredibly little attention.

I'm going to start reading through from the beginning of the day in about ten minutes.

Don't hold your breath or expect any fancy revelation.

[Gumby]

Gumby towned it up pretty hard for me on d2

I barely made any posts D2, if my memory serves me correctly. How did I "town it up", exactly?

You are scum trying to cast suspicion on what is an entirely reasonable position.

After 1067, I found this comment hilariously lacking self-awareness.

Was expecting a lot more to come out of this readthrough. Disappointed.

VOTE: Phantom of the Opera dude's scum.

[the_soothsayer]

My post where I said that I was prod dodging until Dimitri died was a prod dodge, not evidence of me being so confident that I wasn't going to look at anything else before he flipped!

Find it exceedingly hard to believe that as town you couldn't find a few minutes to catch up at least partially with the game even if you were busy and assess whether any of the other wagons (ie. Cell) were worth considering at any point.

@Opera RE: Post 1085 about Quailford;

1) I don't disagree that sometimes scum play sub optimally but if scum were in a position were one of their strong power roles was already drawing attention and a likely lynch D1 I'd think they'd be wanting to shoot someone that would likely be pushing that slot, Shiba didn't fit that at all and Shiba was in fact a counter wagon they could have considered to Cell given the number of people suspecting Shiba. 2) I again don't disagree that Quailford wouldn't make scums kill list yet but come D4/D5/D6 etc. I expect them to consider shooting him and sure I've endgamed as scum getting people to ignore the fact that I should be dead but I've also been bitten by it before too. 3) I wouldn't have bought 2 vig claims inside a Quilford game. 4) I disagree that people are "selfish" with their claims, you draft/allocate claims depending on what helps the team overall, not the individual player and again Quailford

didn't need

town cred at the time nor any foreseeable time in the future so them plotting this whole thing solely for him seems very unlikely.

I don't mind the GV hunting to see if he can discern anything from Dead's ISO, especially since he thought he found a crumb. I don't really understand why you dislike it; yeah it ultimately ended up being useless but that happens to me all the time so maybe I'm just a bad player?

Oh he most certainly noticed a crumb, as did I. Noticing a crumb and attempting to turn it into the main discussion of the day are two entirely different things though, the former is fine and understandable the latter has a lot of scum motivation towards it (Makes for an easy way to contribute, gets people to focus on a fairly useless discussion) and it was obvious that it was going to be a useless discussion from the get go given that Dead wasn't a cop, she was a vanilla cop and she didn't state if she got Quailford as PR or VT in her posts nor is it able to be discerned.

[the_soothsayer]

Still feeling p good with my Opera vote though Dipsys and NAs continual lurking out the day is terrible.

Literally forgot about this game. Tis what happens when I play on alts.

Please answer my Post 1058

[Quailford LOL]

Dipsys and NAs continual lurking out the day is terrible.

[Greatvalue]

If I had a dayvig shot right now I would, without hesitation, shoot NA. The posts that Shady pointed out about NA giving CellPhone null reads and consistently wanting to hear more before committing in any way are strong partner indicators. This is an associative tell that I've constantly found to be reliable.

Then upon NA's scumflip, I would attempt to power lynch Spider Gwen. Call it a shot in the dark, but right now that's what feels right about the scumteam membership. I find myself both disagreeing with a lot of her stances (I do think her Dipsy wagon is a distraction from NA, and that her 1026 "I really can't see Dipsy and Aristocrat being scum together, and my reads are heavily pointing toward Dipsy as scum." is a very easy post for any scum to make to serve whatever need they have) and thinking that her posts are more designed to look towny rather than actually caring about the responses (1056 questioning a vote on the wagon she heavily supports after she's given reasoning to try and convince people to vote it - town in this case most often tends to just go with it and take what they get), and it feels like she's setting up chains that aren't there, and Gumby's recent comment about her post saying "Gumby towned it up on day 2" doesn't do anything to help that.

The Gwen read isn't contingent on NA being scum, though. Her Dispy vs. Aristocrat dichotomy, weak town-cred questioning (1035 and 1056) and "observations over analysis" (1082) are weak points on their own but together form a significant pattern of behavior I just don't see as coming from town who genuinely wants to find out who's scum. It feels more like the ISO of someone mostly going with the flow through the game and trying to look respectable too.

I've also done a self analysis in light on Gwen's 1013 and 1014 attacking me. I stand by my thoughts and think I'm being perfectly reasonable in my concern, and don't think my scum read on her has actually been influenced by that in any significant way. So my usual OMGUS insecurities are in check here!

[Greatvalue]

greatvalue is there a reason you were inactive for such a long time on day 1

Because reasons. Not scum reasons though. Null reasons.

[Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy]

could not post today due to reasons quilford is aware of

back tomorrow

[the_soothsayer]

GV, there's so much of your Gwen scum read explanation that I detest and find abysmal in Post 1096;

1) It's very natural to question someones reasoning for joining the wagon you support especially given that Megafan never really stated any preference for it in the past, how that's somehow a scum-tell is a joke not to mention that I essentially asked Megafan the same thing and don't mind the wagon myself.

2) Her question about why Quailford didn't shoot Gumby makes sense if you follow the progression of her read and questioning there, she and Quailford both scum-read Gumby and she wanted an explanation as to why he didn't shoot that scum read to get a better read on him, that's not a scum-tell at all.

3) While it's easy for scum to take association reasons to avoid taking stances or to mould their stances it's ridiculously evident inside Gwens ISO that NA v Dipsy has been something she's been considering the entire fucking game so her mentioning it today as an explanation as to why she prefers Dispsy (Her strong scum read throughout the entire game) over NA is very very very understandable. And if you had actually gone through her ISO you'd have noticed she had mentioned the NA v Dipsy even D1 in Post 546 so you trying to swing this as a scum-tell now is beyond dreadful.

Not to mention I agree with Gwens Post 1013 entirely and don't think you were being "perfectly reasonable" with your concern re; Deadles soft on Quailford or how it may lead towards him being mafia, it really isn't difficult to work out that a Vanilla Cops softclaim of reading someone as town isn't going to assist in getting a read on Quailford since Dead could have either result and could be town reading him for either reason.