Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Jeanne11]

Okay, I'll invite you, but if I see even slightest scum motivation from you, from my point of view, you're dead meat, RR.

[Jeanne11]

However, it won't be until later.

[Jeanne11]

Also, you say Titus isn't infailable? Well, guess what, you aren't either, so cut the 'trust me because I say so' crap.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, you say Titus isn't infailable? Well, guess what, you aren't either, so cut the 'trust me because I say so' crap.

That is the point. Having heard our view on people making unsubstantiated claims, what do you think is more likely? That we're just full of shit and apply our standards only to others...or that we have an actual reason to make the statements we're making with 100% certainty?

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

Yes, you do have double standards. For instance, you said LQ cannot give objective proof and it would be ridiculous to demand it, yet you demanded objective proof from Kari. Explain that.

[Jeanne11]

Moreover, when I asked you to give objective proof using rational approach you claim you use, you don't even give it and instead try to divert my question by asking me questions instead.

[Jeanne11]

So yeah, I think you're full of shit, otherwise you'd have used your rational approach to list reasons why you're town. It's up to you to prove me wrong, to prove us wrong.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes, you do have double standards. For instance, you said LQ cannot give objective proof and it would be ridiculous to demand it, yet you demanded objective proof from Kari. Explain that.

Again, you are misunderstanding the situation. Kari claimed they would be conftown today. I explained that without objective proof, they could be, at best, obvtown, not conftown. I demanded objective proof if they were going to claim to be conftown. I didn't demand objective proof period, because said proof isn't available...unless someone is actually, legitimately conftown by the standards I outlined in that post.

Moreover, when I asked you to give objective proof using rational approach you claim you use, you don't even give it and instead try to divert my question by asking me questions instead.

Objective proof about WHAT? About the claims we've made? We've already established that we don't feel it would be in the towns best interest to state said proof in thread. I don't think there's anything more that needs to be said.

If you're asking about objective proof regarding anything else, it doesn't exist. Everything else is a matter of, as I said before, probabilities. It is UNLIKELY that you are scum on the same team as LQ at this point, by virtue of your extended push on him. Because there was only one kill last night, it is UNLIKELY that there are two killing factions. Therefore you are LIKELY to be town. That's how it works. None of that is certainty. There is a chance that you're a traitor who didn't know who the members of who team was, and just knew you were recruitable. There's a chance that you are some other killing faction, and you simply didn't succeed on your kill last night. There's a TINY chance that you did indeed bus your teammate that hard on D1, but I see that as hugely unlikely, and I only really include it for the sake of completeness.

pedit: I don't care about proving myself to be town. That couldn't possibly matter less to me. The ONLY reason why I'm considering wasting the time proving why I'm town to you is because you are wasting everyone's time and flooding the thread with nonsense. The point of approaching things rationally isn't to prove things to other people about myself. It's to find out what does and does not make sense in the game as a whole, and what portions of individuals play logically follow vs which ones do not.

Example: You said yesterday you were deliberately acting insane(or at least, this was insinuated in your response to Titus telling you to stop acting insane). Given the strength of your role, that's a very reasonable play to make. It makes scum keep you alive, because of the noise you're providing, and you can do more to organize the town than likely anyone else can. HOWEVER, you exposed that role. You outed it, and thus negated all the benefit of your deliberate insanity. That is just one of the reasons why I was suspicious of you yesterday. Your play simply didn't make sense, the same way LQ's play as a BP didn't make sense.

In any case, with regards to our slot: Except for the thing which I would prefer to NOT mention in the game thread, there is nothing in the game which provides a preponderance of evidence that we are town. I would say that if we had defended LQ, that would be strong cause for anyone who thought us competent to doubt that we could be on the same scum team as him, but we didn't *actually* defend him. It's not up to me to prove you wrong. I don't have any need to do that. All I need to do is find the rest of the scum in this game, and convince you to stop being a distraction they can hide behind.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

I only outed myself because wgeurts and LQ kept pressuring me.

You say there's only probability. Yet according to you, there's no possibility that you're scum. None whatsoever. For all I know, you could be scum doing exactly what you said scum would: hiding behind me.

[Jeanne11]

But okay, I'll play your little game.

[Jeanne11]

Titus told me not to let you distract me with your bs. And the more I read your 'reasonable' posts, the more I am convinced that you're actually scum and that she was right.

[Reasonably Rational]

I only outed myself because wgeurts and LQ kept pressuring me.

You say there's only probability. Yet according to you, there's no possibility that you're scum. None whatsoever. For all I know, you could be scum doing exactly what you said scum would: hiding behind me.

I never said there's no possibility I'm scum to the rest of the game. I said that I wouldn't be lynched. Given the way the game has played out and the information I have, it will be extremely obvious to everyone that there is an extremely small chance I'm scum after I share it, but the chance won't be 0. I'm not an IC, I'll give you that much.

To be perfectly honest, the scum have likely already picked up on what's going on here, because they aren't blinded by paranoia.

-Cerb

[Jeanne11]

Well, allow me hoist you by your own petard then. You said that Titus was an inventor who could give 1-shot doctor to players yet was scum, and said that just because a role has town utility doesn't mean it isn't scum. You do realize that same could be applied to you? If you want me to limit it to this thread, LQ was a double voter, scum double voter. Double voter normally has town utility, yet he was scum. Same could apply to you.

[wgeurts]

Okay, I'll invite you, but if I see even slightest scum motivation from you, from my point of view, you're dead meat, RR.

Invite me

[Jeanne11]

Not yet.

[wgeurts]

Also scum double voter is more common than town, especially in Varsoon games
Pr-edit: Why? The sooner we get this crap out of the way the sooner we can organise the town.

[Jeanne11]

Because I don't trust either of you and don't want to screw over the town again?

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, allow me hoist you by your own petard then. You said that Titus was an inventor who could give 1-shot doctor to players yet was scum, and said that just because a role has town utility doesn't mean it isn't scum. You do realize that same could be applied to you? If you want me to limit it to this thread, LQ was a double voter, scum double voter. Double voter normally has town utility, yet he was scum. Same could apply to you.

And this is yet more evidence that what I'm hinting at can't possibly be something along those lines, or else I wouldn't be expressing it in the terms I'm using.

There is a very, very, very short list of roles which would, given the standards of certainty I've expressed as necessary in this thread, allow me to claim that I am town, I will not be lynched, and I can prove this to you.

Go ahead, make a list for yourself, and you'll be able to figure it out.

Anyways, I'm going back to sleep for a couple hours, no idea why I woke up so early.

-Cerb

Pedit: Jeanne, only if people have claimed to you in your pt will you actually give scum any information they don't already have, in the event that you accidentally invite the wrong person in. At least, that's my understanding of how this functions. Someone new joins an existing topic and can thus read everything which was previously said, right?

[wgeurts]

If you don't let us in ASAP you're hindering the town. What the bloody crumpets could go wrong? If I'm not scum and am town we create a game breaking town bloc and if I'm scum and don't prove crud I get lynched.

[Jeanne11]

Actually, Titus claimed in that thread, and so did I.

[Jeanne11]

Well, I cannot invite you both.

[wgeurts]

Only me

[Jeanne11]

VOTE: wgeurts

I'll invite you, but this vote stays until you give me proof you're town to my satisfaction. When you do, I'll remove it asap.

[Jeanne11]

I ALSO SWEAR, IF EITHER ONE OF YOU ENDS UP BEING SCUM, I WILL EAT YOU. GRAPES AND FI8GS SHOULD BE EATEN.

[wgeurts]

That's fine, look forward to moving this game forward