Blitz 11: Pick Your Power X/Y (Game over!)

[Persivul]

1. Are you fucking kidding me? Jeanne, do NOT answer this question yet.

No, I'm not fucking kidding you. It's very reasonable to interpret 65 as a neighborizer soft. But she's now implying that she has a more important role than that. What gives? Suppose doc protection goes to her based on her recent hints and cop gets killed, then it turns out she is a neighborizer. Would you be happy with that?

[Persivul]

You know, I was all full and well ready to hop onto Jeanne then you came in here and basically scumclaimed for me.

Oh please, don't try to pin rolefishing on me. As noted, I spotted her soft earlier and kept my mouth shut about it until others made it an issue.

[Persivul]

I was all full and well ready to hop onto Jeanne

Why?

[Hinduragi]

I saw it the same way as that soft claim. But she isn't claiming. Not until she's at L-1 like anyone else.

You do realize scum have the most incentive to prioritize the doc role slot, right? HELLO.

Doctor OR Roleblocker

That's immediately the first role I looked at where I said "If Aronis or Umlaut pick this before me, they're probably scum. You get to remove the possibility of a doctor and get an RB. Until we are at the stage of the game where we massclaim, stop assuming "town has such and such" role and start assuming scum have every decent PR. Jesus Christ.

[Hinduragi]

You know, I was all full and well ready to hop onto Jeanne then you came in here and basically scumclaimed for me.

Oh please, don't try to pin rolefishing on me. As noted, I spotted her soft earlier and kept my mouth shut about it until others made it an issue.

You are rolefishing and your questions are abysmal. One is specifically asking her to claim and is completely unwarranted and another is asking her "why so defensive". Like, barring the fact that she's obviously claimed PR a million times, it's pretty obvious why she's defensive and no, I'm not going to answer this for her and give her a town perspective and scum perspective on her own question. Then you're immediately voted and quote all of someone's vote posts and try to make them look bad.

[Hinduragi]

I was all full and well ready to hop onto Jeanne

Why?

I'll explain later when it's relevant and so the cat isn't out of the bag before the big surprise party even happens.

[Hinduragi]

And for the record, I just want to reiterate to everyone: don't assume any alignment has any certain roles. It's possible that the first people to pick a certain role slot could've ALL been scum and that the town has no pr's at all because they all went for those slots. No, it isn't likely and obviously you know if you're a PR or not. Save this info for another day. Mafia have more information about this than we do obviously and can operate under that. The game's the same as always. Informed minority, uninformed majority. You know the deal.

[ika]

Off to work might not be back till late

[Persivul]

I saw it the same way as that soft claim. But she isn't claiming. Not until she's at L-1 like anyone else.

Since the soft claim is obvious, either:

1. She has in effect claimed already; or
2. She's lying.

My questioning her is therefore null in case 1, or perfectly reasonable in case 2.

You do realize scum have the most incentive to prioritize the doc role slot, right? HELLO.

Doctor OR Roleblocker

If I were scum I would have prioritized the cop slot. Cops are much more dangerous than docs. Prevent a cop, then take out the higher draft picks while the doc protects the lower ones.

That's immediately the first role I looked at where I said "If Aronis or Umlaut pick this before me, they're probably scum. You get to remove the possibility of a doctor and get an RB. Until we are at the stage of the game where we massclaim, stop assuming "town has such and such" role and start assuming scum have every decent PR. Jesus Christ.

I'm assuming nothing. I'm reading a soft claim for what it appears to be, just as you did.

[Persivul]

You are rolefishing and your questions are abysmal.

The cat was already out of the bag with the soft claim. You can't role fish a role that's already been revealed.

One is specifically asking her to claim and is completely unwarranted

Nowhere did I specifically ask her to claim.

and another is asking her "why so defensive".

A common question in mafia.

Like, barring the fact that she's obviously claimed PR a million times, it's pretty obvious why she's defensive

She took a few votes - no, that's not an obvious reason for town to be defensive.

and no, I'm not going to answer this for her and give her a town perspective and scum perspective on her own question. Then you're immediately voted and quote all of someone's vote posts and try to make them look bad.

His series of votes with no reasoning make him look bad. This is something else that's commonly pointed out in mafia.

[Hinduragi]

You're asking her to claim. That's not happening.

What gives? Suppose doc protection goes to her based on her recent hints and cop gets killed, then it turns out she is a neighborizer. Would you be happy with that?

I misread this as you saying you wanted doc protect to go to her. But no, this is even worse logic. Because 1.) it assumes we have a doc and 2.) it assumes we have a cop and 3.) it assumes NK goes to her, a scummy individual. There's no reason to even care about this. There's too many theoreticals for it to matter and a NK is going to be unpredictable by nature. We don't know anything about the role layout. We don't need to know anything about it. And there sure as hell isn't going to be doc protects just because someone claims a PR when they could just as easily be scum with that PR.

[Persivul]

I was all full and well ready to hop onto Jeanne

Why?

I'll explain later

when it's relevant and so the cat isn't out of the bag before the big surprise party even happens.

And for the record, I just want to reiterate to everyone: don't assume any alignment has any certain roles. It's possible that the first people to pick a certain role slot could've ALL been scum and that the town has no pr's at all because they all went for those slots. No, it isn't likely and obviously you know if you're a PR or not. Save this info for another day. Mafia have more information about this than we do obviously and can operate under that.

The game's the same as always. Informed minority, uninformed majority. You know the deal

.

Yes, I do know the deal, and so I'm suspicious of people who claim to have reasoning for a position but refuse to share that reasoning for the uninformed majority to evaluate.

[Persivul]

You're asking her to claim.

Quote me.

I misread this as you saying you wanted doc protect to go to her.

As you misread me as asking her to claim.

But no, this is even worse logic. Because 1.) it assumes we have a doc and 2.) it assumes we have a cop and 3.) it assumes NK goes to her, a scummy individual.

Why is she scummy? Oh yeah, you're holding that for now...

There's no reason to even care about this. There's too many theoreticals for it to matter and a NK is going to be unpredictable by nature. We don't know anything about the role layout. We don't need to know anything about it. And there sure as hell isn't going to be doc protects just because someone claims a PR when they could just as easily be scum with that PR.

Do you think docs just role dice to choose whom to protect? Of course they take PR claims along with other factors into account when selecting a target.

[Hinduragi]

I'm not doing quote by quote.

Yes, you can, by shutting up about it and not asking for clarification on someone's role and/or what they mean. Let the lynch run them up.

1. If not neighborizer, what did you mean by 65?

You don't know if you're role fishing or not but it sure as hell looks like you became curious about the role. You're looking for whether or not she's a certain role in asking this, not whether she's scum. I don't need to know nor do I care to know anything else about this question other than that.

Not really. There's a lot more to it than that. I could ask you the exact same thing right now because you've definitely perked up now that people have voted you and it wouldn't accomplish anything except establish what I already know.

Like I said, not answering this for her. This isn't relevant to whether you're scum, she's scum, or anything else. It just helps her formulate a defense by posting possible reasons.

No it doesn't. What makes you look bad, though, is how quick you are to judge him and attempt to make him look bad immediately after he votes you.

[Hinduragi]

You can't see reasons for withholding reasons but there are many. It's kind of hard to see why from a scum perspective anyways though.

Any doc who protects someone who spouted they got a PR on page 1 isn't a doc that's going to be able to protect a cop except by rolling dice. This is seriously irrelevant to the discussion and the fact you're trying to push it further is pretty pointless as it just clogs up this thread. It's not something worth discussing because it's already assuming so many theoreticals and you just find a specific point and keep pushing it further in your nervous defense of yourself.

[Persivul]

I'm not doing quote by quote.

And then you go on to quote me.

Yes, you can, by shutting up about it and not asking for clarification on someone's role and/or what they mean. Let the lynch run them up.

You don't know if you're role fishing or not but it sure as hell looks like you became curious about the role. You're looking for whether or not she's a certain role in asking this, not whether she's scum. I don't need to know nor do I care to know anything else about this question other than that.[/quote]
Nowhere did I ask her for her role. I became curious as to whether she was lying with that soft claim, and that's a legitimate town concern. Her more recent fear-mongering about the dangers of lynching her are inconsistent with a neighborizer role, which is not vital to town and can actually be negative utility.

Not really. There's a lot more to it than that. I could ask you the exact same thing right now because you've definitely perked up now that people have voted you and it wouldn't accomplish anything except establish what I already know.

I have the most posts in the game. It's a misrep to say that I've only perked up now that I've been voted. Why are you lying about that?

No it doesn't. What makes you look bad, though, is how quick you are to judge him and attempt to make him look bad immediately after he votes you.

His votes are bad. Deal with it.

[Persivul]

in your nervous defense of yourself

I almost always take heat D1 and am quite used to defending. This is my VT game. If I were scum and 13th in the draft order, I'd just lay low, see what developed, and join a wagon later in phase.

[Hinduragi]

If we're being smart and sassy about things, I just said quote by quote. I quoted one thing because it was relevant to what I was saying.

"

If not neighborizer

"
You did ask her for her role. And you did so directly. There's no reason that you need to know this as town. There's no reason to make it available for the entire town and mafia to see. If you think she's inconsistent, you can vote her. Asking her "if you're not neighborizer, what does this mean" is not an acceptable way to go about it.

You have. Your posts in the early pages are much different from your posts now.

No. You saying they're bad as soon as he votes you is bad. I don't know when site meta dictated that people post reasons behind their votes but votes without reasons and votes with reasons all have their own place.

[Hinduragi]

in your nervous defense of yourself

I almost always take heat D1 and am quite used to defending. This is my VT game. If I were scum and 13th in the draft order, I'd just lay low, see what developed, and join a wagon later in phase.

Yes, laugh it off. A rather nervous way to go about it and the use of your smilies is forced. There was no reason to mention "this is my VT game". I can see you sitting there typing this out and trying to casually mention "it's my VT game" as you frantically go through posts and quotes to try to defend yourself as soon as 2 votes are on you. In a game with 8 to lynch. That speaks for itself.

[Hinduragi]

I'm going to sleep. Had an exam this morning so I stayed up all night studying and posting here in between and I want to rest before my next class. We'll do this later if you want to go at it.

[Persivul]

If we're being smart and sassy about things, I just said quote by quote. I quoted one thing because it was relevant to what I was saying.

"

If not neighborizer

"
You did ask her for her role. And you did so directly. There's no reason that you need to know this as town. There's no reason to make it available for the entire town and mafia to see. If you think she's inconsistent, you can vote her. Asking her "if you're not neighborizer, what does this mean" is not an acceptable way to go about it.

Asking about what seems now to be a lie is perfectly acceptable. Who are you to say that I should just vote her, but not ask the question?

You have. Your posts in the early pages are much different from your posts now.

NSS. Of course I'm not doing RVS posts at this point.

No. You saying they're bad as soon as he votes you is bad.

Why? What's the proper time delay to make it acceptable to point out a series of bare votes?

[Persivul]

Yes, laugh it off. A rather nervous way to go about it and the use of your smilies is forced. There was no reason to mention "this is my VT game".

Of course there is - it

is

my VT game, some people know that, and others can check my meta. As VT I stir things up D1. It's scum who need to worry about stepping on toes.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

holy cow.. 7 pages overnight?

reading.

[Persivul]

I'm going to sleep. Had an exam this morning so I stayed up all night studying and posting here in between and I want to rest before my next class. We'll do this later if you want to go at it.

Not needed on my part. I disagree with you on theory but you seem to be town motivated, and more of this will let scum coast. I'm going to get some work done and see what everyone else has to say.

p-edit: Good timing, I was just going to call you out for lurking.

[ika]

Well if you got by role what was you pick percsival? Also clocking in bbl