Mini 1737: Bringer Mafia [Mafia Win]

[Bleeding Scar]

Reading now.

UNVOTE:

[Errantparabola]

The two main wagon targets are both on all alone. Although that information probably doesn't mean much, it could mean something for all alone being an attempted counterwagon after a flip.

[Errantparabola]

621 reads towny to me, although I disagree with it.

[Bleeding Scar]

VOTE: all Alone

I think flipping All Alone will tell us the most about the game state.

I'm not liking Errant parabolas claiming that the Frogger and BnL wagons are superior wagons.

I could also wagon Slandarr for being a useless man.

I have no interest in wagoning Keysor or Frogger.

[Accountant]

what the heck, Radiant isnt getting lynched anytime soon, might as well go with SR number 2. No one put him at L-1, its too early for that.
VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I REALLY DONT LIKE HOW RADIANT HOPPED ON THE BIGGEST WAGON, AND I REEEEALLY WANT RADIANT GONE

Any reasoning?

You've done a complete 180 it seems on your reads.

Explain how I have done a 180?
Show me where I said you were in the town slot. If not, don't lie to me!

[Accountant]

Ignore the above post. I was trying to quote stuff and accidentally submitted. Will reformat and resend.

[Accountant]

Wait a minute, why shouldn't my vote be on TheFuzzylogic99?

There are way more scummy people right now. Vedith(fuck his role claim, I don't give a shit), FRAGGERNAUT, even Bullet. Heck I would be more likely to back a Slandaar or All Alone lynch than a Fuzzy lynch. I'm not lynching lurkers with so many screaming scum.

OK, so it has been agreed on that Fraggernaut has soft claimed a PR. So I would like to ask everyone, do you believe his soft claim, and do you think he should be lynched today, and do you think he should be unwagobed?

I don't buy his shit. Anyone can soft claim PR to wriggle out of a lynch.

I REALLY DONT LIKE HOW RADIANT HOPPED ON THE BIGGEST WAGON, AND I REEEEALLY WANT RADIANT GONE

Actually, Radiant did more than just hopping on the biggest wagon. I would say All Alone is the most opportunistic wagoner this game.

but i honestly liked what he has said

What has Slandaar said that you liked?

Seemed really scummy in the beginning, kind of became less so when he started focusing on different people other than fragger, still in the lynch pool because I don't trust him

You think Bullet was scummy in the beginning? Why?

Then you said he became less scummy when he started focusing on different people. That implies that parking your vote on Fragger and pushing his wagon ceaselessly was a scummy move. But I did exactly that, and you listed me as town. What's with the discrepancy here?

I was thinking about putting my vote on him because until vedith yolo claimed for no reason, nothing he has done has convinced me of him being even a little townie.

If you're going with "if he hasn't done anything townie, he's scum" then Blocky should be the first head to roll.

There you go Keyer, I present the scum!

I could very well see this as the scum team, but I'm not convinced it's definitely the correct scum combination.

You've done a complete 180 it seems on your reads.

No he hasn't.

[Accountant]

Which leads to the irony of people saying I've been defensive this game without pointing your defensiveness out as well.

Yeah, both of you are defensive.

This game he seems shocked with it and is pushing the exact same way he did then (He was scum).

Honestly I can get behind this remark. I feel the same way too, but I don't really want to lynch someone just because his playstyle was similar to the last time he was scum.

*p0's vote on vedith*

That's scummy.

I think flipping All Alone will tell us the most about the game state.

I'm not liking Errant parabolas claiming that the Frogger and BnL wagons are superior wagons.

I could also wagon Slandarr for being a useless man.

I have no interest in wagoning Keysor or Frogger.

Suppose All Alone flips town - what would this tell you?
Now suppose All Alone flips scum - what would this tell you?

Why don't you like Errant's claim about the wagons?

Why do you think that Slandaar can be lynched for being useless given the slot you replaced into?

Finally, why don't you think Fraggernaut is scummy?

[PatientZer0]

What has Slandaar said that you liked?

---------

You are asking a question which does not need asking. He just made a case on Fragger and your main thought is to ask why he wants to 'turbo lynch' Fragger. You expected him to say 'here's my case lets sit around the camp fire discussing things for 5 days?' ridiculous.

Well, M'lady, I was busy over the weekend as is the case quite often. I understand it must have been a heavy burden figuring out what Fragger softclaiming means without me, I apologise for that, but fear not because I am here now!

I shall put it simply. Often town PR cannot handle the pressure of a couple votes and claim prematurely, it actually happens a lot. I don't remember a case when early claim (effectively what he did) is scum.

Fragger broke under the pressure and effectively claimed PR.

Why do you think his actions are more likely from the scum than town?

These two quotes were filled with enough information for me to consider him less null than the other inactive people
----------

You think Bullet was scummy in the beginning? Why?

Then you said he became less scummy when he started focusing on different people. That implies that parking your vote on Fragger and pushing his wagon ceaselessly was a scummy move. But I did exactly that, and you listed me as town. What's with the discrepancy here?

No actually you're wrong. Assuming that your statement is correct, is wrong. The reason i pegged him as scum on fragger's wagon was because he had a flimsy reason and never reinforced it enough to make me believe it. The moment he moved elsewhere I believed him to be less scum because he then went on to openly push All Alone who had an equally flimsy reason to vote fragger, so in my mind with both of their relative inactivity, they both "probably," not definitely, arn't scum together. The reason i listed you as town is because of the vocalization and active picking at fragger's posts, which to me, is a townie thing to do even though I thought you were pushing a TvT argument.

If you're going with "if he hasn't done anything townie, he's scum" then Blocky should be the first head to roll.

I honestly don't know what blocky is, and what he is doing. I would think if he was maf he would play better than this. I think he is just yoloing as a vanilla townie. All Alone is more a gut read, and I would be okay with lynching him.

[PatientZer0]

Also how is me voting Vedith scummy after what he just did. Then, he tries to shift the mass of scum he was accumulating onto me because he played with me one game and said I am definitely playing like that game and I was scum -_-. That's a bunch of bullshit and you both know it.

anyway, accountant what are your reads currently?

[PatientZer0]

*therefore i am scum now* should be inbetween scum and my are you fucking serious face.... on that note how do you edit posts?

[BNL]

*therefore i am scum now* should be inbetween scum and my are you fucking serious face.... on that note how do you edit posts?

[BNL]

*therefore i am scum now* should be inbetween scum and my are you fucking serious face.... on that note how do you edit posts?

You can't edit posts. Only the mod can.

[Accountant]

Also how is me voting Vedith scummy after what he just did. Then, he tries to shift the mass of scum he was accumulating onto me because he played with me one game and said I am definitely playing like that game and I was scum -_-. That's a bunch of bullshit and you both know it.

I got a strong OMGUS vibe from it. It's like something Fragger would do, except a bit less obvious appeal to emotions.

anyway, accountant what are your reads currently?

I'll do a list.

[Frozen Angel]

Also how is me voting Vedith scummy after what he just did. Then, he tries to shift the mass of scum he was accumulating onto me because he played with me one game and said I am definitely playing like that game and I was scum -_-. That's a bunch of bullshit and you both know it.

well PZ, you just claim vedith is scum after he called you so? ad your reason is that he called you scum?

@vedith Can you rest a moment and start thinking before posting anything else? what the hell is this. I invite people to check your ISO. its just wrong

and my doubts about frag are coming back. Frag might be actually town. But I think the people who is buddying him (vedith /blocky) ... there is something really wrong here.

The two main wagon targets are both on all alone. Although that information probably doesn't mean much, it could mean something for all alone being an attempted counterwagon after a flip.

Can we have a wall post from you. I don't get your stance here, and its getting harder to judge you.

[Frozen Angel]

Well at first vedith - Frag were talking like friends

then vedith called him scum and voted him... I just can't handle this ...

[RadiantCowbells]

Friends can vote friends, yo.

[Accountant]

Accountant's Reads.

Please remember that this is a Day 1 reads list, and may change throughout the game. I have divided players into 5 categories: Town, Town Lean, Null, Scum Lean and Scum. I also have not given a confidence percentage rating in the Null category because, well, it's hard to calibrate reads that are by definition hard to get a grasp of.

Readslist will be formatted as follows:
ALIGNMENT
Player - (confidence in read)% [reason]{additional notes}

Town

Accountant - 100% [No reason given.]{Confirmed town.}

RadiantCowbells - 80% [Aggressive play against targets I consider objectively scummy(ie. not reaching or pushing mislynches). Generates momentum for town, extremely transparent with thought process.]{Some opportunistic play, nothing too egregious. I have noted that his playstyle tends to hamper the tempo of the game in previous games we have played together, but this does not seem to be happening here.}

Keyser Söze - 80% [Universally townread, which isn't a towntell by itself but lends support to other evidence. Strong and insightful analysis, drawing on ISO. Seems to have some interest in pushing the game forward, though not as much as RadiantCowbells. What I like specifically about his analysis is that it makes sense and ties together, and he seems to act consistently in accordance with it.]{I often found myself nodding my head when reading through his posts. Nice GIFs, though this is irrelevant to the game. Need to keep an eye on him to make sure I don't read him as obvtown and forget to be on the lookout for scumtells - Keyser is townie, but not confirmed.}

Frozen Angel - 70% [Very transparent with her thoughts, aggressive play and eager to push the game forward. I would give her a much higher confidence rating in her being town if not for some inconsistencies and weirdness in her play.]{I don't think enough people are giving her proper scum-credit for her weird bus-like jump on Fragger's wagon, including myself. I think RC was the first one that wasn't Fragger to call it scummy. I've also changed my mind again - she's back on my "absolutely cannot lynch today" list.}

Town Lean

Errantparabola - 70% [He's like a more lurky Keyser in terms of how "right" his analysis feels to me. I also get a vibe that he is trying to figure things out.]{Needs to be more active. Two prods according to the page 1 post.}

All Alone - 60% [I think the people who point to stuff that All Alone is saying and claiming it's scummy are exaggerating or mistaken. I do not get a scummy vibe from All Alone at all, and she has made several posts that I like. She has a knack for building good cases.]{Needs to be more active. Some opportunistic play. Enough for me to give her a couple of scum points, but not enough for me to take her out of my Town Lean category.}

PatientZer0 - 50% [I've spent some time thinking and trying to sort this guy out. I'm tentatively putting him in Town Lean because he seems to be helping town more than he hurts it, and doesn't have any obvious scum shtick or aspect that I could point to. My gut doesn't like it, and a few good cases have been built against him. He does seem to be participating in scumhunting.]{Playstyle seems to match previous game in which he was scum. Probably the most variable of my reads.}

Null

Slandaar - [I thought he was scummy at first, especially with his lurking, but I think scum!Slandaar would care more about the game. The thing that stands out after a re-read is that he has not really tried to push any lynches - the day is ripe for scum to push mislynches. I also thought the quotes that PatientZer0 stated he liked do look pretty town.]{Needs to be more active. If RL issues are screwing you up, you should consider getting replaced.}

Scum Lean

BulletNLynchproof - 40% [I was really tempted to put him in null for a bit. There's a worrying trend of people putting him as "yes, let's lynch him" without really stating why, which makes me suspect he may be jumped on by scum. On the other hand, I don't like his inconsistent and opportunistic play and the fact that I don't really feel him trying to scumhunt.]{I would like Bullet to make a good defense of himself explaining why he shouldn't be lynched and addressing the accusations thrown at him.}

BlockyMan - 90% [Absolutely horrible play, voting RadiantCowbells for stupid reasons, lurking, giving dumb reasons. I would agree with RadiantCowbells' statement that he is a good policy lynch candidate.]{Needs to be more active.}

Scum

Vedith - 40% [I don't believe his roleclaim.]{Playstyle is similar to previous game, where he was town.}

Fraggernaut - 75% [Already addressed this guy multiple times, I'm not going to harp on it any further.]{Needs to stop using personal attacks and trolling, doesn't help anyone regardless of alignment.}

[RadiantCowbells]

Accountant, if you're going to pretend to be a guy you could at least change your pronoun.

[Frozen Angel]

Friends can vote friends, yo.

lets assume Vedith and Frag are both town. There was no reason for vedith to role claim at the time. the way he role claimed to defend his naked list suggests he had a reason to show Frag town / or at least himself. and the way they started lobbying there and attack each other right after suggests there is a weird goal hidden here.

if Vedith is scum and frag is town , vedith wanted to show us he is contributing with the game (after being accused of lurking several times) which makes sense.

if vedith is town and frag is scum , vedith freaked out when frag started to mention him several times directly and when keyser started to question his reads.

if both are scum ; the lobbying make sense at the time. then to prove their not same aligned they started to attack each other.

in conclusion I think we caught one scum here.

[Frozen Angel]

at least one*

[BNL]

To be honest, I think that I would give Fragger a pass for Today only, and look to lynch him on day two. If Fraggernaut is really a Mafia, then delaying his lynch is just delaying, but not completely avoiding. On the other hand, if Frag is a town PR, there is no reason for Mafia not to kill him tonight as it could interfere with the Mafia's win objective, and Frag could then outright claim to prove himself town. However, if many people insist on lynching Fraggernaut today, I won't mind too much either.

Will address Accountant's post soon (probably in my next post)

[Accountant]

I do not think there is a possibility that Vedith and Fragger are both town.

[Accountant]

I have no idea why I quoted my own remark.

[RadiantCowbells]

Annie

Wait, what?