Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[Ranger]

We should wagon Persival instead of Brunneis imo

I actually agree.
VOTE: Persivul.

Two words...first one begins with "Fuck"

Is the second one "off" or "you"? Makes the difference in my answer. ;)

[Ranger]

I find Brunneis to be incredibly, incredibly town and the only thing that would make me question it is ika disagreeing on it (we should have this sorted out when he gets off work or tomorrow if I'm asleep by then). my next two town reads are on Errant and makara/Persivul, but these are such weak reads I don't put any faith whatsoever in them at this juncture.

I really can't see how you could possibly reach this conclusion.

Gray, you've done basically nothing but pdodge this entire fucking game, and I sure as hell don't remember you doing this in EOSD.

I wasn't going to say anything, but GrayFox has been one of my strong candidates for being the serial killer. I don't think he's part of a scumteam, but I also did get a not-town vibe from him.

Ranger, there is a lot I dislike about your posts, but the blaringly obvious thing is that you were pushing Errant was scum due to the L-1 wagon on her when _it was an RVS wagon_.

Except it wasn't. Maybe it began IN the RVS, but that doesn't make it an RVS wagon. My vote was dead-serious, and pretty much most of the other votes were explicitly serious, too. The peak of the wagon was well after the RVS had ended, in fact.

I also pretty strongly disagree with your recent read on Brunneis (which came after a sizable wagon on Brunneis had developed and I'm pretty sure you refused to elaborate on it when asked?)

My scumread on Brunneis came even before The Fire Hermit's. Note my 91. Fire Hermit actually asked me

why

I was scumreading Brunneis. So no, my scumread on Brunneis did not come after a sizable wagon had formed; I was the first one to hold it the entire game and it has not faded. You're right that I haven't elaborated, but mostly that's laziness. I feel no need to explain myself, so...I don't.

It's a bad habit that I should break, Brunneis is no longer my preferred lynch, and since someone that's pretty much guaranteed to be town is asking (rather than the person in question themselves, Brunneis), I've got some motivation to try, so I'll see what I can do to break it at some point. Not right now, but in the near future. (Don't hold me to a date.)

[Persivul]

Persivul, I don't like your recent posts based around pushing Brunneis over having 3/4 town in their scum reads.

Note that it's also based on a number of conftown voting him (seemed to be the only trend in their votes other than the actual D1 lynch), and especially that gm was on him before she died. I have high respect for her reads, and not much has happened in D2 to change things.

what makes it coming from scum as opposed to misguided town? that said, I'm giving you a bit of leeway bc I'm assuming you haven't read everything yet, so I'd like if you could read the game, ISO Brunneis, etc. and give me updated reads based on actual play.

Yeah, I'll get to that. I tried to do that last night but as noted it was giving me a headache. It's not an easy ISO to digest.

[Persivul]

Persivul is making me more confident that my scumread on makara was right

Why? This game was dead (6 days left in phase and 7 of 10 people hadn't even bothered to vote) and I had no votes. As scum, why would I be motivated to come in with a splash and shake things up? Wouldn't scum in this situation just lay low?

[duppin]

Persivul, do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

[Persivul]

Persivul, do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

You and grayfox for inactivity. Scum like a quiet game, and I would imagine that a SK particularly wants to lay low.

It's difficult to get positive reads one way or the other in this game because everyone has been so lax.

In my experience it's common for top posters to take heat on D1 just because they're the ones putting up info to analyze, and with wifom and no flips people can convince themselves of most anything. When I more thoroughly review brunn's ISO I'm going to try to keep that in mind and not confbias it. My vote on him is because most everyone should have a vote somewhere at this point in phase, and sheeping the conftown trend is reasonable. But, if he got to L-1 I would unvote until I get through the ISO.

There's a lot of people in this game (including you) who are avoiding sticking their necks out and standing for something.

I just replaced in an you ask if I have other scum reads. You've been here the whole game - you should have a full list. Care to share it?

[duppin]

You've played with me before. You think me being inactive day 1 is a scum tell for me now all of a sudden? Interesting.

I've already expressed my interest in Brunneis and your slot. I find it rather weird how you seem to believe that top posters get heat and lurkers are scum, yet you choose to pursue one of the top posters. Your entrance was okay (not was strong as the last game we played though), but your scumread was basically just you saying you trust a dead persons read. I'm not entirely sure whether you actually scumread Brunneis or you were just sheeping.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Maxwell, I think some of your recent posts have looked kinda town, but I strongly dislike your D1 play, namely the way you were perpetuating the Trivium/Brunneis shitfight that was going on. did you not have any other major scum reads? if I missed one, link please.

I'm on my phone right now, but if you ISO me and ctrl-f 'Errant' you should be able to see how I feel about her. I can grab links later though if you need them.
Errant was kind of a low-key scumread for most of the game. I've never really liked her posting when she's been around, but my interest in her was overshadowed by Trivium and Brunneis. I thought both of them were more worth looking at, especially since other people seemed to be seeing what I was seeing.
It was probably also what someone said earlier... Errant wasn't posting as much so there was less material.

Oh, well, yes.
We should be lynching out of our VTs.
I'd be cool with a GrayFox lynch.
Otherwise, I'd toss up between Errant, Makara, and Maxwell.
In fact, I actually think this is Maxwell's scum-game, but I'm not a great authority there.
Hum-ho.

Varsoon is one of the few players in this game who knows my meta at all, I think. Well, ika too. Though only my scum games, as I don't have a lot of town games and the ones that I do haven't gone very well for me.

Yeah, that and him falling away from having game presence once things really got rolling in town's favor.
I do agree that it's worth looking over ISOs and giving these players a chance to get into the game.

Did you mean to type 'in scum's favour'? But also, I don't think I've been falling away? I've been posting whenever I have time and I'm pretty happy that I've kept my activity up, which is often a problem for me, as you know. Like I said earlier you've really only seen my scum game.

We should wagon Persival instead of Brunneis imo

I actually agree.
VOTE: Persivul.

I'm kind of embarrassed about my mistake yesterday, since apparently it was obvious to everyone except me that Persivul was not being serious. The fact that you just quoted my 'we should wagon Pers' line instead of the thing that made me come to that conclusion makes me wonder about what you thought. Did you disagree with my point but just like the fact that I scumread Pers? Do you agree that his vote at least was out of place?

Gonna wait for some replies to this, but I already know I'm not voting Brunneis.

PEDIT, duppin: Persivul's essentially said he's just sheeping, his vote was based entirely on votes and scumreads of dead or conftown players. I'm not defending that, I don't really agree with the practice (or the read, but that's another matter), but you're restating the obvious here. The sentiment against Pers I understand, though.

[Persivul]

You've played with me before. You think me being inactive day 1 is a scum tell for me now all of a sudden? Interesting.

Can you point to the game we played together in which you got multiple prods and were almost force replaced?

I've already expressed my interest in Brunneis and your slot.

I know. Now I'm asking you for a full reads list, and you're dodging.

I find it rather weird how you seem to believe that top posters get heat and lurkers are scum, yet you choose to pursue one of the top posters. Your entrance was okay (not was strong as the last game we played though), but your scumread was basically just you saying you trust a dead persons read. I'm not entirely sure whether you actually scumread Brunneis or you were just sheeping.

How are you unsure of that? What part of this didn't you understand?

When I more thoroughly review brunn's ISO I'm going to try to keep that in mind and not confbias it. My vote on him is because most everyone should have a vote somewhere at this point in phase, and sheeping the conftown trend is reasonable. But, if he got to L-1 I would unvote until I get through the ISO.

But now you've given me something more solid. Until I review brunn's ISO and/or you put up a full reads list that looks good:

VOTE: duppin

[Persivul]

I'm kind of embarrassed about my mistake yesterday, since apparently it was obvious to everyone except me that Persivul was not being serious. The fact that you just quoted my 'we should wagon Pers' line instead of the thing that made me come to that conclusion makes me wonder about what you thought. Did you disagree with my point but just like the fact that I scumread Pers? Do you agree that his vote at least was out of place?

Gonna wait for some replies to this, but I already know I'm not voting Brunneis.

PEDIT, duppin: Persivul's essentially said he's just sheeping, his vote was based entirely on votes and scumreads of dead or conftown players. I'm not defending that, I don't really agree with the practice (or the read, but that's another matter), but you're restating the obvious here. The sentiment against Pers I understand, though.

Better check your butt for splinters, the way you're sitting on that fence...

[duppin]

Persivul, I only got one prod this game.

Your play is very different compared to the last time we played, but I can't tell if it is because you took a break or because you're scum. You know I never give a full read list this early in the game. You can ask me about someone if you wish to.
I'm very curious though Persivul. Why do you think I am scum?

[Persivul]

Persivul, I only got one prod this game.

Per mod in 572 you've had 3. Is mod mistaken or are you lying? And that's 3 on top of a VLA.

Again, have I played with you in a game with this severity of inactivity?
If not, why shouldn't I find it suspicious?

Your play is very different compared to the last time we played, but I can't tell if it is because you took a break or because you're scum. You know I never give a full read list this early in the game. You can ask me about someone if you wish to.
I'm very curious though Persivul. Why do you think I am scum?

- Inactivity, refusal to give a reads list
- Your excuse for the above, which is basically

I always play scummy, so my scumminess here doesn't mean anything

. That's a reason for a vote on policy. I'm not bound to consider meta. If we let people develop a scummy meta and then were bound by it, we could never lynch such players.
- Pretending you don't understand a position which I made clear (also noted by max)
- Apparently lying about the number of prods you got

[Ika Musume]

let's see if I can post

[Persivul]

We should wagon Persival instead of Brunneis imo

I actually agree.
VOTE: Persivul.

Two words...first one begins with "Fuck"

Is the second one "off" or "you"? Makes the difference in my answer.

I was going with

you

, but let's check with the judges...

DING DING DING

Off

is also acceptable. Take your choice!

[duppin]

Persivul, if you read the whole thread (I'm not blaming you, you just replaced in, just saying), the mod was mistaken. He only prodded me once.

You've played with me before. I am hardly ever active, especially not day 1. In day 2 I was only active because you failed to see me soft claiming cop.

- Anyway, what I am telling you is that inactivity is not a scumtell for me, and I am surprised you would claim it is. I do not refuse to give a read list, you can ask me about anyone if you wish to. I am simply stating that I never give out a full read list this early in the game, since I usually pursue one world at a time and always have, that's why I always go for one target at a time and I revaluate all the time.
- My excuse is not that "I always play scummy", I do not think my play is scummy at all. I had a lot of work during day 1 which led to inacitivity, but that wasn't scummy. I haven't lurked day 2.
- The pretending thing is such a crappy read. Really? Not even going to comment on that.
- Still not lying about the prods.

So basically you got nothing. You think I am scum for being inactive (day 1), which is hardly a scum tell for me but I can accept it. I'm just surprised you would point it out since we've played it before, but I agree meta shouldn't matter (you do realise you were the one spamming your meta in the last game we played, so I am glad you finally realise).

[duppin]

Eh and by "active" I mean posting a shit ton, which I normally never do.

[Persivul]

In day 2 I was only active because you failed to see me soft claiming cop.

Post link to the soft claim please.

[Ika Musume]

My scumread on Brunneis came even before The Fire Hermit's. Note my 91. Fire Hermit actually asked me why I was scumreading Brunneis. So no, my scumread on Brunneis did not come after a sizable wagon had formed; I was the first one to hold it the entire game and it has not faded. You're right that I haven't elaborated, but mostly that's laziness. I feel no need to explain myself, so...I don't.

It's a bad habit that I should break, Brunneis is no longer my preferred lynch, and since someone that's pretty much guaranteed to be town is asking (rather than the person in question themselves, Brunneis), I've got some motivation to try, so I'll see what I can do to break it at some point. Not right now, but in the near future. (Don't hold me to a date.)

even if you supposedly had a scum read at that point, you did literally nothing to push it. I'm looking through it again and you did actually nothing to explain said read or try to pressure them throughout the entire D1. so no, that doesn't really count as a "scum read".

I also really strongly disagree with your mentality of "a lot of people in this game have you as a scum read, so you're getting lynched today". I think scum are significantly more likely to say things like that than town are. the town approach in that kind of situation would have been to try and convince other people to vote along with you in some way, either by laying out actual reasons for Brunneis being scum or even something along the lines of "will you wagon Brunneis with me"/"what is your read on Brunneis" if you don't want to elaborate on it. but you didn't do this, you basically said Brunneis was getting lynched because a lot of people were scum reading him. I tend to make appeals like that when I'm scum when I'm looking for an easy way to push a consensus read in a way where no one will question it.

this is all more so the case when Brunneis only has like 3 votes - wagons can easily rise/fall in this time. it was no way set in stone Brunneis is the lynch and you were claiming it was.

I don't think you really care about trying to push the Brunneis wagon through here. what I'm seeing here is you jumping on the Brunneis wagon when it gained momentum and backing off when it stopped.

[Ika Musume]

duppin, I want your reads on everyone in the game. doesn't matter if you have strong reads or not, just give reads on _everyone_.

you've hardly taken any stances at all this game, and you being inactive has nothing to do with that

[Ika Musume]

I really can't see how you could possibly reach this conclusion.

I'll get to this this evening btw.

[Ika Musume]

PEDIT: Varsoon, I get that you're annoyed, but please keep posting.

I agree though, massclaim is our best option. I'm not seeing a reason to think that Varsoon is scum, this setup (open setups in general) make fakeclaiming dangerous, and asking for a mass claim on top of that would be over the top.

I'd suggest we do a methodical mass claim lead by the IC, but considering activity in this game it would reeaallyyy drag things out, and I think damage the atmosphere further.

I'm a VT.

No, I think you DO have a reason to be less vague, Ranger. And: I don't like this 'I'll prove I won't vote you at L-1." Who are you trying to prove this to, exactly? Brunneis is the one accusing you, yet you're saying you'll prove it to them. Why do you feel the need to prove yourself to scum? (You're very confident about them being scum)

I don't like your recent exchanges with Brunneis. I feel like you're trying to prove you're not dismissing them by interacting, but all I'm seeing is a weird conversation between you two that is just a series of 'no, you're interpreting this thing wrong' from both sides.

UNVOTE:

Who still needs to claim? Let's finish this up.

Oh, and Duppin: Whether or not you found Brunneis scummy was not obvious, which is why I had to ask.

^ I like all of these posts. free town points to the first person who sees what I'm seeing here.

[Ika Musume]

I wasn't going to say anything, but GrayFox has been one of my strong candidates for being the serial killer. I don't think he's part of a scumteam, but I also did get a not-town vibe from him.

why do you say he's not part of a scum team? tbh, if I consider him being scum, I would say if he was SK he'd be likely to be doing more legitimate scum hunting than he's doing here.

the way he's lurkfucking the hell out of the game makes me think he's mafia having trouble fabricating viable content, not an SK who'd be more than able to.

[duppin]

In day 2 I was only active because you failed to see me soft claiming cop.

Post link to the soft claim please.

I was referring to the last game we played.

duppin, I want your reads on everyone in the game. doesn't matter if you have strong reads or not, just give reads on _everyone_.

you've hardly taken any stances at all this game, and you being inactive has nothing to do with that

Unfortunately you won't get anything. Me giving you a full read list now is useless, as it is mostly consist of a shit ton of null reads between the VT claims that will most likely change when we get more flips or something else occurs. I've given you my scum reads, and nothing has made me reconsider them yet.
I believe there is at least one scum between Brunneis and Persivul's slot, I don't believe both of them are scum though. I believe all of the TPR roleclaims for obvious reasons.
I can give you a world where someone else is scum, but at the moment I am more inclined to go for this.

This has nothing to do with me being antitown, it's simply a case of me not bothering to spam null reads. I dislike early game because I do not have a lot to work with, so eventually you'll get way more from me as the games goes on, unless I die that is.

[Persivul]

[quote="In post 722, duppin"]
I was referring to the last game we played.
[quote]
Maybe some people accept self meta, but I'm not one of them.

[duppin]

Persivul, neither do I. But you know that's reallyyy funny coming from you. In that game you kept linking to your previous games.