Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Varsoon]

"If I stay away from battle for a while, my hands ache with bloodlust."

-Valeria,

Suikoden I

VOTECOUNT 1.16

LicketyQuickety (5):

Ranger, Suzune, Jeanne11, Elbirn, Firekari

Ranger (2):

wgeurts, Blackest Magick

Jeanne11 (1):

LicketyQuickety

Bright (1):

Reasonably Rational

Firekari (1):

pistachi0n

Blackest Magick (1):

BRantz

Elbirn (1):

Bright

Reasonably Rational (1):

Titus

Not Voting (1):

Klingoncelt

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-11 18:55:00)

[LicketyQuickety]

OK, so stuff happened and I'm at L-1. Want me to claim now?

[wgeurts]

If you're so convinced why not accept?

Because I won't make a deal with someone who doesn't even bother to look at my case.

I did am I'm not convinced as I'll explain in a later post, if you're so certain he's scum my proposal only leads to your gain regardless of some case. Why the hesitation?

[wgeurts]

Am=and

[Reasonably Rational]

OK, so stuff happened and I'm at L-1. Want me to claim now?

You're L-3. Titus, don't waste your time.

-Cerb

[wgeurts]

Claiming now may help as let's face it, he's probably getting lynched anyway so doing it now rather than later could gain us some time.

[Reasonably Rational]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Hey Titus, wanna answer a question about Jeanne for me, since she's not here?

1) When were you invited into this neighborhood? Were you both there at the start of the game, or did she invite you at some point during the day?

-Cerb

[LicketyQuickety]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Reasonably Rational]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

[FireKari]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon?

-Cerb

To placate Jeanne11.
~Yukari

[LicketyQuickety]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

It was her push on me. It was not even logical. Look at 980 if you want to see what I was thinking then.

[Elbirn]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD

[LicketyQuickety]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD

Huh, not sure what to make of that.

[Elbirn]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD

Huh, not sure what to make of that.

Beasts of England, Beasts of Ireland,
Beasts of every land and clime,
Hearken to my joyful tidings
Of the Golden future time.
Soon or late the day is coming,
Tyrant Man shall be o'erthrown,
And the fruitful fields of England
Shall be trod by beasts alone.
Rings shall vanish from our noses,
And the harness from our back,
Bit and spur shall rust forever,
Cruel whips no more shall crack.
Riches more than mind can picture,
Wheat and barley, oats and hay,
Clover, beans, and mangel-wurzels
Shall be ours upon that day.
Bright will shine the fields of England,
Purer shall its waters be,
Sweeter yet shall blow its breezes
On the day that sets us free.
For that day we all must labour,
Though we die before it break;
Cows and horses, geese and turkeys,
All must toil for freedom's sake.
Beasts of England, Beasts of Ireland,
Beasts of every land and clime,
Heaten well, and spread my tidings
Of the Golden future time.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not what I was looking for.

[BRantz]

@Titus: So RR only mentions Klingon a few times, but they seem to have hydra dissonance about her. From what I can tell Cerb is lightly town reading her (from his post about her "content") and Drixx has a gut feeling scummy read. But the fence sitting about it is somewhat bothersome, you would think by now they would have decided which of their thought processes they wanted to pursue on her. And Klingon only really mentions RR to give them a flimsy town lean read. I think if we lynch either of them and that one flips scum then we should potentially pursue the other the next day, but I am not convinced that either should be on the block today. (I am null-town on RR right now, and null-scum on Kling, but my feelings toward both aren't very strong)

[Reasonably Rational]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

I dislike it for other reasons. Are you really suggesting that Lyncher (a wholly negative utility role to balance a powerful town) is the most reasonable thing you can think of that might be motivating Jeanne, LQ?

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon?

-Cerb

To placate Jeanne11.
~Yukari

That's a terrible reason to join a wagon. Even if you were in a game with an Innocent Child, that doesn't make them infallible. You still need to engage your own brain. You are essentially saying, ahead of time, "hey don't blame me if LQ flips scum ... I'm just on the wagon to placate someone who was vomiting posts into the thread like it was going out of style."

Furthermore, if you

were

going to vote just to placate someone, shouldn't you choose someone who

isn't

in the pile of people who, if town, scum will never kill and who is playing quite poorly (See too many posts to list individually, but just off the top of my head: threatening to rage quit, threatening to replace out, referring to some other game where she was right and asserting that must make her right here and telling us we're stupid if we don't just believe whatever she says without thinking about it, etc....) and therefore has to be lynched while we still know we have mislynches to spare. At this point, anyone who claims they are comfortable with Jeanne in M/LYLO is either lying or scum.

She is basically what Grapes was in Steven Universe. He had to be lynched and if he had accepted his lynch, the plan we laid out resulted in a town win the very next day. Instead he put his own personal whims above his win condition and changed the game state from (literally)

guaranteed town win

to back being contested, and ultimately that act handed Scum a win. Bad play by townies at a critical moment is something we're not willing to allow again.

So either Jeanne will stop the nonsense or she has to be lynched at some point early enough in the game that if she is actually town it won't cost us the game. One thing I am certain of is that the Jeanne we've seen posting today, if town and alive all the way to M/LYLO is lynchbait. She takes questioning of her reasoning super personally and seems to be legitimately emotionally hurt and offended if someone isn't town reading her. That's not something you want in M/LYLO


~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus: So RR only mentions Klingon a few times, but they seem to have hydra dissonance about her. From what I can tell Cerb is lightly town reading her (from his post about her "content") and Drixx has a gut feeling scummy read. But the fence sitting about it is somewhat bothersome, you would think by now they would have decided which of their thought processes they wanted to pursue on her. And Klingon only really mentions RR to give them a flimsy town lean read. I think if we lynch either of them and that one flips scum then we should potentially pursue the other the next day, but I am not convinced that either should be on the block today. (I am null-town on RR right now, and null-scum on Kling, but my feelings toward both aren't very strong)

This is a legitimately awful post, and you are way better than this BRantz. You know that neither Cerberus nor I place any stock in "gut" anything. A "gut" read is basically one of three things:

1.) Indigestion
2.) Some coincidental occurrences in a game which remind you of some other game. Rationally speaking, what happens in a prior game cannot tell you anything about the current game.
3.) Your brain has caught something you aren't fully consciously aware of. In this case, you have to go find it and then it's not "gut" anymore because you found the reason.


It's not exactly a secret that my feeling about KC is firmly in the #2 category. There's no reason I would push someone on day one for something like that. If it persists into day 2, then I start to look for possible clues that it might be a #3 situation, and what I find I share.

But you already knew that, which makes me question the motives of your post. You

won't

be lynching us today; I can guarantee you that. If there is a vigilante, please do us all a favor and don't try to be a hero vig. Shooting us would be disastrous for town and make you a zero vig. Say no to being zero vig.

Oh ... and you may want to redefined what you view as hydra dissonance. Cerberus and I talk to each other. A lot. You may want to view this hydra's topics. One of them is our Steven Universe PT. I don't think you'll want to read it all as it's roughly 65,000 words if you remove the timestamps and our names from the logged conversations. There's a difference about how open we are in sharing times when we aren't both sure of one thing or another and actual hydra dissonance where you see one head literally fighting the other and you see voting and unvoting and a whole messy spectacle.


Love anyway,
Drixx

[LicketyQuickety]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

I dislike it for other reasons. Are you really suggesting that Lyncher (a wholly negative utility role to balance a powerful town) is the most reasonable thing you can think of that might be motivating Jeanne, LQ?

I think it needs to be considered. I will say that what I have seen from them elsewhere on the site that the are a very emotionally charged person and the have done things a bit unnecessary in the past. I believe She has claimed Scum in her first post in one game and even gave away why her teammates were in a cryptic way in that post. She was Scum that game. That is the type of player we are dealing with. I know no one is strictly rational, but she is so far removed from having premise of a logical base that its a bit getting use to to say the least. That is why I am not trying to rule out anything at this point.

[Reasonably Rational]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

I dislike it for other reasons. Are you really suggesting that Lyncher (a wholly negative utility role to balance a powerful town) is the most reasonable thing you can think of that might be motivating Jeanne, LQ?

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon?

-Cerb

To placate Jeanne11.
~Yukari

That's a terrible reason to join a wagon. Even if you were in a game with an Innocent Child, that doesn't make them infallible. You still need to engage your own brain. You are essentially saying, ahead of time, "hey don't blame me if LQ flips

TOWN

... I'm just on the wagon to placate someone who was vomiting posts into the thread like it was going out of style."

Furthermore, if you

were

going to vote just to placate someone, shouldn't you choose someone who

isn't

in the pile of people who, if town, scum will never kill and who is playing quite poorly (See too many posts to list individually, but just off the top of my head: threatening to rage quit, threatening to replace out, referring to some other game where she was right and asserting that must make her right here and telling us we're stupid if we don't just believe whatever she says without thinking about it, etc....) and therefore has to be lynched while we still know we have mislynches to spare. At this point, anyone who claims they are comfortable with Jeanne in M/LYLO is either lying or scum.

She is basically what Grapes was in Steven Universe. He had to be lynched and if he had accepted his lynch, the plan we laid out resulted in a town win the very next day. Instead he put his own personal whims above his win condition and changed the game state from (literally)

guaranteed town win

to back being contested, and ultimately that act handed Scum a win. Bad play by townies at a critical moment is something we're not willing to allow again.

So either Jeanne will stop the nonsense or she has to be lynched at some point early enough in the game that if she is actually town it won't cost us the game. One thing I am certain of is that the Jeanne we've seen posting today, if town and alive all the way to M/LYLO is lynchbait. She takes questioning of her reasoning super personally and seems to be legitimately emotionally hurt and offended if someone isn't town reading her. That's not something you want in M/LYLO

~Drixx

Fixed that for myself. Posting at 3am after a work day is perhaps not the best idea.

[Drixx]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

I dislike it for other reasons. Are you really suggesting that Lyncher (a wholly negative utility role to balance a powerful town) is the most reasonable thing you can think of that might be motivating Jeanne, LQ?

I think it needs to be considered. I will say that what I have seen from them elsewhere on the site that the are a very emotionally charged person and the have done things a bit unnecessary in the past. I believe She has claimed Scum in her first post in one game and even gave away why her teammates were in a cryptic way in that post. She was Scum that game. That is the type of player we are dealing with. I know no one is strictly rational, but she is so far removed from having premise of a logical base that its a bit getting use to to say the least. That is why I am not trying to rule out anything at this point.

Why are you giving a fluff answer and not speaking to the main point that I raised? Do you agree or disagree with me that Jeanne cannot be allowed to live into M/LYLO?

[Reasonably Rational]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

I dislike it for other reasons. Are you really suggesting that Lyncher (a wholly negative utility role to balance a powerful town) is the most reasonable thing you can think of that might be motivating Jeanne, LQ?

I think it needs to be considered. I will say that what I have seen from them elsewhere on the site that the are a very emotionally charged person and the have done things a bit unnecessary in the past. I believe She has claimed Scum in her first post in one game and even gave away why her teammates were in a cryptic way in that post. She was Scum that game. That is the type of player we are dealing with. I know no one is strictly rational, but she is so far removed from having premise of a logical base that its a bit getting use to to say the least. That is why I am not trying to rule out anything at this point.

Why are you giving a fluff answer and not speaking to the main point that I raised? Do you agree or disagree with me that Jeanne cannot be allowed to live into M/LYLO?

Okay I'm hydra slipping now. Time for sleep. Picking it up for the Hydra ISO.

~Drixx

[LicketyQuickety]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

I'm having second thoughts about Jeanne11 being Scum. I was thinking recently that she could be lyncher or something, since that is what makes the most sense fmpov, but I don't know for sure. My read on her is that she doesn't make any sense. Its actually really hard to get a good read on, since she has been very poor at explaining her thought process. I mean that alone can be interpreted as many different things with different looks. I was thinking she was Scum because she was pushing me so much and I'm Town so she could be looking for a mis-lynch out of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I dislike this answer. The entirety of your reasoning was "Oh, she's pushing me and I'm town therefore shes's scum"? That's the same reasoning she has been using. Everybody is scum because people keep questioning her.

-Cerb

I dislike it for other reasons. Are you really suggesting that Lyncher (a wholly negative utility role to balance a powerful town) is the most reasonable thing you can think of that might be motivating Jeanne, LQ?

I think it needs to be considered. I will say that what I have seen from them elsewhere on the site that the are a very emotionally charged person and the have done things a bit unnecessary in the past. I believe She has claimed Scum in her first post in one game and even gave away why her teammates were in a cryptic way in that post. She was Scum that game. That is the type of player we are dealing with. I know no one is strictly rational, but she is so far removed from having premise of a logical base that its a bit getting use to to say the least. That is why I am not trying to rule out anything at this point.

Why are you giving a fluff answer and not speaking to the main point that I raised? Do you agree or disagree with me that Jeanne cannot be allowed to live into M/LYLO?

Okay I'm hydra slipping now. Time for sleep. Picking it up for the Hydra ISO.

~Drixx

This is a problem of perception more that anything I think Drizxx. I am giving my thoughts and while we may not see things completely the same I think it is a rational conclusion to draw that Jeanne11 shouldn't be in Lylo. However, I think there are more than one way to deal with this. One way is by vig. ofc that would mean having to use a vig on her and not someone else, but I think it would be better for Town that she not remain in the game until Lylo, yes.

[wgeurts]

Would the members of the LQ wagon please kindly state your reasons for being on said wagon? And, LQ, you haven't told me why Jeanne is scum to you.

-Cerb

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD

Are you more or less equal than us comrade?