Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[pieguyn]

The conversation between the two of them looks entirely fabricated to me. I despise appeals to emotion. I'm also concerned that the Pie's reason for voting is 'bias' because that bias is not explained, while the contrast between the temp-vote on Sakura and the vote on me is not.

can you elaborate more on which parts look fabricated and why?

(ftr I'm asking bc this could potentially be an improvement over your first post)

[Shadoweh]

I get the feeling you're not reading me as town because we're reading people like, completely opposite.
I don't see Bork as being careful at all, just deliberate, he's a strong enough townread I'd fight to save him r/n.
You're basically saying he's scum for typing his thought processes in his posts. Then again I disagree with you thinking #65 is weird because I think the exact same thing, I have weird vote mechanics and I expect the scum to also have them. It wouldn't make sense if they don't. It's a way of sharing information without being explicit. You basically dislike him because he's sharing helpful information.
I've got a good townread on Relentless Jesus too from his post up there. Kinda think Sky P is weird for saying 'I'm okay with it except for this thing I'm not okay with' and wondering if that means he's okay with it or not.

Also tbh I think the discussion on whether muffin's role is town/scum has gone past the usefulness horizon, he's not getting lynched today regardless.

[Shadoweh]

(Addressed to muffin-sempai btw)

[pieguyn]

@GuyInFreezer

Are you Yuyuko?

I was gonna post Border of Extacy here but FG told me I couldn't. how boring :<

[Sakura Hana]

Shadoweh, do you intend to ever answer the question about how i am obvtown?

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh I'm not Yuyuko.

I'm asking for Yukari reason though.
(TBH ppl should know why)

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.4

• notscience [
  1
  ] -
  
• pieguyn [
  3
  ] - Feysal, borkjerfkin
  
• Sakura Hana [1] - thdgkdms
  
• zMuffinMan [
  -3
  ] - Katsuki
  
• Shadoweh [1] - Kilgamayan
  
• Sky_Paladin [1] - pieguyn
  
• The_Relentless [0] -
  
• GuyInFreezer [0] -
  
• SXTLHGaiden [0] -
  
• Katsuki [1] - Sakura Hana
  
• Kagami [0] -
  
• Feysal [1] - Sky_Paladin
  
• borkjerfkin [0] -
  
• thdgkdms [1] - Chocola
  
• Kilgamayan [
  3
  ] -
  
• Chocola [1] - The_Relentless

Not Voting [6]

- notscience, Shadoweh, GuyInFreezer, SXTLHGaiden, Kagami, zMuffinMan

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch

.

Deadline is November 15, 2015, at 2 PM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2015-11-15 16:00:00)

Notes:

• You cannot target Katsuki with spellcards in this Day Phase, unless your vote is on Katsuki.
  
• The main thread will remain open in the coming Night Phase.

[zMuffinMan]

It wouldn't make sense if they don't.

why not

[zMuffinMan]

You basically dislike him because he's sharing helpful information

no, that entirely misses the point

[zMuffinMan]

he's a strong enough townread I'd fight to save him

what exactly has he done that you agree with or think is town?

don't be vague when you answer please

[zMuffinMan]

does anyone think it's likely both shadoweh and bork are town? and, if so, i would like to hear who your four most likely scum picks are. tia

[zMuffinMan]

he has implied lynching Sakura would be impossible this day phase

that has nothing to do with me or my role

By the way, I've seen more posts from Gaiden this game than I've ever seen from him in the other games combined. I've never seen scum!Gaiden though. Is this meaningful?

i don't think the post count itself is meaningful

[borkjerfkin]

doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me from the perspective that you're town considering the possibility that i'm scum

I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to say with that assertion, so:

I was saying that the particular point I was making there, (re: why your role in a game like this doesn't mean what Sakura says it means), is a point that I think is correct theorywise, but that's all it was and I didn't expect it to be the focal point that it turned out to be, and I'm not raising my eyebrows that I'm one of a small group you aren't townreading as a result (although at this point I'm frustrated that I'm wasting all my fucking time getting hamstringed into explaining something I don't think needs explaining or is that germane to solving the game)

i don't really think a lot of the way you're going about assessing things so far is coming from a town mindset. mostly because of the way you're phrasing things and the nuances in the things you're saying

Okay? You're wrong, that's a really nebulous accusation, and I don't know what to say that's going to rectify that perception; watch me and I'll watch you watching me

[SXTLHGaiden]

you know, after rereading the game, i think that something i said was taken as "you also have that ability"
anywho,
VOTE: Gaiden
now time to wait for a vc...

[SXTLHGaiden]

oh and GiF-ycat, my party crashing is an ability not a spellcard.

[borkjerfkin]

yes - what you're doing here looks similar to the kind of thing I'd do if I saw someone getting cleared/widely town read and wanted to stop it. specifically I take issue with you claiming things like, "if he's scum he's lying about some aspect of his role" and "we haven't seen the gladiator in action" when in reality this is unreasonable. it makes no sense for someone to make up something like that most of the time, and even if they are there isn't a point in discussing it until it actually comes up.

Ok:
1) Who, besides Sakura, had asserted that the role most likely was town at the point where I disagreed?
2) Why is muffin not being entirely truthful unreasonable (from either alignment)?
3) Is what you really mean is "there's no point in scrutinizing the person fakeclaiming until it is demonstrably proven that they are" or "there's no point in not taking the claim at face value until proven otherwise"
Because I agree with the first statement, disagree with the second, and even if I agreed with the second AND muffin is exactly what he says he is there's

no fucking way for me to discern alignment from that with any degree of accuracy and that's all I've fucking been saying the entire fucking game

I'm just really fucking sick of this conversation

[Kagami]

I guess koishi.

[Kagami]

meh, muffin seems town anyway.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm fully aware that there may be some way to counter it if it's a scum role, but it didn't read like you were employing critical thinking to figure out how his role would make sense as either alignment. I would expect a town approach to go something like "I think X and Y might be potential counters to zmuffin's role as a scum role" (which tbh was my approach when I first saw the claim although I kept, and am keeping, silent about it)

I mean a town dayvig is a potential counter to fucking anything as a scum role if you're seriously talking about logistics of getting someone removed from the game. Even if I hypothesized about "potential counters to X role," that doesn't become even remotely useful until evidence/absence of said counters are claimed. I feel this is really self-evident. I don't setup spec in the frame of a single role and I don't expect anyone else to either and sometimes the most correct thing I can say is "I don't endorse this because I know enough to know that I don't have enough information to correctly do that"
My "at this point in time" was an allusion to the fact that the gamestate could change in a way that nullifies or marginalizes that power.
And I STRAIGHT UP SAID I have voting shenanigans associated with my role.

[borkjerfkin]

do you think "tone" is a good reason to town read me?

For you it's not a bad baseline.

[SXTLHGaiden]

I guess koishi.

??

[Kilgamayan]

Presumably a reaction to GiF's guessing game.

I'm guessing Ran myself, as obvious an answer as that seems.

[Kagami]

Presumably a reaction to GiF's guessing game.

I'm guessing Ran myself, as obvious an answer as that seems.

Yep. As it stands, I have no party to attend.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh wait, no, I'm an idiot, GiF is probably Shinmyoumaru.

[Kagami]

He's asking about yukari because yukari was scum in the past two games and held a very powerful scum-role.