Reasonably Rational wrote:Ranger, for developing a scum read strong enough to mark a player after two meaningless posts were made by that player.
And I refuse to believe you hold this opinion when I've made it clear that where I come from, RVS content is important.
pistachi0n wrote:Ranger, is your marking only useful at the beginning of the day?
Sort-of? The later into the day I use the mark, the less utility there is behind me having marked a player.
Fuck off with your "I refuse to believe" bullshit. Neither of us care one bit about your ego stroking "I'm amazing and can have perfect reads 100% of the time based upon posts which are by definition random, and I told you that I come from a site where RVS content miraculously wins the game for town 100% of the time" bullshit. Self-meta is worthless, and sorry but your reads are so bad it's actually funny. I literally am laughing at how bad your reads and play is so far today.
~Drixx
So let me get this straight. You attack him for that yet you townread wgeurts who does essentially the same thing.....?
Reasonably Rational wrote:Neither of us care one bit about your ego stroking "I'm amazing and can have perfect reads 100% of the time based upon posts which are by definition random, and I told you that I come from a site where RVS content miraculously wins the game for town 100% of the time" bullshit.
Never once have I said my reads were perfect. I have five scumreads; there can be only three scum in the game. Even if the scum are entirely within the five names, by definition that means I'm wrong on two. Never once have I claimed I was amazing. (I might be
regarded
as one of the better analysts on my home site, but I've never thought of myself that way. I'm just an average player.) I also quite explicitly said that RVS content does not win the game for us. I said in 5/6 games, it's important. Of those games, though, half are mafia wins. (Give or take.) It's no miracle winning strategy.
However, I refuse to let you call the RVS content irrelevant when my style of play is largely based around it. While it may not instantly win the game, it
is
important. It's what I focus on the most, because it's what I've found easiest to find scum in. The way my mind works, I
thrive
on random. Meaning, I pick up on random things...which the RVS is filled with. Does it work all the time, no. But does it work as a valid tactic? Yes.
sorry but your reads are so bad it's actually funny. I literally am laughing at how bad your reads and play is so far today.
We'll see who's laughing at who by the end of the game.
{Elbirn, Suzune, Jeanne, FireKari, Titus}
{pistachi0n, Klingoncelt}
{Reasonably Rational, wgeurts}
{BRantz}
{LicketyQuickety, Blackest Magic}.
This is where I stand right now.
AKA, rBree2. Casual tryhard. I've Quite the RANGE. #pluralgang
"Interestingly though, town winrate in Blitzes has been really high."
Reasonably Rational wrote:Neither of us care one bit about your ego stroking "I'm amazing and can have perfect reads 100% of the time based upon posts which are by definition random, and I told you that I come from a site where RVS content miraculously wins the game for town 100% of the time" bullshit.
Never once have I said my reads were perfect. I have five scumreads; there can be only three scum in the game. Even if the scum are entirely within the five names, by definition that means I'm wrong on two. Never once have I claimed I was amazing. (I might be
regarded
as one of the better analysts on my home site, but I've never thought of myself that way. I'm just an average player.) I also quite explicitly said that RVS content does not win the game for us. I said in 5/6 games, it's important. Of those games, though, half are mafia wins. (Give or take.) It's no miracle winning strategy.
However, I refuse to let you call the RVS content irrelevant when my style of play is largely based around it.
While it may not instantly win the game, it
is
important. It's what I focus on the most, because it's what I've found easiest to find scum in. The way my mind works, I
thrive
on random. Meaning, I pick up on random things...which the RVS is filled with. Does it work all the time, no. But does it work as a valid tactic? Yes.
sorry but your reads are so bad it's actually funny. I literally am laughing at how bad your reads and play is so far today.
We'll see who's laughing at who by the end of the game.
{Elbirn, Suzune, Jeanne, FireKari, Titus}
{pistachi0n, Klingoncelt}
{Reasonably Rational, wgeurts}
{BRantz}
{LicketyQuickety, Blackest Magic}.
This is where I stand right now.
*I* called the RVS content irrelevant on D1. As we get deeper into the game, more meaning can be drawn from everything that happened during D1. Including RVS, if said posts are made from people who are stupid. I'm going to assume you're used to playing with idiots who create clear associatives and intent during what is, essentially, the least meaningful part of the game.
Anyways. You said that marking was bad. You said that explicitly. You said it might *not* be bad, if you didn't use it. Your only defense to your early usage is that you believe it would have given more useful information at that point, than if used later, even though when used later you can analyze what conversations were actively disrupted by your usage of the power.
Reads lists that are lists of names are stupid. I realize you have expressed an opinion on those slots before, with reasons, I'm just saying put the reasons...in the list. It's easy to vomit out a reads list. It's not easy to vomit out a reads list that is consistent with prior play and which accounts for changes in your opinion which may have occurred.
Oh, the Kari point, and the thing about my lack of town reads. Every single person who has done anything which *could* be argued to be town motivated, has done so in a fashion that's left me with the ability to argue, with equal ardor, that it's actually scum motivated. Some people, like Brantz, who don't have any content, but what content they do have is reasonably town, are naturally suspect because of the fact that they don't have content in the first place.
RE: Kari conftowning. They said they could probably(possibly?) conftown on D2. They had already established when they could conftown, HOWEVER, the fact that they didn't simply say they would conftown at such and such time indicates that their method of conftowning is likely subjective. They are not an Innocent Child, they are someone who has a power which they feel has no scum utility, which they can prove, and they believe doing so will confirm them as town, even though simply having a power with no scum utility, gives it the ability to be used to generate town cred.
That is why I asked under what circumstances they wouldn't be able to conftown. They did not phrase their conftown claim in a fashion which inspires confidence, but rather in a way that makes it sound far more like a subjective thing, or one based upon a gambit they will/are going to make.
Plus, he rages that I ask others for objective proof, yet when not given objective proof himself, he also rages. Therefore, unless RR stops raging at me for asking to be given objective proof, he cannot ask for objective proof either.
Jeanne, this is likely the last time this head of the hydra will respond to you, for today at least. The issue with what you're doing isn't the demand for objective proof. The issue is the fact that you seem to be unable to realize that objective proof is not available at this point in the game, and that all objective proof which is later provided WILL NOT, in and of itself, confirm anyone's alignment. There are ALWAYS going to be counterarguments for whether or not a specific set of plays was made by a scum slot or a town slot. The goal is to use the various pieces of objective proof available throughout the game to diminish the probability of certain alignments when applied to specific slots. It's a matter of finding a series of events IMPROBABLE, for various reasons...not a matter of finding out, with absolute certainty, that someone is some alignment. The ONLY time you know someones alignment is when they flip, or if the mod confirms them.
Imagine, for a moment, that alignments are on a sliding scale. 0 is scum, 100 is town. You have been asserting that unless someone is at 100 for you, they are scum to you. That is a problem, because of the above fact that nobody should EVER be at 100 barring mod confirmation. No slot should ever be above 90 or so, simply because WiFoM is a thing, and the people who play this game are smart. Improbable != impossible.
On top of all of the above is the fact that you are drawing parallels between the play of DIFFERENT PEOPLE. You say wgeurts is playing like Shiro. WHO CARES????? Wgeurts is not Shiro. Even if Wgeurts WERE Shiro, the fact that Shiro played in such and such fashion last time DOES NOT mean that this time his play has the same meaning. You are misusing the concept of meta, already a terrible way to judge people(because if you assume competence in other players, you have to assume they are aware of and/or can manipulate their own meta when required) by applying the meta of one person to someone else.
On another note, you also attack me on the basis of what you view as inconsistencies in my response to wgeurts statements, and rangers marking of wgeurts. The primary difference here is that wgeurts *had* content to go off of when he made his statements. He had a readslist, which pointed to actual events and things individuals had said, and his reaction to them and why. Ranger...points to two posts, which are nearly devoid of value, and says they're the reason for his action. It simply doesn't make sense.
With that handled, let me address the "assumptions" made above. I am asserting that the only way said statements made by others make sense to me, is in the event that my assumption is true. If my assumption is not true. I find the other persons statements to be unreasonable conclusions to arrive at. It's as simple as that. I am not saying x is the case if y is the case. i am saying x only MAKES SENSE TO ME if y is the case. If not, please have another go at explaining this to me in a way that will make sense to me.
I'd also like to remind both Titus and Jeanne that there's no rage here.
I hold a subjective opinion that Jeannes methodology for determining alignment and those who she trusts in the game is worthless, therefore her contributions are of negligible value, and thus she should be ignored because she's talking too much for someone who isn't contributing to the thread productively.
With regards to Kari's conftown claim, Titus, that particular situation with Mastin is the exact reason why I'm questioning this conftown claim. it has been my experience that people who say they are going to conftown at such and such point are generally relying upon town's acceptance of their assertions, and not confirmation of some sort from the mod. Thus, they are not "conftowning" themselves. At best, they are obvtowning themselves. It's a semantic quibble, but it's a major one. Someone who conflates conftowning and obvtowning is going to later run into the scenario where, predictably, there will be a group shouting "Kill them, they said they were going to conftown and they aren't!" and another shouting "Leave them alone, if they were scum they wouldn't draw such attention to themselves with a claim they can't hope to back up." This is not a productive circumstance, and one which I wish to avoid by confirming what status Kari claims their slot will attain on D2.
All of this, by the way, ignores the fact that they're claiming they will be conftowning IN PRIVATE, thereby forcing us to wait until we see a flip from those who agree that whatever they revealed does indeed conftown them, and then we need to decide, if they're town, if we trust their judgment enough to assign a conftown tag to someone.
This is directed at Kari: As a matter of fact, if the uncertainty of their conftowning came from their unwillingness to do so to the town at large and not from some uncertainty regarding whether or not their reveal will indeed conftown them, I have to question both the value of mentioning this conftown claim, and where they get the idea that Titus and/or Jeanne are both town(because if there is ANY uncertainty that either one isn't town, you should either not reveal whatever it is you have to reveal, or if it is best for town if you reveal it, you should reveal it to *everyone*.
Titus: I've noticed a willingness to back away from the LQ wagon, which is a slot you've been fairly solid in thinking is scum, and this willingness has come when the wagon has stalled. I wouldn't expect town you to be dissuaded from pushing for a scum reads lynch even if said lynch seemed extremely unlikely to happen, which makes it very surprising to see you do so for a slot which is 3 votes from lynch. Why are you backing off him?
Jeanne: You're welcome to direct questions at me, but I'm not going to be spending any time responding to you. There's too much paranoia in your posting and too much of a martyr attitude for me to draw anything significant with regards to your alignment from your posting, so I'm just not going to engage.
I'm not backing off of LQ. I still think LQ is fine to lynch. I was thinking you were town, but you're drawing too many parallells here where I'm starting to doubt again. Given the LQ wagon appears to be all town, but none of the people on the wagon are expressly townreading Klingon, I was hoping to work together. Considering you're shitting all over that, I'll just be over here doing me.
Kari's claim is exactly like Mastinas. Both said they were conftown on Day X. Kari's hasn't resolved yet, but this one has all the issues Mastina had. Yet, you were fine with that particular one. You're not now. I'm wondering whether the difference is because of your alignment or because you aren't going to be in the hood confirmed that "confirms" Kari.
If you thought the threadlock thing was scummy, where is the anger? You are fully capable of being pissed with me, ranting at me. You have a certain amount of fire. Where is it?
Why do you feel the way you do?
Why aren't you asking questions that could highlight alignment?
The anger's in the local sewage system. I'm getting over a nasty stomach flu. The fire's in my spine with an arthritis flareup. I don't have the energy to rant.
I am asking the right questions. They're working for me. I'm getting used to being on this side of the looking glass, things will begin to gel for me soon.
You didn't answer my question.
What question have I not answered?
How have your questions revealed anything about alignment?
