Open 40 - Medical Mafia: GAME OVAH, before 492

[curiouskarmadog]

for the sake of getting conversation started,

vote HonaryHitchhiker

last posted 5 days ago....any comment on BM post about the greg?

also mod, could you please update page one with SPAG being replaced by BM...

[Battle Mage]

actually CKD, i'd like to hear from YOU first. Your last 3 posts have been "what do you think of BM's post about Greg". Are you fishing for the vibe of the town, or do you have a genuine reason to hold back your opinion?
BM

[Geddingsworth]

CKD has been just asking questions and agreeing with people for most of the game, actually.

[curiouskarmadog]

actually CKD, i'd like to hear from YOU first. Your last 3 posts have been "what do you think of BM's post about Greg". Are you fishing for the vibe of the town, or do you have a genuine reason to hold back your opinion?
BM

not sure were the greg tied himself to distad...and I am actually not sure what your case is against him.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD has been just asking questions and agreeing with people for most of the game, actually.

really?! sort of like your post after Bm's comment?

Asking questions is good because you make people declare stances on issues, get the town talking, find out who is lurking...LIke BM's last post, he asked me what I thought of his "case" against Greg. Most likely he just wants to get the town talking...which is good. What have you done to help the town? And to address that I have been "agreeing with people most of the game"...care to provide some quotes to back that up or are you just making things up??

[curiouskarmadog]

actually CKD, i'd like to hear from YOU first. Your last 3 posts have been "what do you think of BM's post about Greg". Are you fishing for the vibe of the town, or do you have a genuine reason to hold back your opinion?
BM

fake edit. not sure

where

the greg tied himself to distad...and I am actually not sure what your case is against him.

[Geddingsworth]

Here's some quotes:

good point, no sure why she posted that...

I am here... I just don't think there is anything going to comment at, at the moment...

Nelly, are you sure you are a doctor? Because that is not what doctors actually do in mafia. (they don't "revive the dead")

I would move my vote, but it is already there

you have got a point....

Nelly makes a good point...

this is a good point, smells of newbie mafia trying to either "befriend" (like you say) or get a quick lynch..either way I do not like it.

I was wrong, though. You've done a lot more than just agree and ask questions, I just wasn't focusing on you when I reread this morning and got that impression.

As for what I've done; I've tried to get people talking when things have dragged too much, I've stated my opinion as often as I think it was reasonable, and I've tried to find who I think is scummiest and voted them. I may not be very good at that last one, but that's what I've been doing.

[Aimee]

Votecount

HonaryHitchhiker (2) -- The Greg, curiouskarmadog

Distad (1) -- Geddingsworth
Geddingsworth (1) -- Nelly632
The Greg (1) -- Battle Mage

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, HonaryHitchhiker, distad, HazzelQ

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

HonaryHitchhiker prodded.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, here is clarification of what i dislike about this post by The Greg.
1. He claims that HazzelQ is scummy, whilst knowing that he is protown. Of course, there is no reason for him to say something like this, so the only intention i can see is the use of the words, "I agree with Distad" in a deliberate attempt to tie them together, or to lend more weight to Distads original case.
then he uses the word 'forced' indicating reluctance to accept HazzelQ as confirmed protown, which is a feeling i would only expect from scum.
Then, in his evident FRUSTRATION, he retorts angrilly that HazzelQ 'exhibited bad town play', when in reality, this was not really the case.
But his last sentence is the real nail in the coffin. He says "as i assume any reasonable protown player would."
Not only is he using the assumption that he is protown in order to validate his argument, his use of the word 'assume' indicates that he is trying to get inside the mind of a protown player. If he was protown, it is unlikely that he would consider this comment to be an 'assumption'.
Furthermore, the sentence itself acts as a sort of peer pressure trap for later in the game. If someone says later "HazzelQ's play was good" the less perceptive members of the town might have been roped in, and end up lynching someone. People can be very impressionable, and subtle attempts like that to tell people what to think, give me very bad vibes.

I will go back and reread the rest of Greg's play later, but i reckon he is as good a Day 1 lynch as any atm.

BM

*Aimee-you probably ought to remove SPAG from the vote count. lol

OK,

Unvote

.

HH, I honestly don't understand your vote. I agree that the nurse claim was probably poorly timed, and I'm a bit peeved myself, but voting for someone who is confirmed town still makes no sense as a pro-town move. If you honestly think he's scum, then wait for a counterclaim before putting a claimed Nurse at L-1. Given the difficulty of NKing the Nurse with so many docs around, scum would benefit a LOT from a Nurse lynch.

Vote: HH

Also, if HazzelQ is not the nurse, the real Nurse should probably counterclaim now. With only 2 scum, a 1 for 1 trade is in our favor.

I have spoken on the claim. I agree with distad that HazzelQ looks very scummy, but in the absence of a counterclaim, I am forced to conclude that Hazzel is simply exhibiting bad town play, as I assume any reasonable town player would.

I agree with this. Especially your point about The Greg saying:

I am forced to conclude that Hazzel is simply exhibiting bad town play,

as I assume any reasonable town player would.

I think that bolded part is a major scum tell. This combined with his earlier suspicious vote...

Vote: The Greg

[distad]

PBPA: The Greg

12 - OMGUS vote on HH
(big gap)
51 - Vote Hazzel stating Gw has a point about nurse not being included. I disagree. Its inclusion in the stats is irrelevent based on how those stats were given.
(big gap)
100 - apologizes for inactivity
102 - suspicious of Nelly (overreacting) and me (misplacing burden of proof), unvotes Hazzel. Again, I disagree. Whether or not I misplaced the burden of proof, I forced Nelly to come out a little and he CERTAINLY did. I'm probably a little biased on this, but I've always felt overreacting defensively is more of a tell than aggressive attacking.
128 - after suspecting Nelly and myself and unvoting Hazzel, he comes back and FoS's Gw, Hazzel and myself, then votes for Hazzel. Didn't you just unvote him?
160 - Votes HH for voting for claimed nurse Hazzel
(big gap)
204 - Agrees with me that Hazzel looks scummy but maintains that nothing should be done unless there is a counterclaim. This is the post that includes the infamous "I am forced to conlude that Hazzel is simply exhibiting bad town play, as I assume any reasonable town player would."
210 - Asks BM to explain vote on Greg

Between the on/off/on/off with Hazzel and post 204,

Vote: The Greg

[The Greg]

*sigh* You're reading too much into a single post. Here is my response, point by point. For reference, this is the post BM is referring to:

OK,

Unvote

.

HH, I honestly don't understand your vote. I agree that the nurse claim was probably poorly timed, and I'm a bit peeved myself, but voting for someone who is confirmed town still makes no sense as a pro-town move. If you honestly think he's scum, then wait for a counterclaim before putting a claimed Nurse at L-1. Given the difficulty of NKing the Nurse with so many docs around, scum would benefit a LOT from a Nurse lynch.

Vote: HH

Also, if HazzelQ is not the nurse, the real Nurse should probably counterclaim now. With only 2 scum, a 1 for 1 trade is in our favor.

I have spoken on the claim. I agree with distad that HazzelQ looks very scummy, but in the absence of a counterclaim, I am forced to conclude that Hazzel is simply exhibiting bad town play, as I assume any reasonable town player would.

Ok, here is clarification of what i dislike about this post by The Greg.
1. He claims that HazzelQ is scummy, whilst knowing that he is protown. Of course, there is no reason for him to say something like this, so the only intention i can see is the use of the words, "I agree with Distad" in a deliberate attempt to tie them together, or to lend more weight to Distads original case.

Here, I was simply stating my position on the claim. I do think that Hazzel looked scummy, and to be perfectly honest I would be suspicious of him (her?) if he hadn't claimed Nurse. Distad shared this view, so I agreed with him. Not all agreement is scummy linking.

then he uses the word 'forced' indicating reluctance to accept HazzelQ as confirmed protown, which is a feeling i would only expect from scum.

Here, you misinterpret my use of the word "forced." It isn't to express frustration, it's to point out that the claim leaves me me with no choice except to change my opinion on Hazzel's alignment.

Then, in his evident FRUSTRATION, he retorts angrilly that HazzelQ 'exhibited bad town play', when in reality, this was not really the case.

Firstly, I don't know where you're getting this "angrily" from. Second, I do feel that Hazzel's play this game has been sub-par. He's been somewhat lurky, provided little content, and his vote on Nelly just looked bizarre. Then he claims Nurse with little provocation, exposing the town's only confirmable role. You may disagree, but I would call that poor pro-town play.

But his last sentence is the real nail in the coffin. He says "as i assume any reasonable protown player would."
Not only is he using the assumption that he is protown in order to validate his argument,

So I'm supposed to post under the assumption that I'm not town?

his use of the word 'assume' indicates that he is trying to get inside the mind of a protown player. If he was protown, it is unlikely that he would consider this comment to be an 'assumption'.

I'll concede the word "assume" may have been a bit strong, but this is how I feel. A player has claimed a confirmable role, everyone has posted, and there has been no counter-claim. Without a counter-claim, I feel that it is unreasonable to argue that the claim is false.

Furthermore, the sentence itself acts as a sort of peer pressure trap for later in the game. If someone says later "HazzelQ's play was good" the less perceptive members of the town might have been roped in, and end up lynching someone. People can be very impressionable, and subtle attempts like that to tell people what to think, give me very bad vibes.

I honestly have no idea what you're getting at here.

[Battle Mage]

rather than fail at fixing the quote tags after trying to break your post in half, ima just respond with numbers to each of your points.

1. Not all linking is scummy, but i do find it especially scummy when this linking is as deliberate as it was from you. You didnt really believe in what you were saying, and yet you made a particular point of making the comment.

2. again, you use the words 'left me with no choice'. This again suggests that you really WANTED Hazzel to be a suspect. Most townies would be very happy that there was 1 more player to cross off their suspect list. You didnt exhibit this.

3. I DO disagree. Nuff said on that point.

4. You don't have to post under any assumptions. thats my point. I just dont like you using your protown-ness as validation for your votes.

Greg is at -2 now i believe. A claim isnt going to reveal much, so i'm happy enough to go through with a lynch here.

BM

*sigh* You're reading too much into a single post. Here is my response, point by point. For reference, this is the post BM is referring to:

OK,

Unvote

.

HH, I honestly don't understand your vote. I agree that the nurse claim was probably poorly timed, and I'm a bit peeved myself, but voting for someone who is confirmed town still makes no sense as a pro-town move. If you honestly think he's scum, then wait for a counterclaim before putting a claimed Nurse at L-1. Given the difficulty of NKing the Nurse with so many docs around, scum would benefit a LOT from a Nurse lynch.

Vote: HH

Also, if HazzelQ is not the nurse, the real Nurse should probably counterclaim now. With only 2 scum, a 1 for 1 trade is in our favor.

I have spoken on the claim. I agree with distad that HazzelQ looks very scummy, but in the absence of a counterclaim, I am forced to conclude that Hazzel is simply exhibiting bad town play, as I assume any reasonable town player would.

Ok, here is clarification of what i dislike about this post by The Greg.
1. He claims that HazzelQ is scummy, whilst knowing that he is protown. Of course, there is no reason for him to say something like this, so the only intention i can see is the use of the words, "I agree with Distad" in a deliberate attempt to tie them together, or to lend more weight to Distads original case.

Here, I was simply stating my position on the claim. I do think that Hazzel looked scummy, and to be perfectly honest I would be suspicious of him (her?) if he hadn't claimed Nurse. Distad shared this view, so I agreed with him. Not all agreement is scummy linking.

then he uses the word 'forced' indicating reluctance to accept HazzelQ as confirmed protown, which is a feeling i would only expect from scum.

Here, you misinterpret my use of the word "forced." It isn't to express frustration, it's to point out that the claim leaves me me with no choice except to change my opinion on Hazzel's alignment.

Then, in his evident FRUSTRATION, he retorts angrilly that HazzelQ 'exhibited bad town play', when in reality, this was not really the case.

Firstly, I don't know where you're getting this "angrily" from. Second, I do feel that Hazzel's play this game has been sub-par. He's been somewhat lurky, provided little content, and his vote on Nelly just looked bizarre. Then he claims Nurse with little provocation, exposing the town's only confirmable role. You may disagree, but I would call that poor pro-town play.

But his last sentence is the real nail in the coffin. He says "as i assume any reasonable protown player would."
Not only is he using the assumption that he is protown in order to validate his argument,

So I'm supposed to post under the assumption that I'm not town?

his use of the word 'assume' indicates that he is trying to get inside the mind of a protown player. If he was protown, it is unlikely that he would consider this comment to be an 'assumption'.

I'll concede the word "assume" may have been a bit strong, but this is how I feel. A player has claimed a confirmable role, everyone has posted, and there has been no counter-claim. Without a counter-claim, I feel that it is unreasonable to argue that the claim is false.

Furthermore, the sentence itself acts as a sort of peer pressure trap for later in the game. If someone says later "HazzelQ's play was good" the less perceptive members of the town might have been roped in, and end up lynching someone. People can be very impressionable, and subtle attempts like that to tell people what to think, give me very bad vibes.

I honestly have no idea what you're getting at here.

[Honary Hitchhiker]

for the sake of getting conversation started,

vote HonaryHitchhiker

last posted 5 days ago....any comment on BM post about the greg?

also mod, could you please update page one with SPAG being replaced by BM...

Sorry for inactivity. Anywho lets see what we got here. We have BM defending Hazzel Q on the nurse claim against Greg. Nothing else much on anybody else besides a few voting on Greg putting him at -2 lynch which I find unnesscary. BM seems to be too willing on a Greg lynch even stating he would like to see a Greg lynch. He misinterprets many of Greg's statement's as well as attacks him with some irrelevant facts.

Hos:BM

I'd like to see how the game contiues on to see whether this is worthy of a vote.

[distad]

So, outside of someone that had a VERY odd "slip", who would you rather vote for?

IMHO, someone shouldn't have to assume how a pro-town player would act unless they weren't actually pro-town, which is probably the main impetus for most (if not all) of The Greg's votes.

[Aimee]

Votecount

The Greg (3) -- Battle Mage, Sir Tornado, distad

HonaryHitchhiker (2) -- The Greg, curiouskarmadog
Distad (1) -- Geddingsworth
Geddingsworth (1) -- Nelly632

Not Voting: HonaryHitchhiker, HazzelQ

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Nelly632 prodded.

[Nelly632]

This thread has had alot of inavtivity and in part I am too blame for that along with others. My thoughts on Geddingsworth have not changed but can for the sake of the game be placed on the back burner for a furture day...

Unvote:

It is interesting to see how the Greg has been reacting now that his vote count has been growing. I am willing to place him at -1 to see what kind of information we can gather from the scenario...

Vote: Greg

[Battle Mage]

hmm, now i'm torn. 2 significant wagons on very suspicious looking people. I cant decide whether to stick with the wagon on Greg, or switch to Hitchiker. hmm...
this wagon certainly built up fast, but i find it hard to ditch a wagon i am so sure is right, when it is nearly complete. :{

vote stands for now.

BM

[Honary Hitchhiker]

hmm, now i'm torn. 2 significant wagons on very suspicious looking people. I cant decide whether to stick with the wagon on Greg, or switch to Hitchiker. hmm...
this wagon certainly built up fast, but i find it hard to ditch a wagon i am so sure is right, when it is nearly complete. :{

vote stands for now.

BM

You would switch to me because I test against you? Isn't that more of a OMGUS vote?

[Honary Hitchhiker]

EBWOP: I meant testfy my bad.

[Battle Mage]

no. You havent provided any evidence for your comments, and i dont see why you havent actually voted for me. If what you said was true, it would warrant a vote. Its like you are posting trash, and YOU KNOW IT. One of your comments about me makes such little gramatical sense, i wonder if you spindried a series of random words and typed them in here*.

BM

*god bless random.org

[Honary Hitchhiker]

no. You havent provided any evidence for your comments, and i dont see why you havent actually voted for me. If what you said was true, it would warrant a vote. Its like you are posting trash, and YOU KNOW IT. One of your comments about me makes such little gramatical sense, i wonder if you spindried a series of random words and typed them in here*.

BM

*god bless random.org

Trash? Can you point out where in my comment was random and made no gramatical sense or so you say.

[The Greg]

rather than fail at fixing the quote tags after trying to break your post in half, ima just respond with numbers to each of your points.

1. Not all linking is scummy, but i do find it especially scummy when this linking is as deliberate as it was from you. You didnt really believe in what you were saying, and yet you made a particular point of making the comment.

So saying "I agree with..." is scummy because it is deliberate? I do believe that Hazzel looked scummy. Distad keeping his vote on Hazzel despite the claim was a point I wanted to comment on.

2. again, you use the words 'left me with no choice'. This again suggests that you really WANTED Hazzel to be a suspect. Most townies would be very happy that there was 1 more player to cross off their suspect list. You didnt exhibit this.

You're still arguing over intonation. I never

wanted

to suspect Hazzel. I suspected Hazzel of being scum, then he claimed nurse, which changed my opinion of his alignment, and I'm glad it did, for the reasons you mention.

3. I DO disagree. Nuff said on that point.

That's perfectly fine, no one said you had to agree.

4. You don't have to post under any assumptions. thats my point. I just dont like you using your protown-ness as validation for your votes.

Every player, be they town or scum, will post under the assumption that they are town. Where did I use my "protown-ness" as justification? I gave a perfectly logical reason for my statement. Since Hazzel has claimed Nurse, and everyone has posted without counterclaim, I conclude that Hazzel is indeed the Nurse, and I feel that other townies should reach the same conclusion. What is wrong with that assessment?

Also, distad, I missed your post while making my defense so I'll respond to it here. First: my back-and-forth, as you call it, on Hazzel. As I have previously stated, my initial vote on Hazzel was for an admittedly weak reason. The game was stagnating, and I felt a bandwagon would help get things moving. Then I had my router failure, and when I returned that vote was no longer needed, so I removed it. When I re-voted Hazzel, I did so because I thought he was scum.

I'm a bit concerned at how quickly my bandwagon grew. I'd guess that at least one scum is on it. Sir Tornado's vote in particular stands out. It looks like he tried to slide onto the wagon using BM's argument without really saying anything original.

[Aimee]

Votecount

The Greg (4) -- Battle Mage, Sir Tornado, distad, Nelly632

HonaryHitchhiker (2) -- The Greg, curiouskarmadog
Distad (1) -- Geddingsworth

Not Voting: HonaryHitchhiker, HazzelQ

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm a bit concerned at how quickly my bandwagon grew. I'd guess that at least one scum is on it. Sir Tornado's vote in particular stands out. It looks like he tried to slide onto the wagon using BM's argument without really saying anything original.

It looks like it stands out because I've not elaborated on it. I've not elaborated on it because I don't have enough time to do that sort of thing before Friday.

[Geddingsworth]

Well I suggest we wait for that.

Meanwhile, Nelly, how has The Greg 'been reacting' since his wagon started growing? I just see him as defending himself.

As far as the wagon goes, I don't like it. That post by The Greg does look suspicious, but a case based on that single post is not worth a lynch.

in that case, you should support me by voting for Greg. Then i can go back and get the analysis to persuade the others, yes?

Can I get that analysis? Or was commenting on the one post all you had?