Open 614: Diffusion of Power (THE TOWN WINS!)

[White Fire]

I am willing to believe that claim from Aj for now.....though like Dave said it could be some sort of buddying...

Anyways, texcat you realize scum often hammer their own for town credit right?

[White Fire]

VOTE: TimHoward
Barely interacted with Alpha, barely interacted with anyone else about Alpha's fakeclaim, didn't try hard to stop the lynch but also didn't want to join it. Did hammer KT Day 1.

hmmmm

I could def sheep this if I didn't feel like it was the obvious choice...

[White Fire]

I need to get Shiro thoughts on this.

I was wrong about townreading alpha >.>
And we know that means I was wrong about everything!

-Fire

[Kop]

VOTE: Tim Howard

Simply for your gameplay late on day two. I just didn't understand your logic of not wanting to vote for someone who slipped up in the thread, and the basis of his (Flow) whole game plan day one. But yet your happy enough to hammer KT, with out a reason.

[Wanderer-nl]

Firebringer, let me ask you this: Do Frogger and BBT strike you as players that would almost completely ignore Alpha if they were town?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Firebringer, let me ask you this: Do Frogger and BBT strike you as players that would almost completely ignore Alpha if they were town?

I did, why not?

[TimHoward]

Hey guys. So this wagon on us is scum movitvated, because we're town. Both wanderer and Kop's votes on us are bad.

BBT and I are both incredible scum players, and we wouldn't be scuking this hard if we were scum. For me, Kop should 100% know this isn't my scum game. I played masterfully in CDB's game and won it. Setup was 6-2-1, I was the 1 and only had 1 night kill all game. And in Delicious with Kop my two scumbuddies got guilties on them, yet I only finally got cross/nightkilled by the other scum team the night before mylo. Fire knows this isn't my scumgame - I've been too crap here. I had the whole town town-reading me by the time I replaced out of the game for RL reasons the time I was scum in a game with/against Fire.

Wanderer just rolled scum with BBT and still hasn't answered me on why he thinks this is reminiscent of that game. He's dodged the question for some time now. And now he wants to make a case on us while still dodging that question. I think wanderer is more likely scum of the two voting us.

If we were Flow's scumbuddy, we would have bussed him a long time ago. Not sat there and defended him.

Spoiler: me defending FA

I agree with BBT that AJ is likely scum, but I also believe lynching AJ doesn't give us the most information. Why? Let's look at the D1 wagon...

Official Vote Count

KTthecreeper

(7): Flow Alpha, Panopticon, White Fire, KTthecreeper, Wanderer-nl, Davsto, TimHoward

Davsto

(2): ika, Anatole Kuragin

Flow Alpha

(1): texcat

White Fire

(1): Aj The Epic

Not Voting

(2): davesaz, Kop

There's 100% at least one scum on the KT wagon. There's a reason ika was killed, and that's because he was OFF the wagon, so scum wanted to keep the lynch pool as wide as possible because they know they were on the wagon (and KT self voted) and that's the first place people would look. They didn't want to narrow the pool down to 4 (from my point of view, 5 from others), and instead keep it at 5/6 depending on POV.

That means guaranteed at least one scum (maybe 2 or 3) in Flow Alpha, Panopticon, White Fire, Wanderer, and Davsto.

Flow Alpha feels like the easy target from that wagon, which is why BBT voted AJ, and I agree that's what it feels like AJ is doing. However, I do believe we should lynch in that wagon because it's the easiest path to finding at least one scum.

Since I don't believe it's Flow Alpha, that means Pano, White Fire, Wanderer, and Davsto would be the pool I would be targeting. BBT and I do not like the continued hydra dissonance from White Fire. Continued hydra dissonance without any attempt at resolution is very scummy.

I realize this probably makes us look scummy if Flow Alpha flips scum as me trying to dismantle the wagon, but I don't care. I do agree however that Flow Alpha has been very anti-town in their posting, and we cannot have that continue through My/LyLo. So I will not be voting Flow Alpha, but getting rid of someone so anti-town is what it is. If Davsto wants to hammer after that. Fine. I'm not gonna stop it. The good thing is if FA flips town, the pool of who was on the KT wagon is narrowed further, especially from our point of view we'd be down to 4.

-Frog

Flow Alpha seems like lynchbait

I even predicted we'd be the wagon if FA flipped scum in that first post in the spoiler.

Yes - I hammered KT because I thought they were scummy D1, which is why I voted them earlier in the day as well. But I guess Kop chose to ignore that fact.

[TimHoward]

Firebringer, let me ask you this: Do Frogger and BBT strike you as players that would almost completely ignore Alpha if they were town?

Oh shut up. I ignored MTD all game until after you and BBT flipped in numbers. AND I WAS TOWN.

[TimHoward]

Also - not going go give much credence to AJ's claim. Could be AJ/WF cross voted each other as scum yesterday and let town lynch their buddy. Now they are gambiting a cop claim.

Or could just be AJ is scum and knows WF is town cop claiming for town cred.

[TimHoward]

Or could just be AJ is scum and knows WF is town

so AJ is now

cop claiming for town cred.

EBWOP to make it more clear what I'm saying.

[TimHoward]

BBT and I were actually hoping to roll scum, because we both like playing scum better and we're both great at it. We would've steamrolled town. But we're lackluster town here.

[Aj The Epic]

Also - not going go give much credence to AJ's claim. Could be AJ/WF cross voted each other as scum yesterday and let town lynch their buddy. Now they are gambiting a cop claim.

Or could just be AJ is scum and knows WF is town cop claiming for town cred.

Because in this scenerio it makes complete sense for me to gambit out my buddy day2 and hang the game on a knife's edge. It also makes sense for me to unvote as scum when it's an easy lynch to go through and I would've gotten easy cred for being on a scum lynch and a counterwagon to one at that. And then I unvoted only to convince my buddy to hammer.

Yes, I obviously see this as the correct play.
VOTE: TimHoward

The apathetic "we wanted scum" is not cutting it, either.

[TimHoward]

^That's the scummiest vote so far.

When we flip town, realize this was a scum motivated wagon. They want us gone as the easy target.

[TimHoward]

AJ unvoted FA ... remember that folks. Now he's trying to get town cred for "copping" WF.

P-sure AJ is scum.

[TimHoward]

The apathetic "we wanted scum" is not cutting it, either.

do you really think this is how I'd play as scum? Really?

Piss off.

[TimHoward]

VOTE: Aj the Epic

[Aj The Epic]

AJ unvoted FA ... remember that folks. Now he's trying to get town cred for "copping" WF.

P-sure AJ is scum.

Okay really, what fucking scum leads a wagon on their buddy then gets cold feet and L-1 and intent to hammer?

[TimHoward]

Fair point. I've seen it once before, but it wasn't by the person leading the wagon.

UNVOTE:

If you really are town, this is good, even if we get lynched. Because then you'll lynch correctly tomorrow. It also means WF is confirmed town too which is even better.

[TimHoward]

Again - if I was scum, I wouldn't be making this many mistakes/playing this terribly.

[TimHoward]

So AJ - if you had to pick between Kop or Wanderer, who would you pick and why?

[Aj The Epic]

Kop, his decision to jump on and put to L-1 feels out of place (as well as his sudden unshakable belief that flow was scum off some 'scum claim' of a new player).

[TimHoward]

Ok cool. Kop's also been disengaged, which is a scumtell of his. He was scum in Delicious (on the other faction) and was disengaged until he had to be engaged.

In the 6-2-1 micro, Kop was very engaged as town.

I haven't even paid attention to Kop this game, which is why he's probably slipped under my radar...because of the low level of engagement from him.

VOTE: Kop

[Wanderer-nl]

The point is that I expect both you and you (Frogger and BBT, gah this is hard in writing) to respond more to Alpha's fakeclaim, and everything that resulted from that. I see you both as players that are on top of everything that happens and have an opinion on everything and sometimes (this is mostly to BBT) push your opinion so hard it's getting annoying (as both alignments though, and I don't mean anything bad by it either) so to me it really stands out both of you hardly engaged with Alpha and barely (if at all) voiced an opinion on Alpha's fakeclaim and their behaviour the next Day.

[Wanderer-nl]

Also, you said it yourself that self-meta is scummy and now you're doing it yourselves. Everyone can have an off-game, make a bad decision and feel like you have to stick with it. I've been scum, I know the feel.
And how is MTD even comparable to Alpha? MTD barely did anything to attract attention to himself while Alpha was the center of it most of Day 1 AND Day 2.

[TimHoward]

The point is that I expect both you and you (Frogger and BBT, gah this is hard in writing) to respond more to Alpha's fakeclaim, and everything that resulted from that. I see you both as players that are on top of everything that happens and have an opinion on everything and sometimes (this is mostly to BBT) push your opinion so hard it's getting annoying (as both alignments though, and I don't mean anything bad by it either) so to me it really stands out both of you hardly engaged with Alpha and barely (if at all) voiced an opinion on Alpha's fakeclaim and their behaviour the next Day.

I'm far far far far far more likely to let stuff slip by as town. Have you even read a scum game of mine?

Remember how I ignored BBT's questions completely in Numbers? Remember how I ignored MTD all game until the last day? I'm careless as town.