Open 616: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

[itlepip]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

Do you want to hazard who the 4th scum is and completely figure out the game?

Also given that there is no vote on that massive scum find, I am pretty sure that was just a massive fence sit

VOTE: DiamondSentinel
Sharky is still probably scum.

[DiamondSentinel]

That game's over, so I can quote it now!

Go read Antihero v. Fakegod day 1. You will see my reasons for not voting. It will better explain than I can now. I'm being serious here. I'm in no mood to explain why I won't vote.

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, since I'm fast approaching hammer (dumbasses) can I get a votecount?

[itlepip]

That game's over, so I can quote it now!

Go read Antihero v. Fakegod day 1. You will see my reasons for not voting. It will better explain than I can now. I'm being serious here. I'm in no mood to explain why I won't vote.

Alright, I am going to assume you are just new here so here is an explanation from Thor from my noob game as to why having votes in play is important (copyright Thor 2015 used for educational purposes)

Spoiler: education for diamond

Basically, during the day phase and barring certain specific roles, the town has two tools available to them; their words, and their vote.
Functionally, you are q=arguing that 50% of your tools don't matter as long as you use your words to describe where your vote should be.
Your reason to do this is to, and I roughly paraphrase; avoid fear of a quicklynch and to give the replacement time to change your mind.

Okay, let's address your two raised concepts first and why I think they're both silly;

1. Quicklynch - functionally, I have only seen this happen maybe 10% of my games, and only in newbie games, and usually it actually has been a decent scumhunting tool about 50% of the time the next day phase as I only really have seen a bone-headed lynch happen that way exceedingly rarely. So even if this was an issue to fear, I think it is a small fear. Also, Aero's slot has 1 (one) vote on him, so...y'know, even if you did vote him it would still take a three player sudden blitz to manage the quicklynch. So, yeah....*maybe* that's something to fear...but even if it is - it's not applicable here and to an Aero vote, so why act like it is?

2. Give the replacement time to change your mind - can he not do this with a vote on him? Last I checked an 'unvote' option existed, so at that stage you can have the vote on him and make it clear what your intents are. So, how would having a vote on him prevent his ability to change your mind? It wouldn't. So how is this applicable? It isn't.

Okay, so I've shown why both of your raised counters are unapplicable to this specific situation, and/or unapplicable to any situation and also that the actual danger of quicklynch is pretty rare even if it is a major fear to your soul. But showing that your issues against doing it are silly, does not actually support my concept that your vote *should* be in play, so allow me to present my reasons for why it should.

1. I offer this; http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _Your_Vote

2. Secondly, you point out that as long as you make it clear whom you suspect that is fine - I suggest that it is not. In pro-town sense, late in the game, when people are looking for info, the easiest way to quickly assess who people scum read is to iso the mod and look at vote counts. If your reads always require people to iso you to learn your top scum read at any given point you are adding work to their efforts to track people's reads - I can see how that is helpful to scum and a hinderance to town and do not see how it is helpful to town. So, for the ease of quick analysis I submit that having a vote in play as often as possible and on your top suspect is strongly pro-town for ease of info tracking late game.

3. Thirdly, though this touches again on my first point, I do think it is a strong issue. A vote is a little more serious than words. Maybe not a lot, but saying you suspect someone and never voting them looks scummy to me - so having a playstyle where you offer suspicion but don't back it up with the most tangible in-game proof of suspicion just, in a general sense, makes you come across as skeevy and/or limpwristed, and neither is a pro-town energy and neither strikes me as more helpful (or equally helpful) to just putting your money where your mouth is and placing the vote - so even if you're *null* on my points above, as a simple favor to me and/or to look less scummy to me - just put your vote in play, unless you disagree with why I zap your stated fears and/or have new fears.

I am going to leave my vote on you until you vote.

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm not saying I won't vote. But on day 1 especially, I am very cautious with my vote. I realize this is the least worrisome time to use it, but I am still cautious.

[itlepip]

I'm not saying I won't vote. But on day 1 especially, I am very cautious with my vote. I realize this is the least worrisome time to use it, but I am still cautious.

WHY! Did you read the post, in the meta on this site withholding your vote is scummy and doesn't help town, what evil thing can happen to you if you vote on your scum reads?

[lilith2013]

Just so you know guys according to meta asp will tunnel me then flake day 2.
I am now joining any games with vedith and jester in.
I'm getting gut scum on lilith. Reminds me of New scum in newbies.

@Lillith - Talk to me about Random

I haven't seen you take a step over there for a while, and that is where your vote is.

-Vedith

Talk to me about lilith.

Please explain how you have a scumread on me. You have a gut scumread on me so why aren't you voting me?

Cause Not_Mafia's not mafia. Duh.

I'm gonna swiftly escape the Diego wagon to avoid suspicion now.

VOTE: Diamond

Smooth.

Any reason you unvoted Diego other than to get off the wagon? Has your view on him changed since you voted him?

Can you answer my question, Jester?

[Sharky5x]

lilith finally posted. I wanted to see if she'd get defensive / ignore me or whatever. she acted like i didnt say anything, probably more likely to be town than scum
UNVOTE:
VOTE: itlepip
after being pressured by vedith you immediately do the oppurtunistic thing and go for the person who voted without explaining (with it turning out to be a reaction test)
noice

I WAS ALREADY VOTING YOU! Unless you really don't want to explain your read you are so proud about and are hiding it behind this OMGUS, I have no idea what you are doing.

wat read are you talking about exactly
you unvoted then voted again to make it a serious vote.. right? otherwise i have no idea what you are doing either

yes, that was it, why were you OMGUSing a vote that was already in play? Answer my question please!

"Yes I voted you again to make it serious"
"Why did you OMGUS a vote already in play?"
clearly it wasnt already in play
"wat read are you talking about exactly"
i kinda need you to answer this to answer your question m8

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

i dont believe i've ever interacted with random directly lol

I'm not saying I won't vote. But on day 1 especially, I am very cautious with my vote. I realize this is the least worrisome time to use it, but I am still cautious.

WHY! Did you read the post, in the meta on this site withholding your vote is scummy and doesn't help town, what evil thing can happen to you if you vote on your scum reads?

diamond is anti-town, not scummy imo. he could be scum, he could not be.

[Diego1487]

Right now I have Lilith, itlepip, MOHIS, and duppin as town. Lilith is playing her town game from the game I played with her earlier. Itlepip isn’t letting Diamond go quietly. Right now, scum could sit back and relax at this point of this game, he isn’t. MOHIS is looking to take town leader role early on, and I don’t see either scum!firebringer or scum!vedith doing that in a game where they could sit back and scum troll. Duppin is quietly doing his own thing…avoiding the fluff for the most part.

I do not like diamond response to pressure. 150 is his response, and it’s nothing but fence sitting. He posts a readlist that contains zero information that be held against him. 153 reeks of nervous scum.

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

[itlepip]

@Sharky, how was it not in play, you were being voted by me? How is that not in play. The Lilith read was my question but you rescinded it so it no longer applies.

[DiamondSentinel]

Holy shit, you guys are comedy gold! Maybe I should just stick to theme games. I'm already sucking at first non-theme. Anyways, how about you guys not lynch me and do some actual scumhunting. That'd be nice, please and thank you.

[itlepip]

Holy shit, you guys are comedy gold! Maybe I should just stick to theme games. I'm already sucking at first non-theme. Anyways, how about you guys not lynch me and do some actual scumhunting. That'd be nice, please and thank you.

VOTE: Diamond
VOTE: Diamond
VOTE: Diamond
VOTE: Diamond


"Hey guys, please don't vote me. Thanks! I know you have some questions for me, but I think it is better to just ask to be townread then actually address any of you, Byeee"

[DiamondSentinel]

I answered your questions, besides the one about the vote on Diego, which I have nothing to base it off of. I haven't seen anything scummy, and the same people who are trying to lynch him are now trying to lynch me. That leaves nothing to be said.

[DiamondSentinel]

If I'm missing any questions then kindly ask them.

[itlepip]

Why are you not voting? Saying 'cause I don't do that ' doesn't really cut it for me. Either give a reason for not voting or vote.

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm not voting because I don't see anything worthy of my vote.

[Diego1487]

If I'm missing any questions then kindly ask them.

Right now, I'd take a statement about a single player that we could hold you to on D2.

[itlepip]

Anyways, read list from last 2 pages.

The Jester is either town, or wolf among more sheep-like wolves. He seems very up-front, and this is usually associated with town. However, I also make sure to keep in mind the opposite, as my first game went terribly after I town-read 2 of the scum because they acted TOO townlike.
My Other Head Is Scum is acting townlike, but in a buddy-ish sort of way. That makes me VERY cautious of him. I'm not sure about him at all. He's in a null-scum for me right now.

I honestly think random, itlepip, and Sharky are all scum. Their interaction is just ridiculous.

YOU HAVE THREE SCUM READS, VOTE FOR ONE OF THEM!

[DiamondSentinel]

Nobody is acting scummy enough to merit my vote currently. The only ones I'd consider are Jester and MOHIS, and neither or them are strong enough.

PEdit: statement about single player... Hmm

If Jester plays aggressive town, I will almost guarantee he's town.


I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but that's all I got.

PPEdit: None of them are strong enough.

[DiamondSentinel]

Holy shit, I just realized I'm a moron.

Let's see, I dunno, I guess I'll VOTE: My Other Face is Scum.

That seems good enough.

[DiamondSentinel]

You see, I forgot there was only the doctor in this setup as a PR, so the odds are astronomical of actually lynching him. And besides, what kind of IDIOT wouldn't claim doc if he was about to get lynched.

[itlepip]

Nobody is acting scummy enough to merit my vote currently. The only ones I'd consider are Jester and MOHIS, and neither or them are strong enough.

PEdit: statement about single player... Hmm

If Jester plays aggressive town, I will almost guarantee he's town.


I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but that's all I got.

PPEdit: None of them are strong enough.

So you have a total of 5 scum reads, but none of them are scummy enough for you to vote?

This is 100% lynch level fence sitting, why is he not dead yet?

PEdit: finally voted, I still suggest lynching.

[Diego1487]

Holy shit, I just realized I'm a moron.

What thought process led to this sentence?

[itlepip]

Holy shit, I just realized I'm a moron.

What thought process led to this sentence?

He realized he might be able to dodge a lynch if he votes, so he votes.