Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Megafan1998]

Sorry Greatvalue, you do your thing and when you fullclaim I'll start to follow you

[Greatvalue]

Fine. I figure scum's been trying to read into my posts and play anyway so whatever. I'm a Neapolitan, confirmed Titus/Concorde and Phantom as VTs. Didn't want to claim this earlier because it's forcing a massclaim but we have most players claimed already or at least heavy hinting (Titus' posts were all clearly non-PR to any scum looking).

And then we have Gumby and Mega practically cleared due to setup synergy (this is what I meant repeatedly earlier on, and knowing how Quil likes to design games w/ his personality too).

Town Vanilla Cop
Town Cop
Town Variant Deputy
Town Miller

The miller is a triple red herring - you have three non-alignment investigatives and then one miller to throw smoke in the mix. Search miller in Quil's post history and his attitude toward them supports adoption of millers without regular cops, not to mention he also likes being over the top clever with design.

The way Mega claimed deputy and the very specific interpretation is very town convinced with the two starter investigatives. I don't think I got rolecopped either. The way Neapolitan and Vanilla Cop work when overlapping, you can actually get guilties on Mafia Goons. We are dealing with one Goon left, most likely, and I think Quail's "Mafia must be a strong PR" is intentionally far off. I mean he has to say that to support his crazy early vig claim.

I also don't think there are any PRs left because that would dilute the power of these investigatives too much. And any sort of town role that can prevent kills with these investigatives around seems far fetched. Another point against Quail.

Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Town Neapolitan
Town Vanilla Cop
Town Deputy (Mega what do you flip as? With the variant note or not? If not it seems to support the miller having extremely swingy believability which sounds right design wise)
Town Miller
Vanilla Townie x8

And I think that is the setup.

[Greatvalue]

Plus Gumby is continually town as fuck anyway. Shady's points don't stand against multiple towntells.

[Greatvalue]

I'm expecting people to look at that and then the miller and say shit like, "There's three role cops but no alignment cop? Then no fucking way there's a miller!" My response is just... it's 2015 and Quilford likes to think he's clever. So yeah.

Don't underestimate the strength of a Neapolitan, Vanilla Cop, and Deputy trio setup wise, that's a really strong combo that can pretty much cut the field in half like it did here. The Miller both mitigates that in terms of setup confusion and in terms of being unable to investigate it at all.

And again since Mega claimed Deputy I really don't think there's a Vig alongside these.

[Greatvalue]

Lastly before I go to sleep,

N*obody e*ven a*nswer, p*lease. *

I crumbed "Neapo". Always avoided using a smiley icon afterward. Normally this wouldn't mean too much other than letting me think I'm clever postgame, but right now there really is no other option than to accept the premise that I am town (Yadtm's flip and Mega's prior claim go so closely hand in hand with mine) and then accept the other premises standing on top of that.

[Greatvalue]

N1 - Quail, not VT
N2 - Concorde, VT
N3 - Phantom, VT

[Greatvalue]

Actually one last thing. We have two ways to play this.

We can lynch NA or Shady today (huge preference on NA between those two) and have Mega vanilla cop Quail tonight to see if he's a Goon. If Mega gets killed over me then I'll be clearing someone tonight anyway, Gwen or whoever wasn't lynched above. This is assuming the rest of town is VTs which is imperative to sort today so Mega or I can get at least one meaningful result.

Or we can just lynch Quail. Because I'm impatient, but the other plan seems to cover bases.

[Natural Aristocracy]

We could just lynch Quail, 'cus I'm town.
It's good to see that even having a supposedly strong role doesn't make you any better at reading the game, you dink.

[The Phantom of the Opera]

N3 - Phantom, VT

Vote: Quailford...

...

LOL

[Gumby]

N1 - Quail, not VT
N2 - Concorde, VT
N3 - Phantom, VT

Okay so basically Greatvalue is town and so are Phantom and Titus

VOTE: Quailford LOL

Mehhhhhhhhhhhh, basically. I've been iffy of them since fairly early on and nothing's really convinced me otherwise.

[The Phantom of the Opera]

You just named everyone that is provable town via various associations (minus Gumby). I mean, this isn't strong townread town. This is only short conf. town via investigation town.

[Shady]

i think we just lynch quailford today unless anyone claims a role that could have plausibly prevented the kill (and i'm not gonna do that)

[Megafan1998]

hey guys i think greatvalue is town

[Megafan1998]

UNVOTE:

[Megafan1998]

Neapolitan is honestly a shit role tho, just saying irrelevant to this game.

[Megafan1998]

Before we do shit we should plan what we're doing tonight as well.

[Shady]

hey guys i think greatvalue is town

i realized i didnt make this clear earlier but yeah i think so too

[Shady]

the neapolitan + nonspecific investigative backup click together really well

[Quilford]

• Votecount 4.4
  
  
  Quailford LOL (3)— Greatvalue, The Phantom of the Opera, Gumby
  Greatvalue (1)— Spider Gwen
  Natural Aristocracy (1)— Quailford LOL
  Shady (1)— Titus
  
  
  Not Voting
  (3)— Natural Aristocracy, Shady, Megafan1998
  
  It takes 5 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-11-26 08:48:45).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Titus is on V/LA.
  
  Prodding Spider Gwen.

[Spider Gwen]

Value just freaking scum claimed! Did none of you noticed she just claimed Deadle's role with the addition of knowing who's town or not? So let's see... A Vanilla Cop with access to knowledge of who's town. Sounds like a scum version of Deadle's role to me. And when you don't fall into "Let's clear everyone who claims a PR mode" it makes sense for scum to have that power. Does anybody seriously expect for all the investigatives that Mega can back up to be town? Both town and scum having a VC makes sense. It's a weak investigative for town and a way for scum to find PRs. Mixing a VC and a more powerful version of it in town, on the other hand, doesn't. It's just not good game design. The other way is. You know what else is good game design? Putting a limited shot vig into a single ball large game. Increased kill count makes the game go faster. In short, Quail's role makes sense as town, while Value's does not. The sad part is that we're probably looking for another scum butt now, because Value's not playing the long game for herself. Somebody else is meant to go the distance here while she distracts us for a couple of days.

[Greatvalue]

I don't know what to say.

You made that post off a prod and now it just looks to me like you're scum who was discouraged at being in a shit spot after my claim and lurked for lack of something decently believable to say. And now you're either trolling, or actually trying but pulling it out of your ass.

And we already know you're not Titus. And you implied not being DGB. So... I'm back at square one with this 3-pool. Again.

[Greatvalue]

I mean after a search you haven't even been prodded once before this and it's coming after I've claimed to narrow down the field and while I revealed my full innocent results and setup analysis.

I know this should be null but it's annoying as fuck how every single one of you three keeps insisting on working your way back into the center of my scumreads when I finally think I've managed to narrow it down a bit. Even more annoying when it's literally only you three (and Shady) who can be scum right now.

[Greatvalue]

I just can't believe that as any alignment you would legitimately think that's in any way a valid argument you could be making there. It's almost completely unreadable on that level because it's that surprising.

If you want to talk setup design for real, look at the last Secret Alt Mafia. Look at how Quilford likes to design in his only other recent game, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=62826.

[Spider Gwen]

That post had nothing to do with my being away. I had legitimate reasons for that. Your claim does not make any sense as town. And linking other Quil games proves that. Neither game features redundant roles on the same side. And both games feature a lot more town power than we've seen claimed, both on the town and the scum side. Your claim makes perfect sense as scum. Quail's makes perfect sense as town. And it makes perfect sense that there's still a town protective role out there keeping their head down. Your admitting you're not DGB helps in that it shows that you can't be that terrible. So another nail in your coffin. And you're going to have to put me down either with lynch or kill, because until one of us is dead, I'll continue to proclaim from the rooftops about you having scum claimed.

[Quailford LOL]

Value just freaking scum claimed! Did none of you noticed she just claimed Deadle's role with the addition of knowing who's town or not? So let's see... A Vanilla Cop with access to knowledge of who's town. Sounds like a scum version of Deadle's role to me. And when you don't fall into "Let's clear everyone who claims a PR mode" it makes sense for scum to have that power. Does anybody seriously expect for all the investigatives that Mega can back up to be town? Both town and scum having a VC makes sense. It's a weak investigative for town and a way for scum to find PRs. Mixing a VC and a more powerful version of it in town, on the other hand, doesn't. It's just not good game design. The other way is. You know what else is good game design? Putting a limited shot vig into a single ball large game. Increased kill count makes the game go faster. In short, Quail's role makes sense as town, while Value's does not. The sad part is that we're probably looking for another scum butt now, because Value's not playing the long game for herself. Somebody else is meant to go the distance here while she distracts us for a couple of days.

I know I am town, my perspective is biased. But I totally buy this.

VOTE: GreatValue