Mini 1742: game over

[Albert B. Rampage]

a bunch of frustrated people voting you when they could be using their vote somewhere that actually matters.

I have as many votes as you have.

[Taly]

.....

*blinks*

Did I just log on and get misrepped TWICE? Then ignored?

@Taly, I engage but hate walls this game.

Self meta is accurate probably but meta *farts*. You're ignoring your initial opening of RC is scum but vote Wickan.

@RC Sorry for your loss.

1)

Good to know you dismiss everything I said in that post as a hate-wall post. Like wtf?

While you completely disregard any attempt to talk to me about why Ice or RC is a good wagon to pursue - AND answer any fucking question that I have. But that's not the icing on the cake

2)

WHEN did I say that RC was scum for having their RVS vote on FA after he townread her? 40 50

I did throw suspicion, and thought that RC was a good wagon to start - but RC was never a scumread.

Furthermore; why was voting Wickan such a bad thing? I was suspicious of him as well.

Another thing - your hold rebuttal of me self-metaing is complete trash. You go from:

"Self-meta is kind of accurate..."

But then you just dismiss and say meta as if you dismissed the argument as if it were nothing. Yet you say RC and I are scum based on our interactions in our previous game as scum? 334 361 Which btw, is wrong - and that entire sentence was backwards.

talah is nulltown at best because she hasn't added anything beyond FA, Ice, or Wickan - or in general, beyond several pages ago.

Sheesh, talk about your arrows to the heart. And here I was thinking we had nice confident townreads going on one another.

Talah - I am townreading you, it's just null due to not a lot of posting on your part compared to a lot of other content coming up. I don't really see anything that's scum of you, compared our town game last time.

Anyway, I've done a bit more than that actually. I have JohnnyF as town, you as town, Titus townleaning and ABR some nullscum bullshit I can't read unless he decides to play the game. Simple Plan might be lurker-scum.

RC can be town just on principle. I don't see any deceptiveness coming from that area.
Ice I'm going to put back to null for now but I have some interest in getting something better. I've just been lazy and busy.
Frozen I might be mistaken on as scum but I'm keeping an eye on it.

I'll add to that, that what I'm seeing from Titus appears to be classic Titus town play - very little explanation you can actually follow and attempting to lead town with bravado. Surprisingly her possible-scumpool has both ICE and A Simple Plan in it - and although I'd prefer Frozen and ABR in there as well - realistically I'm rethinking both ICE and Frozen so I don't really have a beef with her.

So that's where I'm up to right now. Also I'm probably going to be casual / sporadic with this game I've decided (and this may just be a general playstyle change for me so that I can play mafia consistently rather than in huge work-heavy spurts), so get used to it.

Eh.... I can see Titus town. We get into a lot of shit when we're both town together. But I don't know, tbh..... There's a lot of scummy things I see from Titus.

Short case: Taly's 110, his attempts to insist that his discussion w/ you were TvT and his buddying up to you, and going all the way back to his unvote on me early on, removing pressure. Although he does seem to have dropped the townread on you recently (not sure why, as I'm not sure what you've done differently that prompted it). (Taly will promptly dispute that he ever had a townread on you, but I honestly don't know how else to read 110)

See also my 230 for the short case on RC (although slightly out of date, I think most of it still holds)

Also @ICE: see my question above on the Titus wagon. Is it primarily driven by Titus not explaining her reads?

Pop the brakes for a minute. Wth.

If you're referring to my read on ICE.... I AM townreading Ice, and I've said that in 344 and have said that I was lleaning town on him for awhile.

Why did you think I wasn't townreading him?

Furthermore - why did you say that I'd DENY any kind of townread I had on Ice?

This looks like a calculated misrep.... Especially since you still painted my interactions with Ice - me saying our interaction as TVT - was an attempt to BUDDY him.

.... This deserves a re-vote but I'm not done with Titus and her drone yet.

I'm suddenly grateful

Gratefulness is a great thing.

Except I win even with low effort, that's how good I am. Even gave you a link as evidence

Yeah. This isn't changing my scumread on you.

Thanks for ignoring me the 4th time.

I mean seriously - my responses to your posts in my walls so far have been about 3 sentences. Max.

At least TRY.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I mean you've had more and are still on the table for a lynch to many of those but this conversation isn't going anywhere so you can go ahead and stop. You talking about games you've won with little effort is about as useful as Bells saying how right he often is.

[Titus]

@Johnny I never read upon replacing in. D1 is the most useful day... when read in hindsight. Meta *farts*

That's ABR for you. When ABR and I agree on a lynch, you can bank on it. See Warcraft mafia. We both had Shinobi and TSB in our lynch pools. Both were scum. I wanted Nether he wanted someone else. Ice is scum.

I do want to beat you up for null reads. Yup.

@FA, I would die for Wickan. I am that strong on that read. It's not meta. It's the logical consistency, transparency and there's no coherent evidence against him. Aggression is usually protown if the thought process is clear. Buddying and manipulation are scum tools.

Oh and meta *farts*

@Taly hold on

[Titus]

Firstly I didn't really like his pushes on Wickan and Taly. And I must say I didn't read in depth much of the wallks they'd posted but I felt that Taly was pretty much obvtowning from what I remember of his play.
(note to self I need to check out Taly's 3rd party play)
However, I can perhaps see that as legitimate attempts to sort Taly since he doesn't have to have the same read as me and obviously won't have the same reasons.

Secondly I didn't like how he switched back on me with an argument like "well maybe you really WERE after a speedlynch". I felt it was not thought through and didn't match any of the evidence in the thread, and could have been just a maneuvre to open up another line of suspicion since Frozen was obviously not gaining any support.
I believe he responded to that though, saying he is going to be constantly checking his reads - which is fine and townish enough. It was the lack of thought in the supposition that irked me, though.

Aside from that I have (or had) a general feeling that his reads aren't really becoming clarified. Look I understand that especially as a game goes on sometimes reads *don't* get easier, especially because you're only going to be right in a certain amount of cases, but Day 1 I think optimal lynches should be considered and I don't think your lynch-pool would be getting greyer and greyer. Anyway that point there is mainly feeling. I actually like his most recent post and that's after I'd been doing some reflection on whether his posting was actually coming from a more town perspective. I'm prepared to start thinking about consensus/compromise at this stage.

I agree with this. Town should be open, consistent and transparent. Revisionist history doesn't fly. Determine what something is or isn't and change only with new evidence. My reads on Wickan and ABR are static.

The whole sell me a wagon thing because Wickan won't go through tells me he doesn't want that wagon going through because its scum pushed. You don't compromise from the leading wagon as town, you fight for your wagon.

[Titus]

While you completely disregard any attempt to talk to me about why Ice or RC is a good wagon to pursue - AND answer any fucking question that I have. But that's not the icing on the cake

See prior post.

[Titus]

I did throw suspicion, and thought that RC was a good wagon to start - but RC was never a scumread.

Furthermore; why was voting Wickan such a bad thing? I was suspicious of him as well.

Yeah, that's not how it looked. Throw initial suspicion = scumread.

Cuz Wickan is town.

Change the words push comes to shove, you had the same suspicion level and voted Town over Scum. That's going to ping for me.

[Titus]

Another thing - your hold rebuttal of me self-metaing is complete trash. You go from:

"Self-meta is kind of accurate..."

But then you just dismiss and say meta as if you dismissed the argument as if it were nothing. Yet you say RC and I are scum based on our interactions in our previous game as scum? 334 361 Which btw, is wrong - and that entire sentence was backwards.

Needs Rephrasing.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Titus what happens when Ice flips town?

[Titus]

Titus what happens when Ice flips town?

He won't. Never considered it because I am right.

If he does, I will figure it out later.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote and see. We don't have all the answers but we've been playing this game a long time and have a lot of reasons for voting someone even if we don't verbalize them.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Taly you asked for my reads and I gave them. Ice is scum and needs more votes.

[Wickan]

If you're referring to my read on ICE.... I AM townreading Ice, and I've said that in 344 and have said that I was lleaning town on him for awhile.

Why did you think I wasn't townreading him?

Furthermore - why did you say that I'd DENY any kind of townread I had on Ice?

This looks like a calculated misrep.... Especially since you still painted my interactions with Ice - me saying our interaction as TVT - was an attempt to BUDDY him.

Why did I think you weren't townreading him? Because you weren't.

What I can't seem to understand is - People are throwing associative tells all over me, while criticizing my vote and unvote off of a wagon - and then twisting my questions and answers to have a thought.

Basically... I feel like there is probably scum between:

Ice, Wickan, FA

I'm tossing around Wickan and FA, moreso Wickan as the candidates - what do you think?

I can understand the whole 'Ice oldschool town archetype' but it rubs me the wrong way, I'm not understanding where his heads at, which bothers me. I do agree with John, it does feel like he has an agenda and that's why my read is torn on him.

Plus, I rarely hear town say something like:

"Oh, get over yourself"

Eckh.... Association tells aren't bad D1, but Ice has relied a bit on those on his reads which feels like he's creating a little world that revolves around who needs to be lynched rather than looking at his reads in an individual light. If that's understandable.

The thing that makes me think is - you put out a theory concerning that Wickan and I are scumpair, then Wickan comes in saying that I'm scum buddying you for the back and forth over my vote/unvote on HIM - himself.

From what I'm seeing - I'm being thrown out as an associative with several players at this point - and this isn't even considering Titus saying that I'm scum with RC and you, who you apparently scumread as well.

I don't think people see the how sticky of a situation this is - it causes all kinds of division and miscommunication, and the fact that people discredit me as "woe is me" and "youre a martyr" seriously makes me question their perspective in this game - IE, whether they have an agenda to push something as scum despite what may be presented, or town who actually wants to decipher between the game and work on it.

This is why I considered - and still leaning toward, you being town - and Wickan - being possible scum, for the inconsistencies I've seen of him - and the idea that he hasn't pushed anyone else yet after saying that my wagon isn't going anywhere...

I grant you that you said you were leaning town on him at the end there, but your opinion of him has been decidedly mixed. So to say "I am townreading ICE and have been leaning that way for a while" is disingenous.

[Wickan]

And for the record, I absolutely 100% still believe that 110 was an attempt to buddy ICE. From the "I get in a lot of TvTs, especially D1" to trying to placate ICE's concerns to agreeing with his reads. It all looks like an attempt to deflect ICE's attention away from you and to other people.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Vote and see. We don't have all the answers but we've been playing this game a long time and have a lot of reasons for voting someone even if we don't verbalize them.

I might have voted right now but this just makes it feel creepy. Also I'm still holding the hope that Aspy or his replacement shows up and becomes my number 6 on Wick

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your face is creepy.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Touché

[A Simple Plan]

Dammit, another what, seven pages? Alright, I'll see what I can do after my meeting tonight. Sorry for (again) prod dodging.

[mykonian]

votecount

Wickan (3): JohnnyFarrar, Frozen Angel, ICEninja
Titus (2): Taly, RadiantCowbells
ICEninja (2): Albert B. Rampage, Titus
Albert B. Rampage (1): talah
JohnnyFarrar (1): A Simple Plan
Taly (1): Wickan

not voting (0):

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm just happy that everyone is voting. This game has a lot of promise.

[Titus]

And for the record, I absolutely 100% still believe that 110 was an attempt to buddy ICE. From the "I get in a lot of TvTs, especially D1" to trying to placate ICE's concerns to agreeing with his reads. It all looks like an attempt to deflect ICE's attention away from you and to other people.

I think it was more trying to sell Ice as town ad promote him as the smart man in the thread when he's scum.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I've decided I'm being stubborn and am now broadening my horizons.

In trying to think about this game without actually rereading because fuck that. I have most people in boxes in my head, but there are a couple I have no thoughts about.

What does anyone think about Talah? I got nothing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Derptown voting me whose name is easy to confuse with Taly

[Albert B. Rampage]

Talah "I don't have time to answer right now" then proceeds to write a wall the size of the entire mini normal queue thread.

[JohnnyFarrar]

are you just super free with townreads then?