Open 612 - Bad Poets Society - Game Over - Town Win

[MaxwellPuckett]

292 is another potential scum post from MaxwellPuckett. They notes suspicion on Errant, but doesn't pursue it. (Do I do singular verbs or plural verbs for They as a pronoun?) They lists instead Trivium and goodmorning, with a minor bit still at Brunneis, hopping wagons from the Brunneis wagon which was slightly stalled onto the Trivium wagon that was forming. (Hmm. HMMM.)

In hindsight, 301 by Errant is pinging me a bit, too.

And I'd rather either goodmorning or Trivium, than Brunneis

Yet Errant, who Maxwell wasn't liking the posts of, is absent...

If I had to guess a scumteam, on page 13, it'd be {Errant, makara/Persivul, MaxwellPuckett}.

It's late but this is about my own thought processes so it's p easy to answer, I guess.

I think I bothered to answer this now instead of waiting until morning because I wanted to say 1) thanks for remembering to use 'they'
2) Use 'they list' or 'they note'. Regardless of how many people the 'they' pronoun is referring to, that's just how you pair 'they' with verbs. (and if someone disagrees, please I'd really rather not hear it, if you have problems with what I've just said then my counter to them is, this is how I want to be referred to, thank you)

Anyways, you've misunderstood. I said 'And I'd rather either goodmorning or Trivium, than Brunneis', I didn't mean that my top scumreads were goodmorning, Trivium, followed by Brunneis. I meant that I wanted those two over Brunneis, the leading wagon at the time I think. (if not the leading wagon at the time, there were talks, I don't remember exactly what point this post was made at)
If I'd said 'then Brunneis', then your interpretation would be correct. The word 'than' (not then) is used as a comparison here.

[The Fire Hermit]

VOTE: Brunneis

Welcome to mafia 101

[The Fire Hermit]

The players I have been scumreading the whole gave have been Brunneis, Ika Masura, and Persivul (Makara)

[Ika Musume]

listen up, fuckwit

i cannot even begin to explain why those last few posts are the most disgustingly awful posts i've ever seen in a game. your read on brun is absolute fucking shit and you scum reading me is similarly shit because I'M LITERALLY CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN, and you blind voting in MYLO shows you have literally no understanding of literally anything about this game.

play the fucking game properly or replace out and leave the game to firebringer who actually has the mental acuity of a human being

you are the worst player i've ever had the (mis)fortune of playing with

[Ika Musume]

i would call for a force replace on you for being so awful it's actually disgusting, but i doubt the mod would allow that

[Ika Musume]

i think i'm just going to work with mafia from now on because hopefully they'll give me an honorary victory for siding with them over town

HEY MAFIA TEAM, HOW ABOUT THIS? WE NO LYNCH, YOU LEAVE ME ALIVE, AND I'LL VOTE THE FIRE HERMIT FIRST POST TOMORROW AND CALL IT A DAY. SOUND GOOD?

[Ika Musume]

ok pie stop

[Ika Musume]

you need to cool down. take a breather and come back lacter for me, i dont disagree that saint is a terrible player overall but this should eb saved for psot game

[Persivul]

I have a further comment on Persivul.

He was just scum with me in Blitz 1.
My play is similar here to my play in that game. I don't do meta, but unless Persivul shares my belief...by all rights,

he should be scumreading me

.
Instead, Persivul instantly listed my fluffless "focused reads" as town, when that is exactly how I played in Blitz 1 as his scumbuddy.

This is my iso that game.
This is my iso this game. They are pretty similar, yet...

I went into this with low expectations because I believe Ranger has played poorly since my entrance. But, this was the best ISO I've seen yet. Very little fluff. Maintaining focus on primary targets but unlike others was pressuring some secondary suspicions as well. It was so consistently solid that I don't have specifics to point out.

Conclusion: town

I don't see how a Persivul who has seen my play there and sees the similarity here calls me town.

Wow, you really didn't think this through.

Here are the possible explanations:

1. As you were my scum buddy and the focus was rarely if ever on you, I had no reason to pay attention to your posting, and my read here is an honest read based on your posting in this game.

2. Your posting in this game is not as similar in the two games as you think.

3.

This is a scum slip.

In your desire to frame me you just admitted that this is your scum game. This, along with your prediction of an SK kill, is pretty damning evidence.

At the time I gave my read on you, the truth was number one. I didn't pay attention to you in that game as I didn't need to.

But now that you bring it up, everyone should investigate 2. If you're right about that, the logical conclusion is 3.

[duppin]

Taly, I'm going have to be honest with you.
You are way too emotional and you need to stop overreacting.
Ika thinks this is a towntell, but some of us do not. I personally get way more frustrated as scum than I do as town, especially if I believe the reads on me are bullshit.

I do not like engaging with you, because you keep misunderstanding me (I mean like yesterday you tried to push the "you talk like you're confirmed town". I mean really?). You just posted one big wall of text, but most of it was basically just you telling me "hurhur your reads are terrible, this is one big conspiracy to get me mislynched #illuminati", and I can't really be bothered responding to that anymore.
The reads you just gave are pretty damn terrible. Telling ika to consider me to be town for a moment (since he was scumreading me) is in no freaking way a scum tell. Basically your whole wall of random bullshit comes down to this: You are either scum or just too emotional to focus so you just go OMGUS.

I'm done engaging with you Taly. I prefer talking with Kling, because I know her and I actually feel like I can communicate with her.

I'm also just going to make this very clear. I am only lynching between Persivul and Brunneis, and there is 100% at least one scum between the two of you because if there isn't, then the team would have to be Maxwell, Errant and Ranger, and I do not believe Ranger and Errant can be scum buddies which means this is not possible.
It's really damn simple, so you can call me out for it all you want, but that's not really going to change anything.

Now I know Taly is probably going to respond with yet another wall of text, but just so you know it's very unlikely that I am going to answer you unless I feel it would be better if I did.

[Errantparabola]

PAGE 37

in case it's not obvious, i think Brun is the scum-designated LYLO mislynch, which, incidentally, both Ranger and duppin are pushing.

Can this please stop? You (and Brunneis) seriously need to drop this "everyone vs Brunneis" already.

Now I do have a question. Why wasn't Brunneis lynched day 1?

It boggles my mind how you can be so confident in your Brunneis read in LYLO after Day 2.
Is there anything in Day 2 that you can pull from that supports your argument?

Actually, just to make it simple.

If Brunneis is town, the scum are: Persivul, Maxwell and Ranger/Errant.
If Brunneis is scum, the scum are: Brunneis, Persivul and unknown.

Do you have an opinion either way on ranger or me if Brun is town?

[Errantparabola]

PAGE 38

She claims that me being a low-volume poster isn't alignment indicative, yet she chose to townread me for it day 1, which makes me believe that she was indeed buddying.

I don't see anything in Kling's post that would indicate that they townread you.
And even if they were I don't see anything alignment indicative about it.

Obviously this is easy for me to say since I know I am town, but there has to be at least one scum between them.

Do you seriously have to say self-conscious things like this?

When it came to Errant's 24, it felt too serious. 47 is ironic in that I actually felt Errant was themselves overresponding. 71 on a reread does come across as forced to me, so we can add that to the list. (I don't think it was already there.)

My head is exploding right now.
Your reread on my early game screams conf bias to me. Brunn asked a serious question and I gave them a serious answer.

[Errantparabola]

PAGE 39

I personally get way more frustrated as scum than I do as town, especially if I believe the reads on me are bullshit.

Way to apply your meta to someone else. wtf

I don't buy 958 at face value but I'd like to see what Ranger responds with.

I'm pseudovoting duppin right now btw.

[Persivul]

Seems that Ranger can either admit she's playing her scum game; or, backtrack on that, which means that she's conf biasing me.

[duppin]

I don't see anything in Kling's post that would indicate that they townread you.

Um, how about:

I'm pretty sure that Maxwell and Ika are Town. Duppin, too.

Duppin - His low-volume posting is reasonably normal meta. Shows interest only in Trivium and us. I find that curious. Otherwise Lean Town

PAGE 39

I personally get way more frustrated as scum than I do as town, especially if I believe the reads on me are bullshit.

Way to apply your meta to someone else. wtf

Are you actually for real? I wasn't applying self meta, I'm simply stating that I do not think getting emotional is a town tell, since ika asked me why I disagreed.

Do you seriously have to say self-conscious things like this?

No I don't have to say anything at all actually. The only reason I brought it up is that the world I'm giving should be fairly obvious to everyone else, unless they believe I might be scum in which case I'd most likely be with Ranger/you and Maxwell, but I honestly don't think that makes a lot of sense either, at least I couldn't see myself be with Maxwell but I can understand why some might believe that to be the case.

Do you have an opinion either way on ranger or me if Brun is town?

I'm getting the impression you haven't paid that much attention to me or Brunneis so far. I've already talked about you and Ranger several times, and even my posts today should tell you everything you need to know.

Yesterday I said that the interactions between you and Ranger didn't feel like TvT to me, but I was leaning town on you and liked Ranger's ISO so I didn't really know what to do. Brunneis' alignment won't really influence my read on you. If Brunneis is town, the team would be Persivul, Maxwell and you/Ranger.

[duppin]

By the way Maxwell, I asked you a question yesterday.

By the way Max, how come you've ignored Brunneis vs me?

[Errantparabola]

Sorry duppin. Looks like i missed 272.
It still looks like you dont have an opinion on ranger vs me though.

[duppin]

What do you mean? I do. I think you are leaning town and Ranger is null, but there is a pretty big chance that one of you are scum.

Anyway Errant, my point is that I can't make up a scumteam without either Brunneis or Persivul in it. It's impossible for me.
I honestly believe they are scumbuddies, but it very possible one of them is town, so I want to play this safe and figure out who the best lynch is.

What is your read on them?

[Brunneis]

Max, I was just about to get the mod to prod you or something.

Who are you thinking is the top lynch at the moment?

What do you think about Gray's flip as being an SK?

Not sure what to make of Ranger and Ika atm. But I'll read I depth later... Already fulfilled my capacity for thinking today.

i'm still conftown btw - if i was lying, it would be CDMTTTT and there wouldn't be an SK in the game.

I know. I'm wondering about Ranger still...

Ranger, do you still think duppin is posting strongly as town? And if you do, please give me at least 5 reasons of how you see that because I honestly don't.

VOTE: Brunneis

Welcome to mafia 101

......

So while you do every single thing for fire in this game, let me remind you of something of how you've ignored me so thoroughly this game:

It has been 117 posts since you responded to my 847

It has been 676 posts since you responded to my 964

Please, just take one moment to ISO duppin and tell me what you think.

Taly, I'm going have to be honest with you.
You are way too emotional and you need to stop overreacting.

So now I'm being emotional?

Um...

I've never seen town deliberately ignore the points I made against them and accuse me of overreacting.... especially in mylo.

Ika thinks this is a towntell, but some of us do not. I personally get way more frustrated as scum than I do as town, especially if I believe the reads on me are bullshit.

Wow, so I'm scum because I get more emotional than you would? Wtf?

And if you're scum, is that why you keep questioning Klingons D1 townread on you? Because you know it's bullshit and you're deliberately calling out that it is?

Is that why you're ignoring me now because I'm right?

Or, you're town, and you seriously aren't trying to understand me - which I can't understand this would come from town at this point.

But the IC is voting for me, so I guess being the only person in this game to lynch anti-town means nothing if everybody wants to demean everything I say as "AtE" and "desperation" right?

I do not like engaging with you, because you keep misunderstanding me (I mean like yesterday you tried to push the "you talk like you're confirmed town". I mean really?). You just posted one big wall of text, but most of it was basically just you telling me "hurhur your reads are terrible, this is one big conspiracy to get me mislynched #illuminati", and I can't really be bothered responding to that anymore.

Oh seriously? You're not even trying to understand me, and you say you don't like engaging with me on that?

Really? I've been the person to try to engage with you this entire time, and here you're just going to ignore me even more obviously than before?

And no, you just misrepped my entire argument against you again. I have yet to say your reads are terrible as a whole because YOU DON'T HAVE ANY.

And the ones you have expressed? Yeah, they are bad. You refuse to look at anything beyond what someone tells you in this game, and you've had the SAME scumreads on people since D1.

If you can't be bothered to respond to that at least; then why not actually put up a case on me? Or actually pursue someone else so you would have a less narrow vision on who could be todays lynch?

The reads you just gave are pretty damn terrible. Telling ika to consider me to be town for a moment (since he was scumreading me) is in no freaking way a scum tell. Basically your whole wall of random bullshit comes down to this: You are either scum or just too emotional to focus so you just go OMGUS.

My reads are pretty damn terrible? You mean me calling you out that your posts are scum?

Oh BUT WAIT! You only get frustrated as scum when someone has bullshit reads?

So am I supposed to interpret you as scum doing their best to destroy my argument without actual content - or something even more convoluted with the idea you're actually town?

No, telling everyone to consider you as town isn't a scum-tell.

But when I actually do that and consider you town 832

You still want to ride my lynch in mylo for trying to understand YOU?

I'm done engaging with you Taly. I prefer talking with Kling, because I know her and I actually feel like I can communicate with her.

Thanks, you just echoed all my problems with most people here.

You literally just shut me down and ignore me without doing anything else to re-think your scumreads, look at me in a different light as I had done to you, and actually make your read on Klingons head of the hydra somewhat coherent.

I'm also just going to make this very clear. I am only lynching between Persivul and Brunneis, and there is 100% at least one scum between the two of you because if there isn't, then the team would have to be Maxwell, Errant and Ranger, and I do not believe Ranger and Errant can be scum buddies which means this is not possible.
It's really damn simple, so you can call me out for it all you want, but that's not really going to change anything.

Yaaaaaay, because you only think 2 people are scum and can only be scum.

Or well, you'd rather have a narrowed vision in mylo because your reads can't possibly be wrong, right? I mean, you say everyone elses are - but thank god yours is, RIGHT?

Now I know Taly is probably going to respond with yet another wall of text, but just so you know it's very unlikely that I am going to answer you unless I feel it would be better if I did.

Way to repeat yourself on ignoring me when you're not even trying to understand me.

Unless you give me a full readslist explaining your thinking that doesn't involve misrepping or ignoring me as a head of this hydra

I'm going to be that much closer on knowing where my vote should be this dayphase.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This whole Pers calling out Ranger is weird. Especially since Ranger kind of said that this was - or similar to his scum play?

But then, Duppin is pairing Pers with me?

What?

Errant

- What do you think about Pers?

~Taly

[duppin]

Yeah I can't be bothered with you Taly. I don't care what you think about that. I'm not trying to be rude, but I find you pretty annoying and if you are truly town I think we should talk about this post game.

[Persivul]

I couldn't care less if you think it is scummy to be honest. It's just really frustrating that you are basing all of your reads on Brunneis being town.

I believe you later said that you tend to get frustrated more as scum than as town.

I know for a fact that your reads are wrong, because you are calling me scum and I know I am town. I am willing to consider Brunneis to be town, but then you need to provide me with an alternative world, but you fail to do that. (by calling me scum).
When I have to be scum for your reads to add up, I know you are wrong.

When everyone else has to rely on your word that you're town for your reads to make sense, your reads don't carry much weight.

Here's the problem I have with your reads. You base them on "worlds." In a world where player X is scum, A-B-C should do this. In a world where X is town, A-B-C should do that. The problem is that you don't actually consider the playstyle of A B and C. You project what you would do in their position, then base your read of them as to whether they match up to that projection. You're not really reading people as town/scum - rather, you're reading them as duppin/not-duppin.

Possible scum: Brunneis, Ranger, Persivul, Maxwell and Errant.

Brunneis by my top scum at the moment simply based on day 1. Sure you can keep pushing the "trying to set up a mislynch" agenda all you want to, but I know I am town so it's irrelevant.

An argument showing you to be scummy isn't irrelevant because you know you're town.

I'm curious though, does my alignment change your read on Brunneis? Please just consider me to be town for a moment - that means that your read about me trying to set up a mislynch is wrong. Does that change your read on Brunneis? Knowing that no one is trying to setup a mislynch? (At least not me).

Brunneis was the leading train day 1. The votes on them were: GrayFoxxxx, Fire Hermit, Trivium and goodmorning.
That's 1 SK, and three confirmed town.

Then makara (Persivul's slot) voted on Trivium, even though Brunneis was the leading train. Why?

Makara changed from ika to Trivium in 441. He had previously pressured trivium moreso than brunneis, and here explains that, with 12 hours in phase, he felt trivium was the better choice of the two.

In the next post 442, you move from no vote to Trivium.

Why is it suspicious for makara to vote trillium instead of brunneis, when you did the same thing in the next post?

Also If I was scum, I would have chosen to lynch Brunneis day 1 and keep Trivium around for a mislynch day 2, not the other way around.

So makara did the same as you, and the opposite of what you think scum would have done, yet you point out his vote and ask "Why?" as if it's suspicious.

Anyway, I have no idea why makara would vote on Trivium instead.

Because he thought trivium was more likely to be scum. Read his ISO. This was nothing new.

I know I voted on Trivium as well after this, but the trains were even and I've already explained why I put my vote on Trivium. Should also be fairly obvious me and Brunneis aren't scum buddies.

Yep, what's fine for you to do is suspicious when makara did it one post earlier, even though it was completely consistent with mak's posting to that point.

If Brunneis was town, I see no reason for makara to do this as scum. If makara was town, it would've made more sense, but that would mean that the team would be Ranger, Errant and Maxwell, and I do not believe Ranger and Errant could be aligned, which means Brunneis would have to replace one of them (in case makara was town), which means that they are still scum.

So you find that makara's actions on their own make more sense as town than as scum. But, you need the slot to be scum to fit your desired conclusion, so you ignore your own analysis.

[Errantparabola]

brunn and Duppin, Ill iso pers when i have time. hes sort of flown under the radar for me, nothing pinging. But ill look more closely.
Also Max, who do you think is the team, and who's your top scumread?
Sorry if you have already answered this, im phoneposting and its a hard life.

[duppin]

Persivul, you have to realise that I know there is a scum between you and Brunneis, because I do not believe a Errant/Maxwell/Ranger team is possible, because I can't see Errant and Ranger be aligned. This has nothing to do with me basing my reads around anyone being scum. This is really simple PoE.

I've been stating multiple times it is possible that Brunneis is indeed town, but then you are definitely scum. It's so obvious to me, but I also realise that I have the advantage that I know I am town so I can't blame people for not seeing it.

I'm pretty sure Errant is town as this point to be honest. I mean like Ranger, Makara and Brunneis all voted on Errant day 1 (doubt all of them are scum though). Overall gameplay seems towny to me. I really like Errant as town.
Still, that leaves me with Ranger, Persivul, Brunneis and Maxwell. I think the safest option is to lynch Persivul or Brunneis at this point. Still not entirely sure what to make of Ranger, and I really want to hear from Maxwell. He hasn't really done anything at all since day 1.

Persivul the reason I'm questioning Trivium's vote is because I know there is at least one scum between the two of you and Brunneis was the leading vote when he voted on him.

[duppin]

And Persivul saying I'm not basing my read on playstyles is obviously not true at all.

I sincerely doubt Errant and Ranger could be aligned based on their interactions and I'm pretty sure Errant is town.
Ranger has a pretty good ISO I'd say. (ironically enough, I recall you saying the same thing yesterday).
I thought makara was suspicious and you've said nothing to change my mind. And I dislike the connection between your slot and Brunneis.
Brunneis (Taly) has been overreacting to everything I've said pretty much all game. Like check his posts, its like this: WHAT!? duppin you are

too awesome

,

TOO DAMN AWESOME!

. I don't consider this a town tell.

I've been engaging with Kling a couple of times, and I get the impression she has been trying to avoid me. I didn't like her initial read on me nor did I like how she suddenly changed her read on me. Taly's opinion on this doesn't matter, because fact is Kling didn't call me suspicious at all until confirmed townies pushed on me. Taly has been pushing this whole "setting up for a mislynch" thing all game long, but I personally think that's bullshit. If this was about setting up a mislynch, I fail to see why scum would not choose to do it the other way around. I also dislike the absurd conclusions. Like I say something and Taly comes out of nowhere and tries to twist it.
He claims I refuse to look at what is happening in the game, but how does that even make sense? Yesterday he claimed that I was scummy for never considering GrayFoxxxx and whatever. That's nonsense.
What he fails to understand is that I have considered every possible world, yet at the moment I still find him more suspicious. For some reason he can't accept this and gets really frustrated. Yesterday he questioned why I didn't push for GrayFoxxxx instead of him, but how does that even make sense? Why would I not push for my top scum? Why does he think this means I haven't considered GrayFoxxxx, when I obviously had. Our interactions yesterday were pretty bad to be honest, because we just kept repeating ourselves.
Ika thinks Taly's interactions with me are coming from a town perspective, and that is certainly possible, but it could just as well be a scum play and I based on the overall game I am leaning towards believing they are scum.

Overall, I think Taly is overreacting a lot and it makes it a bit difficult for me to read the slot, which is why I'd rather talk to Kling. Of course Taly thinks this is yet another scumtell, but if he is truly town I hope he realises I am doing him a favour, because if it wasn't for Kling I would've voted on him.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I think there is way to much appeal to emotion coming from both heads of Brunneis. Not sure I like communicating with the slot, but only because there is no practical benefit to doing so if I want a lynch to go through. Never engage your scum read unless you have to or what not.