Newbie 1667: Bushfire! (Game Over)

Performer · Post Post #250 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:33 am

@shrike also, why would you have suspected me if he flipped mafia? I don't follow this.

Performer · Post Post #251 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:38 am

@shrike what I just don't get is this:

There are other lurkers who you could also have accused, Which is why I see this as tunneling.

It's easy for scum to focus on lurkers.

Maybe you wanted me to focus more on lurkers so we town folks could get them mislynched ?
This also makes me doubt that vet and shrike are a team, since shrike questioning of me not focusing on lurkers (vet has been hardcore lurking), is one sign that they're not a team.

AzoriusSenate · Post Post #252 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:11 am

So GM is confirmed town, at least, if no one is going to counterclaim a role.
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AI is still FoS-ing me, and at this point I'm having a hard time understanding why. If you don't read me as town at this point then I'm not really sure what I can say to you. AI can you please elaborate on why you think I'm scum?
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I still need to hear more from vettrock.
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Rad Rat said:

Also, as you may have guessed, my V/LA period is over.

Rather convenient how it coincided with the end of the Day and Night phase.

What is this supposed to mean?

goodmorning · Post Post #253 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:49 am

In post 244, shrike wrote:
In post 227, goodmorning wrote:People I want to look at a little harder tomorrow: Vettrock, Performer, maybe shrike? Probably not shrike.

I assume this was based on the assumption that PC was mafia. How did him flipping town change your views?

It doesn't really. I don't usually do associatives til after flips. I did have a thought that he and Vettrock could be doing what I did with my partner in N1521, where I made sure to draw attention away from his low activity.

So I still want to look at Vettrock and Performer and maybe but probably not you. I've been at school all day but will probably get to this tonight.

In post 252, AzoriusSenate wrote:So GM is confirmed town, at least, if no one is going to counterclaim a role.

Well, sort of confirmedish. As confirmed as one can be without fullclaiming, and some of the roles it's possible for me to claim are also roles that don't exist in some setups, so.

Cheery Dog · Post Post #254 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:09 pm

Votecount 2.01

AzoriusSenate (0)
vettrock (0)
shrike (0)
Radical Rat (0)
MortFeld (0)
Performer (0)
ai_shuuu (0)
goodmorning (0)

Not voting: AzoriusSenate; Radical Rat; vettrock; MortFeld; shrike; goodmorning; ai_shuuu; Performer;

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Day 2 Deadline (expired on 2015-12-20 18:42:02)

.

shrike · Post Post #255 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:44 pm

In post 250, Performer wrote:@shrike also, why would you have suspected me if he flipped mafia? I don't follow this.

I've changed my mind on this. My orginal view was that your vote was a fairly unsubstantiated attempt to lead the vote away from PC. However, I realise that it was so late in the day that it would be fairly unlikely to succeed. This means that either you were an overeager townie looking for scum, or mafia trying to appear involved in the game without lynching a townie.

In post 251, Performer wrote:@shrike what I just don't get is this:

There are other lurkers who you could also have accused, Which is why I see this as tunneling.

It's easy for scum to focus on lurkers.

Maybe you wanted me to focus more on lurkers so we town folks could get them mislynched ?
This also makes me doubt that vet and shrike are a team, since shrike questioning of me not focusing on lurkers (vet has been hardcore lurking), is one sign that they're not a team.

I'm not saying you should focus on lurkers (although I love lynching lurkers in IRL mafia). I just think your vote on me for failing to address some posts was pretty weird as other people were putting even less effort into the game.
I can't be partners with vett, because as Azorius said in 127, he and I are scum buddies.

--

How do we feel about discussing the events of last night as a town? Could it lead to a clearer understanding of who could be mafia, or is it not worth the risk of a PR slip?

shrike · Post Post #256 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:49 pm

In post 253, goodmorning wrote:
In post 244, shrike wrote:
In post 227, goodmorning wrote:People I want to look at a little harder tomorrow: Vettrock, Performer, maybe shrike? Probably not shrike.

I assume this was based on the assumption that PC was mafia. How did him flipping town change your views?

It doesn't really. I don't usually do associatives til after flips.

Does that mean townie claiming is common in mafiascum? Otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't have 100% thought that PC was mafia.

Performer · Post Post #257 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:42 pm

So I still want to look at Vettrock and Performer and maybe but probably not you

I'm not certain where to even begin with this part of gm's post.

Mort & vet have been awfully quiet.

Performer · Post Post #258 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:45 pm

Otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't have 100% thought that PC was mafia.

@shrike didn't gm already go into this, on d1?

Radical Rat · Post Post #259 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:51 pm

.

In post 248, Performer wrote:
Radical I can't recall if you expounded on what is your FM experience. Can you tell me about that?

Two off-site games, and too much Town of Salem to quantify.

Off-Site Game #1: My first Forum Mafia game. I learned how to find scum, how not to find scum, and that fakeclaiming scum as Town is a very very bad idea.

Off-Site Game #2: I learned how to be scum, and I'm actually quite proud of how well I did.

Town of Salem: In my many many games here... I learned how to read night actions

In post 252, AzoriusSenate wrote:
Rad Rat said:

Also, as you may have guessed, my V/LA period is over.

Rather convenient how it coincided with the end of the Day and Night phase.

What is this supposed to mean?

Exactly what it says. I mentioned needing to V/LA for the weekend, and it happened to like up with Night so I missed very little game.

Radical Rat · Post Post #260 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:53 pm

Links to my games:
http://smashboards.com/threads/mini-gam ... in.414850/
http://smashboards.com/threads/banjo-ka ... nd.418586/

Radical Rat · Post Post #261 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:55 pm

Line up with Night*

Radical Rat · Post Post #262 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:59 pm

Now then....

VOTE: Performer

Can't quite put my finger on what it is... But Performer just SMELLS like scum.

ai_shuuu · Post Post #263 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:47 pm

@performer
#97 define unique
#99 "Why? Because Rad's post and first vote on Phan (other than Phan's
self vote) alone, sounds Townie - but
combined with a possible town flip from Phan
- this would raise my suspicion-ometer."

You said that rad's vote on phan sounds townie but if its a misslynch you would suspect rad?
Didn'nt we misslynch ppl alot than we catch scum?

#191 how did you town read mort? In #98
You read him scummy...
Did i miss something?

#223 "One reason is because I defend valid PR claims no matter what town role I have."
Don't you get suspicious that phan claim before anyone intended to hammer him?

ai_shuuu · Post Post #264 (ISO) » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:48 pm

@shrike
#46 i guess thats GM's thing >.<
#209 "I agree with this to an extent and I've
realised that D1 lynch is not as important as
I'd been taking it"
Can you explain why D1 lynch is not as important?
And how did self vote is not bad gambit when i read it on wiki there is "don't don't don't don't self-vote" especially in newbie game?
Where its antitown behaviour, and playing for scum wincon?
Yes its get us out of rvs but we will talk about it over and over and over...
And then this, "Woah, this post is bizarre. It almost sounds
like a softclaim.
" you think he did softclaiming and you vote him instead >.<
Sry, i dont get this@shrike
#46 i guess thats GM's thing >.<
#209 "I agree with this to an extent and I've
realised that D1 lynch is not as important as
I'd been taking it"
Can you explain why D1 lynch is not as important?
And how did self vote is not bad gambit when i read it on wiki there is "don't don't don't don't self-vote" especially in newbie game?
Where its antitown behaviour, and playing for scum wincon?
Yes its get us out of rvs but we will talk about it over and over and over...
And then this, "Woah, this post is bizarre. It almost sounds
like a softclaim.
" you think he did softclaiming and you vote him instead >.<
Sry, i dont get this

@vetrock
123 "Sometimes you get lucky
and lynch scum, but mostly it is about who
makes mistakes."
Now we know that regardless of his alignment anyone can make mistakes, then how do you scumhunting?

goodmorning · Post Post #265 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:59 am

In post 255, shrike wrote:How do we feel about discussing the events of last night as a town? Could it lead to a clearer understanding of who could be mafia, or is it not worth the risk of a PR slip?

It's not really going to help much.
The end result is basically:
1. The Mafia tried to kill someone but they were JK'd.
2. The Mafia tried to kill someone but he was Doc'd/JK'd/BP.
3. The Mafia didn't try to kill anyone.

3 is very unlikely. The rest are all PR-related.

In post 256, shrike wrote:
In post 253, goodmorning wrote:
In post 244, shrike wrote:
In post 227, goodmorning wrote:People I want to look at a little harder tomorrow: Vettrock, Performer, maybe shrike? Probably not shrike.

I assume this was based on the assumption that PC was mafia. How did him flipping town change your views?

It doesn't really. I don't usually do associatives til after flips.

Does that mean townie claiming is common in mafiascum? Otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't have 100% thought that PC was mafia.

Town fakeclaiming is thankfully pretty rare, but it's not completely unheard of, so I don't always assume. I assumed enough to quickhammer him, obviously.
I didn't really have time to go back and do associatives off PC before the thread was locked anyway.
Which is good because it would have been a waste of time.

In post 257, Performer wrote:
So I still want to look at Vettrock and Performer and maybe but probably not you

I'm not certain where to even begin with this part of gm's post.

Try then.

vettrock · Post Post #266 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:09 am

First let me apologize for not being as active as I should. I know it hurts the game as it is difficult to get reads when everyone is not participating.

In post 264, ai_shuuu wrote:
@vetrock
123 "Sometimes you get lucky
and lynch scum, but mostly it is about who
makes mistakes."
Now we know that regardless of his alignment anyone can make mistakes, then how do you scumhunting?

Claiming cop when you are a VT is completely anti-town. I have no idea why anyone would do that. Maybe to draw the nightkill, but you are much more likely to out a PR and get yourself lynched, which is exactly what happened here. I would be hesitant to even call it a mistake, but rather bad play. A mistake I put a slip that lets you sometimes nap scum on the first day. Most of the time the value of the D1 lynch is the information you gain from the pushes and comments people make. Here, I'm not sure how much is gained as PC was being pushed, and then hammered by GM before people started in unvote. I think the clearly puts GM in the confirmed or near confirmed town category. Scum would not gambit on hammering a claimed PR with a counterclaim. That would be quite the ballsy move given that they would not have know that he would flip VT instead of cop. The real scumhunting I don't think really happens until at least day 2, as then you have a flip, and who was pushing them. Given PCs bad play, I think there is less information for town given we can't assume that the mafia was pushing him (not that you can ever assume that), but I think the motivations behind the pushes on him will be harder to determine.

In post 255, shrike wrote:
How do we feel about discussing the events of last night as a town? Could it lead to a clearer understanding of who could be mafia, or is it not worth the risk of a PR slip?

I think it is best to assume it was blocked by Jailkeeper either jailing the scum, or the target, or that the target is Bullet-proof. I don't know that there is anything else to discuss.

vettrock · Post Post #267 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:18 am

@Mort

Since you were voting PC and posted after the claim, why did you not unvote? After GM hammered there was no point, but I think it would have been the thing to do? After GM hammered, it was too late, but as Performer said anyone hammers was a scum claim. GM obviously had a good reason, as she knew he was lying. Town shouldn't lie.

vettrock · Post Post #268 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:21 am

In post 256, shrike wrote:
Does that mean townie claiming is common in mafiascum? Otherwise I don't see why you wouldn't have 100% thought that PC was mafia.

A townie claiming a PR that they do not have is bad. I would have done the same thing in GM's position.

Radical Rat · Post Post #269 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:48 am

There is no JK in this game.
Working on the assumption that the Mafia DID try to kill someone, which seeing as how they have a revealed power role, they almost certainly did, if they were jailed, the JK would be pushing for their lynch, since they would know at least one Mafia member.

Seeing as how I'm the only current voter, this is not the case.
Therefore, goodmorning was the BP, and she'll be finished off tonight.

Radical Rat · Post Post #270 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:52 am

This also means the Row 3 is our setup.

If your role doesn't match this conclusion, please, keep it to yourself. It's better that we work with a faulty role list than out another PR

AzoriusSenate · Post Post #271 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:30 am

In post 269, Radical Rat wrote:There is no JK in this game.
Working on the assumption that the Mafia DID try to kill someone, which seeing as how they have a revealed power role, they almost certainly did, if they were jailed, the JK would be pushing for their lynch, since they would know at least one Mafia member.

Seeing as how I'm the only current voter, this is not the case.
Therefore, goodmorning was the BP, and she'll be finished off tonight.

In post 270, Radical Rat wrote:This also means the Row 3 is our setup.

If your role doesn't match this conclusion, please, keep it to yourself. It's better that we work with a faulty role list than out another PR

I think you're being a little hasty here Rad Rat. The JK could in fact have blocked a mafia member and simply doesn't want to out immediately or wants to remain hidden for now. We shouldn't assume anything until we have more information.

Radical Rat · Post Post #272 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:24 am

Of course the JK wants to remain hidden. I don't mean they'd just up and say "YO I JAILED X"

But I do think they'd be applying some form of pressure. Which there is very little of in Day 2 so far.

This also tells me the Mafia is just as uncertain as we are at this point, or THEY would be stirring up trouble.

Performer · Post Post #273 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:17 am

In post 262, Radical Rat wrote:Now then....

VOTE: Performer

Can't quite put my finger on what it is... But Performer just SMELLS like scum.

Catching up with posts from midnight to morning that I missed. And saw this one that was very scummy!
VOTE: Radical Rat

Performer · Post Post #274 (ISO) » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:48 am

UNVOTE: Radical
Just caught up with the rest of the posts I missed, and no - my vote on Radical isn't the way to go. I don't see myself lynching this guy for d2, he is looking really Townie to me now (also did an ISO of him).
-----
@ai "unique" as in I've never seen anyone other than PC self vote during RVS. How come you ask me about that? That's a rather trivial thing to point out imo.
I think I explained this in another post, but I stated that I would suspect Rad because I've seen scum early vote someone. It's easy for them to jump on something and cause a wagon for that.

My suspicion on Radical at post 99, was because I thought PC was misreading Radical, therefore I doubted Rad and PC were the same alignment. How PC posted about Rad being a "VERY STRONG townread," led me to believe Rad & PC were unlikely to be same alignment. After more posts from Rad, my read changed on Radical.

My read on Mort evolved.
Mort – His post 25 interaction with Rad moves me to townread Rad and scumread Mort, because Mort sounds more IIoA while Rad is moving us forward. I could see Rad coming from a town perspective in that post. Later on pg 3, Mort gets on the wagon because he believes Phan’s self vote to be anti town. The timing of his vote on Phan, putting him at L-1 - makes me think it’s a rather safe way to get on a wagon without becoming extremely suspicious - like hammering someone, then they flip town.
His 101 response to me made me move him to null, and his interactions on pgs 5-6 made me move him to town.
However, he has been missing on d2 and I just did an ISO of vet and Mort - they never voted each other.