Touhou UPick 4 - [Aborted]

[Kagami]

Kagami, why the unvote?

While I don't think a pile of X-leans is particularly impressive, I think the expectation of action that the vote represented remains without it.

I'm concerned about gaiden as well.

[Sky_Paladin]

@muffin

Hypothetically if Bork suddenly died and flipped town, what would you then say of Gaiden?

[zMuffinMan]

that he still hasn't done anything town-looking

[zMuffinMan]

we should probably start working towards consolidating a lynch choice sooner rather than later

pretty much my would-be-willing-to-lynch pool has remained the same throughout this day phase - {bork gaiden chocola shadoweh}

i just don't really have any strong feelings about anyone outside that pool being scum atm and i don't have any strong feelings that anyone inside that pool is likely town

i am a little disappointed that chocola won't die to the 9-day rule (at least any time soon) and i kinda want that to die sooner rather than later tbh. not sure if it's a worthwhile lynch D1

[zMuffinMan]

i should note; if i choose to use my gladiator ability, it will cause all wagons to be unvoted, so keep that in mind if anyone actually cares about me proving its existence

i would like to get at least some opinions on who the most viable wagons for everyone are and start moving towards making those happen and getting a claim or two on the table before it reaches the 24-hour mark

[Shadoweh]

Townreads go something like: The_Relentless > Sakura Hana > Kilgermans > zMuffinMan > Bork > Sky P.

I spotted this earlier while reading your posts. You mentioned having a scum read on Sky_Paladin twice, yet here he is last in your town list. What changed?

It's a weak read but the way he's going about his questioning is similar enough to the quirky but solid style I expect him to use as town that I think he's town. When there's something weird he doesn't let it go as town. It took me a few looks to realize he's still insisting Relentless explain something that happened in RVS. He's on a mission based on something only he knows and scum don't get missions from ZUN, 90% of the time. The teeth latched into pie is also town, I don't think he'd be going for hard to eat fruit. Generally if I look at Sky and think he's trying, helpful and from another planet, I think he's town.

Also, as much as my heart wants Muffin to be scum, I have to admit that Shadowy's responses to his posts are not terribly impressive and that I similarly have no idea who Borkborkbork thinks is town or scum.

I don't think zmuffin is scum and haven't been trying to prove that, why would my responses to him being 'not terribly impressive' have anything to do with his alignment?

[Kilgamayan]

Kagami: I'm not so sure. I think Relentless's assessment is pretty accurate.

Muffin: Why no Katsuki in that pool?

Shadowy: It was more a commentary on your alignment than his.

[Shadoweh]

There's only so many ways you can tell someone that you don't want to continue a conversation with them that don't involve copious amounts of Fuck.
I'd think you'd understand not being able to read people because of one person (that you don't need a read on anymore) constantly demanding your attention by nitpicking you line by line.
He's perfectly capable of being town, wrong and annoying. What's similar in knowing who I think is town compared to bork after outright telling you what I think?

[zMuffinMan]

I think Relentless's assessment is pretty accurate.

i feel that way about borko

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin: Why no Katsuki in that pool?

i'm holding him to different standards

[Kilgamayan]

Those must be some pretty low standards. <_<

Shadowy: Maybe it's because it's too early for brain functions, but I'm afraid I don't understand your question.

[Kilgamayan]

(This is commentary on Katsuki's performance so far in this game and not on his abilities as a player or on him in general as a person etc etc)

[Shadoweh]

"I have to admit that Shadowy's responses to his posts are not terribly impressive and that I similarly have no idea who Borkborkbork thinks is town or scum."
I'm asking you how your opinion on me is similar to your opinion on Bork after I etched out some clear town reads.

Those must be some pretty low standards. <_<

Katsuki's opinion that being more helpful last game made him scum isn't exactly wrong.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, I meant similarly to Muffin's sentiments about Borkborkbork (read: not know what bork actually thinks of anyone), not similarly to anything said about you. Sorry for the confusion.

[Sky_Paladin]

Muffin

that he still hasn't done anything town-looking

The main issue I have with Gaiden is that he hasn't contributed anything while remaining somewhat active, and his entire content has been 'lemme into your topics pl0x'. Which is entirely what I would expect scum to do. As I stated earlier, this is the most active I've ever seen Gaiden. So when I asked you this it as basically if you want to lynch Gaiden anyway I wonder why you wouldn't lynch Gaiden as the priority.

{bork gaiden chocola shadoweh}

I'd add Relentless to this list. I was unhappy with his RVS performance (vote switching from Chocola to Sakura then back to Chocola) and his latest vote came after the dive bomb pressure from Pie and friends. The main thing is that his content and effort significantly ramped up around this time, and then died off once the pressure faded. The reason I think this fits with a scum MO better than a town MO is that I don't really see indications from Relentless outside of this to support that he has an interest in advancing game state. It was purely self interest. IIRC a Muffin once said "When a player is suddenly posting a lot when they are about to be lynched, the correct course of action is to lynch them and if they flip town reflect on what they said" or something like that. I expected you to push this and the failure to do so is a surprise for me.

I\m not sure where I stand on Bork/Shadoweh at the moment. I can see where you are coming from - I've often on Shrine Maiden voted for Shadoweh because I've taken her passive-aggressive posting nature as anti-town. She is a hard read. Bork I haven't looked at, I've mainly been looking at Pie/Notty/Sakura. The main problem I have with this knot is that aside from causing from drama at the start of the game, the other event was the dive-bomb on Relentless which mayhaps has borne fruit. While I have been pushing at them to come clean on their antics in their neighbourhood, I've also been wondering privately if there's any value to this other than satisfying my own curiosity

Shadoweh/Kilga despite their back and forth are about the same for me right now. I'm really surprised because I remembered Kilga being a much stronger and active player, kind of like the Muffin on Shrine Maiden. These players become better the longer the game goes on, in my experience. I think it's worth keeping them both around at this point in time.

I think we could justifiably lynch Chocola. It would be hard to get anything meaningful out of it if he flips town because anybody can vote "Well it's a lurker lynch so...". This is a good slot for if we have a spare double-lynch somewhere down the track as hinted at in the OP. Because I think we could justifiably lynch Chocola, I don't advocate it. We should make choices that are harder so that it forces players to put out their real emotions.

So out of your list of four, I would list Relentless and Gaiden as my current preferred lynches for this phase. In regards to Pie/Sakuya/Notty I can't disagree they are creating content although the content value is ??? and it's difficult to say which, if any, is scum and needs to be shot. IMO Sakuya is the most town out of the three so therefore she must be scum, right? I feel like Pie is 'in charge' of the group and that Notty is a passenger. 'A passenger' is exactly the scum MO. That's the one I would lynch.

So coming down to the end of the phase, I would be wanting to lynch one of Relentless/Gaiden/Notty, in that order.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Relentless

[Kagami]

Gaiden's initial apparent interest in neighborizing with me gives him town-points to my mind, but I'm concerned that he abandoned it so readily. His explanation regarding the GiF hood seems reasonable, but that's really all there is to go on atm.

Katsuki is unburdened by lack of proficiency, he deliberately cultivates a meta that makes his scum-game more comfortable. I see something that might be a town-signal in there, anyway.

Going to defer to others' opinion on sky_pal and choco for now. Choco lynch seems reasonable to me.

I don't really think relentless seems scummy at all?

[Kagami]

I've made something of a point not to mention bork and shadow after 178, a post which I regard as an error, not so much because I'm concerned about bork's lack of content, but rather the immediate reciprocal read here:

I have bork and shadoweh for town,
biased toward town on thugkiddums for reasons outside of play.

explain no Kagami - I think that opening has a specific goal and I think scum would be worried about a locked in plan like that biting them in the ass if the gamestate evolves in an unexpected way.

I don't think this is an especially good reason; my opening is kind of objectively scummy in a naive environment and certainly within the realm of my scumplay. It looks like a reaction to the townread.

Out of the people left, Kagami, Gaiden and GiF are more null reads because I can't read them based on Day 1 play.

Kagami seems town to me, I just don't trust myself to actually get a good read on her.

I don't have any specific objections here, but it's a very delayed reaction from someone who I expected would be more interested in interacting with me.

[Kagami]

I'm more or less agreeing with zmuff re: reads, with the caveat that I'd rather give Gaiden time.

[GuyInFreezer]

I could vote bork too.

[Kagami]

I also think that scum are generally going to have more daycards, but bork can probably only use one per Day phase, so idk.

[Katsuki]

Have some respect for my towngame fam I've had that BEST TOWN PERFORMANCE too. >.>b

[Kilgamayan]

What does Gaiden need time for?

[The_Relentless]

you're right Skypal I don't really care about advancing game state rn I'm still town though B)

your assessment is inaccurate since I had just started posting more BEFORE notsci voted me then continued actively posting that day when I had something to respond to which is kind of a duh for why I'd do that

I still don't think bork is scum, but I do agree he needs to post a vote

[SXTLHGaiden]

What does Gaiden need time for?

all the things

[SXTLHGaiden]

Gaiden's initial apparent interest in neighborizing with me gives him town-points to my mind, but I'm concerned that he abandoned it so readily. His explanation regarding the GiF hood seems reasonable, but that's really all there is to go on atm.

It's not really "abandoned" there are... things and stuff.
damn, why don't you have a neighborhood i can crash?