Mini 1742: game over

[JohnnyFarrar]

"Charm?"

Guess we know what kinda girl you are now



and I'm saying she hasn't done anything out of the ordinary for me.

[Frozen Angel]

what kind of girl am I? :/

[JohnnyFarrar]

you tell me miss 'slave to bad boy bells' =P

[mykonian]

votecount

Wickan (4): ICEninja, Albert B. Rampage, JohnnyFarrar, Taly
A Simple Plan (2): talah, Titus
Titus (2): RadiantCowbells, Frozen Angel
Taly (1): Wickan

not voting (1): A Simple Plan

[Frozen Angel]

nah I'm one of his recruits in cult of annie just it

[Taly]

FA... what was that vote? o_o Blegh.

I'm OK with a Titus lynch... but I don't like re-voting or unvoting after I set myself onto a decision. RC :c - Talk to me moe. I don't really want to change off of Wickan unless Titus becomes the top wagon.

I can see Titus WKing town.... But this is what gets me on that:

4) You gotta try harder. You can't mislynch ABR or Wickan with me being in the way. Haha. Sorry not sorry.

To me, this looks like she's trying to put attention on herself... This looks like a lot for scum to do. Titus must be hella confident. Figures.

But then again... Scum-Titus would know they were really town.... So she'd want a lynch on them that wouldn't involve herself...

That makes sense for her push on SP.

I don't care how Wickan flips in terms of Titus' alignment - her credit to me is below shit already and by the connections of your thought RC - SP+Titus s a real possibility. But I'm having a hard time trying to see Wickan as town...

>>>

Looking at SPs ISO.... I like that he's putting more thought into his reads, but my only wonder is if he ISOed Wickan in depth because that was something that I found suspicious of him....

Gahh.... I'd rather either lynch Wickan or Titus.

It pisses me off that Titus thinks that nobody can articulate why Wickan is scum because I can build a list on that, and I feel kind of dismissed by this notion.

Why haven't you articulated why Wickan is scum then?

Have you read ANY of my posts that aren't about you?

Oh wait - I should know, you even dismissed those type of posts as 'hate-walls'

Taly, I engage but with hate walls in this game.

Spoiler: Why Wickan Should Probably Die - Yeah, it's that long.

But here's my list on why Wickan is scum (Granted, my view on this is slightly changed over what RC said)

1)

This in itself is worth of thinking Wickan is likely scum, but I'm not done yet.

This is how I’m seeing this entire thing play out.

>Ice originally scumreads me and votes me for my vote on Wickan for being opportunistic. 69

>Wickan says that the votes on his wagon was natural. 77

>I defend and explain myself to Ice while telling him why I dislike the case.

>Ice then expands on why my unvote looked like scum trying to hide a 'mistake' 80

>Wickan still doesn't really say anything against that other than that it was weird. (His posts before 113)

>I explain myself further and rebuttal Ice's theory on why Wickan and I are scumbuddies because I unvoted him.

>Ice baits me that I'd have safely voted for him if I were scum - I didn't as I said that I could see him being town. 96

>Wickan is now saying that my original vote on him was opportunistic - after saying his wagon was natural - but then says I'm scum trying to buddy up with Ice. 113

Basically, Wickan's major contradiction about his wagon - it feels like he's jumping at me opportunistically since I've already been given enough shit about a damn vote/unvote on HIM, himself.

2)

406 - He says that I WILL dispute EVER having a townread on Ice - but apparently I'm buddying him too? Even AFTER I said I was saying that I was beginning to see Ice as town?

437 - He then calls me out since I never townread Ice?

(Uh, I guess he didn't read 344)

Then he deems my whole read progression on Ice to be disingenuous. He blatantly misreps my read on Ice, denies me - and still thinks I was trying to buddy Ice after our confrontation on

PAGE 5.

3)

Speaking of him painting my interactions with Ice as buddying...

When is it a bad time to step away from a 1v1 and reconsider your positon?

Because it saves town.

I mean, I get into a lot of 1v1s and dichotomies are corrosive as fuck especially D1 when a lot of the time, scum love to slide in some form.

Most of Wickans vote on me is because I'm scum and trying to buddy up to Ice... It makes zero sense for me to buddy Ice, furthermore - I never thought consideration was dangerous.

4)

Wickans vote has been on me for 500+ posts. He has done absolutely nothing sense then, tbh.... He comes in at intervals that make little sense for town to be input on - and he continues to assert one thing without doing much about another.

His tunnel of me is full of contradictions -

look at the previous points.....

I just can't see this coming from town.

5)

I think Wickan is being bussed, and I still think that... Granted, FA jumping off slightly diminishes that thinking because I couldn't - and still can't, but a name exactly on who could be going after Wickan as a partner. But this whole push-pull on Wickan today in terms of his wagon constantly being the top and not moving much really looks weird.... We need a decision about this, and Wickan not coming in here and speaking much of anything about it makes me think this is scum.

So there. Those are my thoughts on Wickan. I'm open to a Titus lynch provided I see more that overthrows my initial decision on believing Wickan is the better lynch of today.

And I want to look at SP more thoroughly next dayphase.

So yeah. ._.

[Frozen Angel]

we have 2 weeks! lets talk about this.

^ that was my reason But I really have intention to hammer wickan as well

[Titus]

Right, so, here's what's going on with Titus.

I noticed in 1708 where I was scum that there's some phrases, specifically y'all, that she frequently uses as a sort of tic when she gets frustrated or stressed.

Here were the posts from when she was basically getting shit on by half the game for her performance in a previous game.

OF course not.

I just don't vote "compromises" my scumreads are on. Y'all don't care. I get it. Basic people reading is beyond y'all in this game. It's ok.

Hammer Stool. He will flip town.

The last game y'all fucked up. My unorthodox strategies got us to 3p lylo where RC paid the price for her gamethrowing. Surprised she wasn't banned tbh.

I already told you why Stool is going to flip town. I will case him when I have time. Sometimes you know.

@RC + Chaos, and how many scum lynches did y'all get before my "terrible" reads? Chaos moves a few pegs down. If RC is town, I want Chaos for trying to prolong our fight.

If you look at her play in general you see that phrase exceedingly rarely and only when she's under some sort of strain and I had that pegged as a tell for reading her when I played that game.

I believe that considering her use of Y'all there doesn't match up with the stress or frustration tic usage and she doesn't appear to be under any pressure nor could I see it as being appropriate for just being used in general, that it was a conscious decision by Titus to try to soften my read on her. I have reason to believe that my using that as a tell for reading her may have been brought to her attention, and while it could potentially be used by town or scum, given that she's scumreading me I can't see it as at all likely that Town!Titus would be attempting to change my read in that manipulative manner, and think it far more likely that she's scum.

Plus, there's so many things she's said this game that just absolutely don't mesh with the rest of her kit and she's trying to set up battle lines between groups that I suspect badly misrepresent the gamestate. I want her lynched, end of story.

Of course I am frustrated. Obvtown is wagoned for points that haven't been articulated until 653.

Second, my use of y'all is indicative of a collective you all. It usually doesn't relate to frustration unless there is a general pattern of referring to the collective.

Wouldn't you be frustrated if your biggest townread was wagoned for no articulable reason?

[Titus]

Like, I just get such an incredibly strong feeling that she's trying to manipulate this game.
Her just happening to throw out Y'all at that specific time in that specific context just gets my goat.
Not to mention this little number.

Your vote was shit and is always shit regardless of your alignment. If you're legit careless with your vote, why should I believe anything else you do is that thought out?

Like, since 1708 ended and I apologized to her for what I said at the end of 1682 she's been extremely nice to me in general.
This really doesn't mesh at all and it comes in a post that strongly seems to me designed to manipulate how people see the gamestate.
I can't lynch anything else. this is scum.

Both town and scum try to manipulate the game. Persuasion is a friendlier version. I am trying to get you to lynch scum, but I think you're desperate to discredit me for some reason.

[Titus]

Titus obsesses over VCA.

People who obsess over VCA take steps to make sure VCA does not impugn them.

I would be not at all surprised if her partner was in the group of people she wants lynched and all of her townreads are WKs.

So I suddenly adopt a pro bussing strategy which isn't true to avoid a VCA which has been proven that only I do well?

Stop trying to fit everything to a Titus scum view. It's pretty transparent that's what you're doing.

[Titus]

Not on board.

The

way we've avoided Wickan is actually starting to creep me out.

Also edited so it makes sense grammatically

Why not reconsider you Wickan townread and realize that it's a scum driven wagon?

[Titus]

Not on board.

The

way we've avoided Wickan is actually starting to creep me out.

Also edited so it makes sense grammatically

Why not reconsider you Wickan townread and realize that it's a scum driven wagon?

Wickan scumread derp

[Titus]

FA... what was that vote? o_o Blegh.

I'm OK with a Titus lynch... but I don't like re-voting or unvoting after I set myself onto a decision. RC :c - Talk to me moe. I don't really want to change off of Wickan unless Titus becomes the top wagon.

I can see Titus WKing town.... But this is what gets me on that:

4) You gotta try harder. You can't mislynch ABR or Wickan with me being in the way. Haha. Sorry not sorry.

To me, this looks like she's trying to put attention on herself... This looks like a lot for scum to do. Titus must be hella confident. Figures.

But then again... Scum-Titus would know they were really town.... So she'd want a lynch on them that wouldn't involve herself...

That makes sense for her push on SP.

I don't care how Wickan flips in terms of Titus' alignment - her credit to me is below shit already and by the connections of your thought RC - SP+Titus s a real possibility. But I'm having a hard time trying to see Wickan as town...

>>>

Looking at SPs ISO.... I like that he's putting more thought into his reads, but my only wonder is if he ISOed Wickan in depth because that was something that I found suspicious of him....

Gahh.... I'd rather either lynch Wickan or Titus.

It pisses me off that Titus thinks that nobody can articulate why Wickan is scum because I can build a list on that, and I feel kind of dismissed by this notion.

Why haven't you articulated why Wickan is scum then?

Have you read ANY of my posts that aren't about you?

Oh wait - I should know, you even dismissed those type of posts as 'hate-walls'

Taly, I engage but with hate walls in this game.

Spoiler: Why Wickan Should Probably Die - Yeah, it's that long.

But here's my list on why Wickan is scum (Granted, my view on this is slightly changed over what RC said)

1)

This in itself is worth of thinking Wickan is likely scum, but I'm not done yet.

This is how I’m seeing this entire thing play out.

>Ice originally scumreads me and votes me for my vote on Wickan for being opportunistic. 69

>Wickan says that the votes on his wagon was natural. 77

>I defend and explain myself to Ice while telling him why I dislike the case.

>Ice then expands on why my unvote looked like scum trying to hide a 'mistake' 80

>Wickan still doesn't really say anything against that other than that it was weird. (His posts before 113)

>I explain myself further and rebuttal Ice's theory on why Wickan and I are scumbuddies because I unvoted him.

>Ice baits me that I'd have safely voted for him if I were scum - I didn't as I said that I could see him being town. 96

>Wickan is now saying that my original vote on him was opportunistic - after saying his wagon was natural - but then says I'm scum trying to buddy up with Ice. 113

Basically, Wickan's major contradiction about his wagon - it feels like he's jumping at me opportunistically since I've already been given enough shit about a damn vote/unvote on HIM, himself.

2)

406 - He says that I WILL dispute EVER having a townread on Ice - but apparently I'm buddying him too? Even AFTER I said I was saying that I was beginning to see Ice as town?

437 - He then calls me out since I never townread Ice?

(Uh, I guess he didn't read 344)

Then he deems my whole read progression on Ice to be disingenuous. He blatantly misreps my read on Ice, denies me - and still thinks I was trying to buddy Ice after our confrontation on

PAGE 5.

3)

Speaking of him painting my interactions with Ice as buddying...

When is it a bad time to step away from a 1v1 and reconsider your positon?

Because it saves town.

I mean, I get into a lot of 1v1s and dichotomies are corrosive as fuck especially D1 when a lot of the time, scum love to slide in some form.

Most of Wickans vote on me is because I'm scum and trying to buddy up to Ice... It makes zero sense for me to buddy Ice, furthermore - I never thought consideration was dangerous.

4)

Wickans vote has been on me for 500+ posts. He has done absolutely nothing sense then, tbh.... He comes in at intervals that make little sense for town to be input on - and he continues to assert one thing without doing much about another.

His tunnel of me is full of contradictions -

look at the previous points.....

I just can't see this coming from town.

5)

I think Wickan is being bussed, and I still think that... Granted, FA jumping off slightly diminishes that thinking because I couldn't - and still can't, but a name exactly on who could be going after Wickan as a partner. But this whole push-pull on Wickan today in terms of his wagon constantly being the top and not moving much really looks weird.... We need a decision about this, and Wickan not coming in here and speaking much of anything about it makes me think this is scum.

So there. Those are my thoughts on Wickan. I'm open to a Titus lynch provided I see more that overthrows my initial decision on believing Wickan is the better lynch of today.

And I want to look at SP more thoroughly next dayphase.

So yeah. ._.

First part about changing wagons is rather www if I am right and Wickan is town as well (I am). She wants to keep town as the top wagon and that's the primary motivation there.

Then there's a shit ton of theory crafting to overreach and basically discredit. If Wickan is town, Titus is trying to make sure that the wagon doesn't include her. If Wickan is scum, Titus tries to save a buddy. Taly sheeps RC's wagon reasoning (but with totally different words) but then calls RC scum.

Taly's defense of SP is off. There's no evidence of that. ASP posted "this is Wickan's ISO" I find it scummy is not showing depth of thought whatsoever.

I read your posts. I also never called your walls hate walls. I said I hate walls.

Your reasons for Wickan is scum are not reasons. You IioAed the thread and made many contradictions yourself. You complain about Wickan's vote being parked but ignore my highlighting the Wickan wagon has been vote parked since RVS. You deny that you and Ice have been up each other's ass the entire time but in a less transparent manner. You refuse to reconsider your reads or provide analysis on why Wickan is scum.

[Wickan]

Okay, I'm finally back.

RadiantCowbells's post read like a desperate attempt to justify a Titus scumread.

@Titus: welcome to where I've been all game. You're welcome to join me on the Taly wagon.

[Titus]

Tempted. Part of me thinks Taly is trying to recreate 613 to frame RC.

Talk to me about Johnny. Your read there.

[Wickan]

Generally pretty towny, although it's been a bit easy as he's had no pressure. There have definitely been a couple of moments throughout the day that I've looked at and immediately said "that's town." I appreciate his efforts to push for an actual lynch; he seems less satisfied when we're sitting around doing nothing.

I've put off a much closer read until D2.

[Titus]

I have had moments that make me go that's town and that's scum, so it would help me if you went deeper.

[Taly]

Titus.... I cannot believe how horribly you just misrepped and ignored every fucking thing that I said.

Let me digress.

FA... what was that vote? o_o Blegh.

I'm OK with a Titus lynch... but I don't like re-voting or unvoting after I set myself onto a decision. RC :c - Talk to me moe. I don't really want to change off of Wickan unless Titus becomes the top wagon.

I can see Titus WKing town.... But this is what gets me on that:

4) You gotta try harder. You can't mislynch ABR or Wickan with me being in the way. Haha. Sorry not sorry.

To me, this looks like she's trying to put attention on herself... This looks like a lot for scum to do. Titus must be hella confident. Figures.

But then again... Scum-Titus would know they were really town.... So she'd want a lynch on them that wouldn't involve herself...

That makes sense for her push on SP.

I don't care how Wickan flips in terms of Titus' alignment - her credit to me is below shit already and by the connections of your thought RC - SP+Titus s a real possibility. But I'm having a hard time trying to see Wickan as town...

>>>

Looking at SPs ISO.... I like that he's putting more thought into his reads, but my only wonder is if he ISOed Wickan in depth because that was something that I found suspicious of him....

Gahh.... I'd rather either lynch Wickan or Titus.

It pisses me off that Titus thinks that nobody can articulate why Wickan is scum because I can build a list on that, and I feel kind of dismissed by this notion.

Why haven't you articulated why Wickan is scum then?

Have you read ANY of my posts that aren't about you?

Oh wait - I should know, you even dismissed those type of posts as 'hate-walls'

Taly, I engage but with hate walls in this game.

Spoiler: Why Wickan Should Probably Die - Yeah, it's that long.

But here's my list on why Wickan is scum (Granted, my view on this is slightly changed over what RC said)

1)

This in itself is worth of thinking Wickan is likely scum, but I'm not done yet.

This is how I’m seeing this entire thing play out.

>Ice originally scumreads me and votes me for my vote on Wickan for being opportunistic. 69

>Wickan says that the votes on his wagon was natural. 77

>I defend and explain myself to Ice while telling him why I dislike the case.

>Ice then expands on why my unvote looked like scum trying to hide a 'mistake' 80

>Wickan still doesn't really say anything against that other than that it was weird. (His posts before 113)

>I explain myself further and rebuttal Ice's theory on why Wickan and I are scumbuddies because I unvoted him.

>Ice baits me that I'd have safely voted for him if I were scum - I didn't as I said that I could see him being town. 96

>Wickan is now saying that my original vote on him was opportunistic - after saying his wagon was natural - but then says I'm scum trying to buddy up with Ice. 113

Basically, Wickan's major contradiction about his wagon - it feels like he's jumping at me opportunistically since I've already been given enough shit about a damn vote/unvote on HIM, himself.

2)

406 - He says that I WILL dispute EVER having a townread on Ice - but apparently I'm buddying him too? Even AFTER I said I was saying that I was beginning to see Ice as town?

437 - He then calls me out since I never townread Ice?

(Uh, I guess he didn't read 344)

Then he deems my whole read progression on Ice to be disingenuous. He blatantly misreps my read on Ice, denies me - and still thinks I was trying to buddy Ice after our confrontation on

PAGE 5.

3)

Speaking of him painting my interactions with Ice as buddying...

When is it a bad time to step away from a 1v1 and reconsider your positon?

Because it saves town.

I mean, I get into a lot of 1v1s and dichotomies are corrosive as fuck especially D1 when a lot of the time, scum love to slide in some form.

Most of Wickans vote on me is because I'm scum and trying to buddy up to Ice... It makes zero sense for me to buddy Ice, furthermore - I never thought consideration was dangerous.

4)

Wickans vote has been on me for 500+ posts. He has done absolutely nothing sense then, tbh.... He comes in at intervals that make little sense for town to be input on - and he continues to assert one thing without doing much about another.

His tunnel of me is full of contradictions -

look at the previous points.....

I just can't see this coming from town.

5)

I think Wickan is being bussed, and I still think that... Granted, FA jumping off slightly diminishes that thinking because I couldn't - and still can't, but a name exactly on who could be going after Wickan as a partner. But this whole push-pull on Wickan today in terms of his wagon constantly being the top and not moving much really looks weird.... We need a decision about this, and Wickan not coming in here and speaking much of anything about it makes me think this is scum.

So there. Those are my thoughts on Wickan. I'm open to a Titus lynch provided I see more that overthrows my initial decision on believing Wickan is the better lynch of today.

And I want to look at SP more thoroughly next dayphase.

So yeah. ._.

First part about changing wagons is rather www if I am right and Wickan is town as well (I am). She wants to keep town as the top wagon and that's the primary motivation there.

What is WWW? o_O

And I'm scumreading Wickan, because I don't understand why he's obvtown after the many things I've listed against him.

The fact that you'd rather continue to impose a townread as an excuse to ignore someone and cast suspicion on them without any continuation of a push suggests that you're avoiding something and you're also trying to divide the town by intentionally miscommunicating with others.

Then there's a shit ton of theory crafting to overreach and basically discredit. If Wickan is town, Titus is trying to make sure that the wagon doesn't include her. If Wickan is scum, Titus tries to save a buddy. Taly sheeps RC's wagon reasoning (but with totally different words) but then calls RC scum.

Back up for a minute.

WHEN have I scumread RC?

RC is one of my stronger townreads. This is misrep number 1. I'm still in awe that you paint ANY of my posts the past few pags as theory and discrediting others when I'm trying to figure out the game.

And how am I sheeping RC's wagon reasoning? I'm still a bit more confident in my vote on Wickan as it is. Keep on with your audacious lying and that may change.

Taly's defense of SP is off. There's no evidence of that. ASP posted "this is Wickan's ISO" I find it scummy is not showing depth of thought whatsoever.

What defense are you even talking about? There's been several times these past few pages where I pondered a lot on SP scum - I even questioned the basis of his Wickan ISO as if he was trying to get attention off of them being associated.

I'm still in a spiral trying to understand you Titus....

I read your posts. I also never called your walls hate walls. I said I hate walls.

Alright, I'll take this at face value.

Please use different wording other than

Taly, I engage but with hate walls in this game

Because that infers to me that you think my walls are just irrationally picking at you - and so you dismiss a lot of points I put up by this.

Your reasons for Wickan is scum are not reasons. You IioAed the thread and made many contradictions yourself. You complain about Wickan's vote being parked but ignore my highlighting the Wickan wagon has been vote parked since RVS. You deny that you and Ice have been up each other's ass the entire time but in a less transparent manner. You refuse to reconsider your reads or provide analysis on why Wickan is scum.

Wtf does IioAed mean?

So me finding contractions in Wickans pushes are no reasons for him to be scum?

But contradictions tht you fabricated in my reasoning against Wickan is scum?

Thanks for the conf-bias. It's clear to me that trying to reason with you at all is likely is not going to do anything at this point...

And what are you talking about me and Ice being on each others ass this entire time?

Do you not see that a lot of my posts point to ME thinking that YOU'RE scummy - and people besides Ice? Ice and I haven't had any major confronation since around page 7 or so...

I legitimately have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

You're twisting this so much... It's staring to show as manipulative in a very toxic way... Wow.

Okay, I'm finally back.

RadiantCowbells's post read like a desperate attempt to justify a Titus scumread.

@Titus: welcome to where I've been all game. You're welcome to join me on the Taly wagon.

Why are you JUST NOW here? Especially after the abomination of a post Titus' was?

And you prodding her to jump my wagon at this point? That just looks like a work-of-art scum maneuver.

Side-Note Titus: Try to make you fox-posting less obvious between engagements.

>>>>>>>>

FA, we can still talk about Titus and Wickan. Wickans posted but didn't address anything against him - what do you think about Titus' recent posts?

[Titus]

There has to be something against him to address.

IIoA is information over analysis.

I meant ewwww when autocorrect changed to www.

There are no contradictions in Wickan's posting.

You have contradiction. You just said RC could be scum and now claim you never scumread RC.

[Taly]

There has to be something against him to address.

IIoA is information over analysis.

Did you not see ANY of my post links on him?

I meant ewwww when autocorrect changed to www.

Why we shouldn't phone-post 101.

There are no contradictions in Wickan's posting.

Again. Tell me how there was no contradiction - I explicitly stated his in my post listing why he's scum - and you can ISO me, quite a few of my posts point out contradictions.

You can even ISO Wickan to see; but you probably won't since I doubt you eve ISOed him in the first place before writing him off as obvtown. If I'm wrong, then I want you to delve into Wickan and tell me how it's town.

You have contradiction. You just said RC could be scum and now claim you never scumread RC.

I don't care how Wickan flips in terms of Titus' alignment - her credit to me is below shit already and by the connections of your thought RC - SP+Titus s a real possibility. But I'm having a hard time trying to see Wickan as town...

Other than me saying I wanted RC to speak to me. There is nothing else I said to OR about RC.

IF you're referring to the possibility I put up - that was SP and YOU, yourself. I never said RC could be scum.

But that's not the point here - you deliberately ignored everything I said about Wickan and instead nitpicked a fabricated reason from my post to incriminate me instead of actually responding and trying to work this with me.

[Wickan]

Why are you JUST NOW here? Especially after the abomination of a post Titus' was?

Because I am? I don't really understand the question. If you're asking why I haven't really been here the last couple days, I'd rather not go into it.

And you prodding her to jump my wagon at this point? That just looks like a work-of-art scum maneuver.

Are you kidding? I've wanted people to vote for you for a while. It's not scummy to encourage others to vote your scumreads.

@Titus: I'd honestly rather not expend the energy digging stuff up unless you really want me to. Do you have a reason for suspecting Johnny right now?

[Wickan]

And taly: I didn't address your most recent wall of an argument against me because there didn't seem to be any point. We've been over all of this multiple times. We clearly disagree in our interpretations of lots of stuff I've done.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus, I believe your scumpartner is most likely to be ASP than anyone else.

That said, it's not a pro-bussing strategy given that you haven't pushed him at all, you've just used him as a tool to push others.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, wtf.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Not on board.

The

way we've avoided Wickan is actually starting to creep me out.

Also edited so it makes sense grammatically

Why not reconsider you Wickan townread and realize that it's a scum driven wagon?

I mean it can't really be scum driven if I'm driving it.