Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[duppin]

And if Brunneis had 3 towns voting on them. Alright forget the typos, you get the point.

[Brunneis]

Hi, just wanted to check in to say that I am blatantly and unabashedly breaking my promise of a full and complete ISO analysis in 4 hours because family friends are visiting and I must spend time with them, because society has rules.
That being said, I read your whole post, Brunneis, and I will respond to it. But I think it's pretty good.
That also being said, hope you had a nice birthday.

Happy Birthday, Brunnies.
At this point, I'm really trying to figure out if GreyFoxx is part of the scum team being offered up as a sacrifice or just the weakest link in the two town out of six player pool.

Oh yes, I did have a nice birthday! Thank you! Today I'm helping host a party and I'll be partially unavailable today.

But yeah - Errant, looking forward to your response.

Varsoon - stated before, I'm closer to thinking Grey is scum than the former.

What do you think about Duppin, though?

Taly:

1. what didn't you like about Persivul's entrance?

2. I'm conftown, so you shouldn't have to worry about forming a read on me.

1)

Few things - keep in mind he's closer to town to me atm

650 - He goes from saying that massclaiming doesn't make sense to saying "IS IT MY TURN?" - this looks a little backwards; but I can give it a pass since it's just set-up, plus him asking questions suggest town motivation in wanting to learn more in retrospect.

659 >>> This and other posts as you ISO him - is just more set-up spec - we're trying to find scum here, set-up speccing could help but we already have like 3 people doing it already and it's getting very taxing...

661 - The vote was bad even if it wasn't very serious; however, I did like the light-hearted tone, but meh...

675 >>> His entire vote is based on the possibilities of conftown being on me - 2 people have already stated something like this and given in depth thoughts, but he throws it on me as being the most likely possibility. It just looked like he was sheeping.

These are the main posts, it just either didn't provide much anything new, or it just felt weird when reading it.

2)

I may have overlooked that, could you link the post please?

Back up a moment,

When have I EVER ignored Trivium?

Most of my posts involved Trivium in some form, and I even had a back in forth with him.

108 - I made my opinion on his stance.
Or 258 - Where I argued against his weak argument AND engaged with him.
The same thing in 288...
And 373 - But he never really answered to me in these posts.

No offense, but did you even read what we were talking about?
We were talking about how my read changed on you. My initial read were that you were scum buddies, but then I changed my opinion later, BECAUSE of the posts you just linked. So really?
And yes you did mention him in 108, but you didn't say much. I was biased yes, but at that time it felt more like a scum just wanting to get a little post in on his buddy. You didn't really add pressure to him and overall your comment was pretty harmless.
The rest of your posts are exactly why I changed my read on you guys being scum buddies.

About the part about him not answering anyone, I do not see how that is relevant. The only reason I mentioned it, was because when I had to choose between you and Trivium I went for Trivium since you actually responded to me while he didn't.

Yeah, I knew you were talking about how you once thought I was scumbuddies with Trivium - that's not what I'm talking about.

You said that I CHOSE to ignore Trivium when most of my D1 posts involved him in some form or matter.

Don't assume that I don't know what you're talking about, just don't misrep and say that I deliberately ignored him. 727

In the case that I may have misinterpreted what you said, why are you saying that my earliest post on him was "harmless?" This just seems reactive.

Brunneis' heads are both agreed on Duppin, Errant, and Gray, not necessarily in that order, as Scum.

Persival, Maxwell, and Ranger we see as Null or Town, but we aren't in full agreement.

If you do not mind me asking Kling, what changed your mind? I want Kling to respond, not you Taly.

Um....

Kling did make that post.

And Kling did sign herself -_-

My reads other then what I quoted to you weren't a direct answer to you. I'm not voicing my thoughts and opinions in accordance to what you want to hear, sorry.

Also since it seems like no one has actually brought it up, I guess I might as well do it.

This was the train on Brunneis 12 hours before the deadline day 1.

Brunneis - GrayFoxxxx,

The Fire Hermit

,

Trivium

,

goodmorning

.

That is 3 confirmed town.

Then makara (Persivul's slot) voted on Trivium (even though Brunneis was the leading train at that point), because he found Brunneis to be more scummy.
And then I did pretty much the exact same thing, but since I know I am town, I believe this is yet another reason to look at makara. I also do not believe it would make sense for me to be scumpartners with Brunneis, but I'm obviously biased.

If Brunneis is truly town, perhaps GrayFoxxxx is worth looking into, but I doubt Brunneis wouldn't get lynched day 1 if they had 4 towns voting on them - I believe scum would rather kill off them than Trivium if that was the case to be honest.

I'm going to vote on either Brunneis or Persivul, and I do believe there is a chance both of them are scum. If you'd rather mislynch me, then go ahead. Voting on me for 'pressure' will gain you nothing at all, since I already claimed and I am town so it's not like I am going to slip.

Wow, more of the same thing I've read these past 10 pages. "Conftown is on Brunneis so he's most likely scum."

You say that if I were truly town, then Gray is worth looking into as scum - but then you throw that away and say you'd rather vote me or Persivul?

You then talk about how - "If I had 4 town votes, then scum would just lynch me over Trivium"

Are you saying that Gray is scum - since he isn't an explained townvote in your eyes - and that the other 3 were just conftown - and that's why scum didn't lynch me - because no other town voted for me?

But you said you didn't want to vote Gray even though he wasn't conftown?

What the hell am I reading? Plus, where is your vote? Are you waiting for something?

1)

Either you're blatantly ignoring looking into Gray and would rather just sheep a popular vote over reasons already explained

2)

Or you just slipped all over the damn place and Gray may just be your scumbuddy.

What's even worse; is that you dismiss EVERYONES suspicion and votes on you as "pressure", but no, it sounds like you're trying to make it seem as if you're conftown and nobody can touch you as long as you say whatever other people want to hear.

Either are deserving of a vote, I'd like to hear something other than a defense or minimization of someone elses conviction.

VOTE: duppin

[The Fire Hermit]

Hurry up and kill this. She has already given us her claim and her reads. We saw the way Trivium flipped. No way are we going anyway else today.

[duppin]

I can't tell if you are serious Taly. I'm not even trying to be rude, but it seems like you fail to understand anything I have said.

Yeah, I knew you were talking about how you once thought I was scumbuddies with Trivium - that's not what I'm talking about.

You said that I CHOSE to ignore Trivium when most of my D1 posts involved him in some form or matter.

Don't assume that I don't know what you're talking about, just don't misrep and say that I deliberately ignored him.

First of all, how difficult is it to understand, that my initial read when the game began was that you were scum buddies, alright?

In the very beginning both of you were engaged by several people, yet you choose to ignore each other, which I thought was unlike you since you chose to call out lurkers. Kling also usually comments on whatever happens on day 1.
You made a comment in 108 after this, but it didn't mean much to me. It was a harmless comment, as in it didn't add pressure nor did you actually take a stance on whether you thought he was scummy or not. I already stated that I was already living in the world of you two being scum buddies so I may have been biased.

Then later when I returned to the game you had a back and forth with Trivium, and I changed my read.
And misrep? Are you for real? I changed my read - So how is this misrepping? That wouldn't even make sense. What possible motive would I have for that? I mean me claiming that you ignored Trivium in the beginning of the game is irrelevant. We know you aren't scum buddies now, so it doesn't even matter.

Um....

Kling did make that post.

And Kling did sign herself -_-

[/quote]

Um, yeah I know? What's your point? I still want her to explain why she changed her mind.

Wow, more of the same thing I've read these past 10 pages. "Conftown is on Brunneis so he's most likely scum."

You say that if I were truly town, then Gray is worth looking into as scum - but then you throw that away and say you'd rather vote me or Persivul?

You then talk about how - "If I had 4 town votes, then scum would just lynch me over Trivium"

Are you saying that Gray is scum - since he isn't an explained townvote in your eyes - and that the other 3 were just conftown - and that's why scum didn't lynch me - because no other town voted for me?

But you said you didn't want to vote Gray even though he wasn't conftown?

What the hell am I reading? Plus, where is your vote? Are you waiting for something?

1)

Either you're blatantly ignoring looking into Gray and would rather just sheep a popular vote over reasons already explained

2)

Or you just slipped all over the damn place and Gray may just be your scumbuddy.

What's even worse; is that you dismiss EVERYONES suspicion and votes on you as "pressure", but no, it sounds like you're trying to make it seem as if you're conftown and nobody can touch you as long as you say whatever other people want to hear.

Either are deserving of a vote, I'd like to hear something other than a defense or minimization of someone elses conviction.

VOTE: duppin

This doesn't even make sense. I want to focus on you and Persivul for now because I think you are scummy, but if you are town I believe GrayFoxxxx is worth looking into. How am I sheeping a popular vote, when I've been calling you suspicious pretty much all game. Speaking about sheeping a popular vote, isn't that pretty much what you are doing now?

Hermit's vote was obviously meant as pressure, and how the hell am I trying to make it seem like I am confirmed town? I'd rather speak with Kling because I honestly don't get half of what you're saying. This is nonsense.

[duppin]

Hurry up and kill this. She has already given us her claim and her reads. We saw the way Trivium flipped. No way are we going anyway else today.

Your vote is on me though.

[The Fire Hermit]

Also firebringer, I am changing this

VOTE: Brunneis

That is playing directly into scum hands.

[The Fire Hermit]

Win is simple. It is Brunneis, Persivul (Makara), and Errantabola. Errant could be a sk, but I am pretty confident all three of them are scum in one way or another. Moreso with Brunneis and Persivul.

There posts are just so incredibly easy to see through. Not to mention all the other inrefutable arguments brought up against that slot.

[Varsoon]

The whole 'Brunneis wagon is super town-lead' could be an indicator that Brunneis is scum, although my hesitance would be that an SK wagon would more likely have scum on it and if we can lynch the SK today, that'd be super great.

[Ika Musume]

"brunneis wagon is town led" arguments are ridiculously awful

all town on town wagons are in no way rare, especially in a mini game and _especially_ given Trivium (the counterwagon) was also a town wagon

if this goes through and Brunneis is town, I would probably power lynch my way through anyone pushing that argument

[Persivul]

The whole 'Brunneis wagon is super town-lead' could be an indicator that Brunneis is scum, although my hesitance would be that an SK wagon would more likely have scum on it and if we can lynch the SK today, that'd be super great.

Why would an SK wagon be more likely to have scum on it?

[Ika Musume]

This was the train on Brunneis 12 hours before the deadline day 1.

Brunneis - GrayFoxxxx,

The Fire Hermit

,

Trivium

,

goodmorning

.

That is 3 confirmed town.

if anything, this is more an indicator of grayfoxx being scum than Brunneis being scum, but even then, I wouldn't put any stock in it.

it is scummy as fuck that you're conveniently ignoring the grayfoxx-scum explanation and twisting it as a reason to push the main wagon.

[Varsoon]

@Persivul: Because scum don't know who the SK is. Scum are more likely to vote for who they think is town rather than pile on/bus themselves early.

@Ika: I do agree, when I first saw that post by duppin, I felt that it was a good indicator of GrayFoxxxx scum rather than Brunneis scum.
It's the sort of play I would do as scum to try to levy a lynch on someone outside of my team. If anything, I feel that it's indicative of Duppin/GreyFox scum.

[Ika Musume]

In day 2 I was only active because you failed to see me soft claiming cop.

Post link to the soft claim please.

Persivul, where were you going with this?

[Ika Musume]

@Ika: I do agree, when I first saw that post by duppin, I felt that it was a good indicator of GrayFoxxxx scum rather than Brunneis scum.
It's the sort of play I would do as scum to try to levy a lynch on someone outside of my team. If anything, I feel that it's indicative of Duppin/GreyFox scum.

could easily see this. I'll have more to say this afternoon when I have time to actually sit down with the game.

[Persivul]

Notes on ika iso:

ika-ika: Hate the guess why I did that crap, ironic that it’s regarding a gm vote because she does that too. Hate ika being too lazy to attempt to spell and to speak in something resembling real sentences – that and his tendency to lurk is why I give him a policy vote. What's the motivation for supposedly playing to scum meta intentionally? The only reason I see is that he's really scum and is making a preemptive excuse for future scumminess. Voted on triv and gave no reasoning.

ika-pie: Good entrance - bucks the trend and says Brunn is incredibly town – this reads very town, as scum wouldn’t be so obvious if trying to help a buddy. Has enough sense to give me some leeway as a replacement when other people are jumping on me. Like the call out on lurkers, but didn't like the duppin unvote - you didn't move to another player and he wasn't in any danger of a lynch, so why bother unvoting? There's too few people voting for this point in phase. Aside from that, overall seems to be doing solid scumhunting.

Conclusion: Here's the difficult part. As separate players, I would put ika in scum and pie in lean town. I'd feel better about the slot if pie's stuff came first and ika's second. Makes me wonder if pie saw the problem with ika's alleged intentional scumminess and lack of explanation and is purposely towning it up for cover.

Null for now.

[duppin]

He was going nowhere Ika, he just thought I was talking about this game.

Anyway ika, I'm not ignoring the GrayFoxxx explanation, I said that if Brunneis is town then GrayFoxxx is most likely scum but I believe that Brunneis is scum so I do not know why you would expect me to go for GrayFoxxx.

[Persivul]

In day 2 I was only active because you failed to see me soft claiming cop.

Post link to the soft claim please.

Persivul, where were you going with this?

Since he claimed VT a soft cop claim in this game would require explanation. I wanted to see if it came before or after his VT claim. But, he was referring to a game we previously played. He sometimes seems more interested in talking about that one than in talking about the game at hand. That's part of why I scum read him.

What's ika's purpose in supposedly intentionally playing his scum meta? If another player claimed that, would you be suspicious?

[Persivul]

Kinda? I'm 100% doing ym scum meta intentionaly i was waiting for ppl to realzie it.

What specifically did you do that you feel is part of your scum meta?

Why did you intentionally play your scum meta?

[GrayFoxxxx]

@brunn

Reread the specific post regarding Ranger.

Why wouldn't I keep my vote on you? I think you're scum. I'm not as confident in you being scum recently , because your last few posts look a little better. But you have alot of pressure on you, so it's kind of forced content.

Ide like to hear back from ranger, as he is the only other person I would be comfortable voting right now.

[Ika Musume]

so ika is back time ot read up

[Ika Musume]

i really dont get how people are mistaken me for pie....

also persival is scum

[Errantparabola]

Not pleased with the quick deterioration of the Errant wagon, and my wagon taking a great leap. (Especially without a main explanation as to why.) It makes me think that AT LEAST ONE of the scum are on my wagon

When you said this, did you mean the events to be correlated?
I might have accidentally interpreted you to be saying that if you didn't mean that because of what Ranger's been saying.

You're saying we both can't be town - because scum wouldn't need to push me if they wanted to mislynch you?

Are you saying that either:
A) I somehow deliberately put a wagon on myself as scum
B) Scum bussed their partner (me) when you were nearing L-1
C) You're not town because you're insinuating that I'm not scum, and that whoever wasn't conftown on my wagon, is most likely scumbuddies?
D) We are both town, and everything else in C still applies

I think what I'm saying is that our D1 wagons were probably controlled by different alignments.
I'm confusing myself a bit here.
I think here's what happens.
If I'm town and you're scum, then either scum or town was pushing my wagon and your posting made town move off of me and go to you.
If I'm town and you're town, then scum couldn't have been pushing both wagons because there would be no reason to establish a counterwagon to a mislynch.
Now that I think about it more, it doesn't seem alignment indicative to me.

Sorry, but where was this "anti-massclaiming speech" from? Originally, my other head launched the vote on Varsoon on the idea that he wasn't being truthful, I wasn't entirely familiar with the set-up so I continued to question the idea of anti-massclaiming.

No time in here was I solely against massclaiming - The most was that I questioned Varsoons word and didn't want to go through claiming as I already did in D1. Yes, I didn't like the idea of going on setup theory and massclaiming at that point, but that doesn't mean I tried to prevent it.

Okay so I see two points here. 1st, I think it's pretty clear that not even scum would be solely against massclaiming because massclaiming gave us 4 scum in a lynchpool of 6- which is a pretty good position for town. So trying to outright prevent that would be sticking your neck out a bit too far.
My question to you is: Do you think that we are in a better position now that massclaiming has happened?

[Quaroath]

Vote Count 2.5

One two three
Don't let the pee
Run over your knee
And feed that tree!

Duppin – (3) Persivul, Ika Musume, Brunneis
Brunneis – (2) GrayFoxxxx, The Fire Hermit
Persivul – (1) Ranger
Not voting - (4) duppin, Errantparabola, Varsoon, MaxwellPuckett

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2015-11-11 23:59:59)

[Ranger]

Do you agree that his vote at least was out of place?

Serious or not, it doesn't matter. Yes. That vote was out of place. It was forced and awkward.

I'm looking through it again and you did actually nothing to explain said read or try to pressure them throughout the entire D1. so no, that doesn't really count as a "scum read".

I don't do pushes that often. Lazy. That in no manner invalidates the reads existence.

I also really strongly disagree with your mentality of "a lot of people in this game have you as a scum read, so you're getting lynched today". I think scum are significantly more likely to say things like that than town are.

Well, tough. My experience is the opposite.

the town approach in that kind of situation would have been to try and convince other people to vote along with you in some way, either by laying out actual reasons for Brunneis being scum or even something along the lines of "will you wagon Brunneis with me"/"what is your read on Brunneis" if you don't want to elaborate on it.

As far as I knew, at the time, Brunneis was a universal scumread.

Universal

.

Why would I be asking about things I had taken for granted as happening? I wouldn't ask about a read I already knew (or 'knew') they held; that'd be redundant. I wouldn't ask them to vote a player they already were going to; that would also be redundant and counter-productive given massclaim hadn't finished yet.

I don't think you really care about trying to push the Brunneis wagon through here.

Explicitly so, yes. Where did I give you the impression I cared about trying to push the Brunneis wagon through? Because I flat-out don't.

why do you say he's not part of a scum team?

Because that's what my read is. I don't think he's part of the scumteam. I do think he could be the serial killer. I'm not inclined to go on SK-hunts, though, which is one of the reasons I was hesitant to bring up the read at all.

[Ranger]

Why so secretive about the reads you have?

I'm not secretive about reads I hold at all. It's reasons that I like to hold back on. The later I give them, the better in my experience.

Persival, Maxwell, and Ranger we see as Null or Town, but we aren't in full agreement.

What.
To all of these, really, but especially me.

This makes no sense. All three of these (possible exception, Maxwell; I'd have to check) were in your scum pool.

I also really hate this duppin wagon. Of all the names that could be scum, he is the least likely by far.