Mini 1742: game over

[Frozen Angel]

and is there a way for not having a protective in a normal game?

[Titus]

@Frozen, Wickan's job is to die. His death is his feedback. This isn't sc2 where heals get notified. Doc on Wickan = scumclaim.

@Wickan, that's the point of your role. Your death brings us info. You target scummy players. You don't have a specific one to hide behind so scum can't just NK the townie to get two kills.

Ideally we want a pool with at least two townies and a scum in it (all of whom look suspicious).

[Frozen Angel]

Doc on wickan target! I never said doc on wickan ....

[Frozen Angel]

that will save wickan and his target from death if his target is town. (isn't it?) and wickon will still die if his target is scum

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

p-edit: OK nvm I misread what you meant by pool. I'd take Taly and Frozen out of that pool and add Al

double p: Just don't with the protecting. It complicates things.

[Frozen Angel]

Titus why are you scum reading me? :/

[Wickan]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

But that's a recipe for a surefire death. There's no way that helps town.

[JohnnyFarrar]

It confirms you and someone else. It forces the scum to nightkill someone we choose vs someone they choose. Both of these are good things

[Frozen Angel]

or they will fail on NK and we gain nothing. no harm done ha?

[JohnnyFarrar]

I mean it also invites scum to play this really dangerous game is chicken if they decide not to kill your target which has been interesting in the past

[JohnnyFarrar]

Game *OF chicken #phonepost

[Frozen Angel]

I'm going to sleep , bye. no hammer tonight - we have like 1/5 week till deadline - no rush

[ICEninja]

So I don't know about you guys, but in my 30-something games I've seen scum fake claim hider I think 3 times, and it's virtually never actually played in normal games. Does anyone here have any experience actually having a legit hider in a normal mini?

I don't believe the claim.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I mean that's equally balanced by how fucking terrible the role is to claim, it's basically a death sentence in itself.

[Titus]

that will save wickan and his target from death if his target is town. (isn't it?) and wickon will still die if his target is scum

Doc on Wickan's target doesn't save Wickan.

[Titus]

So I don't know about you guys, but in my 30-something games I've seen scum fake claim hider I think 3 times, and it's virtually never actually played in normal games. Does anyone here have any experience actually having a legit hider in a normal mini?

I don't believe the claim.

I have seen hider enough. Second, the mod has 1-2 non normal roles to use at their discretion.

[Titus]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

But that's a recipe for a surefire death. There's no way that helps town.

Agreed. You should have a pool of 3 names.

[mykonian]

votecount

Wickan (5): ICEninja, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, talah, A Simple Plan
Taly (3): Wickan, Albert B. Rampage, Titus
Titus (2): RadiantCowbells, Frozen Angel

not voting (0):

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

But that's a recipe for a surefire death. There's no way that helps town.

Agreed. You should have a pool of 3 names.

Not agreed. Breathing room for him means he might be living unconfirmed for a while and gives scum breathing room to shoot who they want because

odds

[RadiantCowbells]

The only condition under which I will accept Titus not being lynched today is if the hider claim is on her, no wifom.

[Taly]

oookay!
so
taly what motives you for all these fast changes? it seems you just want a lynch on wickan - titus ?

Yeah, I do want a lynch on Wickan or Titus today --

(not exactly so much on Wickan, but I'll get to that in a minute.)

. I've given my thoughts on why they're both scum in my eyes, and I've listened to others' ideas on why they aren't, and why they are - and I feel as if bringing up other people as lynch candidates at this point are just going to bring more of wall between town on deciding who to lynch. IE, a flip on one of these two is useful.

Granted, Wickan's claim does make me second guess my scumread on him; I'll get to that in a minute, but I may reconsider some of my reads very soon.

Also, with my posts these past few pages; I toyed around with several ideas of possible scum and why; peoples reaction to my vote on Wickan - or at least, peoples unexplained push on me afterward FOR wickan - validated a lot of my suspicions of people I generally scumread. Since people are divided on the lynch candidate today, my quick changes are basically trying to get info., be open with people, and pushing for what I think is the best option overall as discussion progresses.

Furthermore; I don't really understand your comment of me 'needing to try more' - I've stated reasons, gave possible ideas and theories, pushed people I thought were scum multiple times, even listed some of my uncertainties, and I'm making an effort trying to get people to respond to them.

I don't know what you're asking of me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wickan claimed Hider? In my like... 8-10 games ever, - I've been in like 2-3 mini normals - which isn't very credible but I haven't seen this role before...

OK, I'm re-reading the past 2 pages now... I'm good with creating a pool, I feel like SP, ABR, and/or RC/Titus should be in the group of people.

I'm not entirely sold on the claim atm; I feel like we could have avoided a NK if Wickan claimed something like cop. (Which is a gambit, but that could have potentially led to a scum lynch now and no town death and we'll have conf-town later) I'm not sure what Wickans intentions were to claim a role like that now other than to not be lynched, and to not be seen as an NK target, which is WIFOM-y as hell because if he's scum fake-claiming, then town is in a tough-ass position.

But the thing here is, I can also see town doing this for the exact same reasons...

In any case, this looks weird.

>>>>

@Mod, didn't Johnny unvote Wickan?

[Titus]

I'd rather we just outright state who he's hiding behind. I don't completely believe the claim so at worst we lose two people we were thinking about lynching anyway. Anything else either confirms or condemns people.

But that's a recipe for a surefire death. There's no way that helps town.

Agreed. You should have a pool of 3 names.

Not agreed. Breathing room for him means he might be living unconfirmed for a while and gives scum breathing room to shoot who they want because

odds

Each day Wickan lives, a new conftown is added to the pool.

This greatly forces scums hand.

If we reach lylo plus one day and Wickan is still suspected as scum, then we lynch him. Wickan should be lynched then. Worst case, we get a conf clear.

Scum should have a dillema on who to shoot. Let's say the hider targets are me ABR Ice.

Scenario: 1 flip within pool. We know if Wickan is town, one of ABR/Titus/Ice is town to be confirmed by Wickan.
Scenario 2: 2 flips, one within pool the other Wickan. We forced scum to shoot someone scummy. Wickan died BC he targeted scum.
Scenario 3: 2 flips, one outside the pool, one Wickan. Scum confirmed within the pool. Lynch must be within the pool.

[Titus]

Having a confirmed hider target just tells scum which towns person to shoot to get two kills.

[Titus]

ASP, ABR, ICE

That should be the hider pool.

[Titus]

That pool has one lurker, one person in Titus ABR Wickan and one of my scumreads. Pretty fair.