Mini 1742: game over

[Titus]

Yeah, people feel that way about me often.

Guess who does make it to LyLo?

We don't lynch her today she doesn't get lynched, I guarantee you.

Can we stop with this "sheep me" shit that 1/3 of this playerlist loves doing? This is why I'm not keen on RC the past few pages.

I'd like my questions answered for once.

Keen on RC?

Just because I've beaten you all as scum at least once doesn't mean that we're autolynching me because you're afraid you can't read me.

This is sheer lunacy.

Can you stop fearmongering and actually try to sort anyone?

Seriously, if I am town, it's not a problem if I don't get lynched. I am.

If you need me sorted, you could poke to put me in the hider options and vote to lynch.

You don't seem interested in solving the game but just rambling.

So I ask again, hider pool and thoughts on ASP.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't talk to scum.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Hey Bells what do you think about the hider pool?

Also what do you think about ASP?

[RadiantCowbells]

I literally could not care less what the hider does. They can stay home for all I care.

I don't need investigative roles to catch scum.

The only way that he's useful to me is if he checks Titus, which isn't about the investigation it's about proving it to you lot.

[JohnnyFarrar]

and aspy?

[Taly]

Can we stop with this "sheep me" shit that 1/3 of this playerlist loves doing? This is why I'm not keen on RC the past few pages.

I'd like my questions answered for once.

Keen on RC?

Just because I've beaten you all as scum at least once doesn't mean that we're autolynching me because you're afraid you can't read me.

This is sheer lunacy.

OK... I don't remember a game where you were scum and I wasn't... I do remember a game where we were both scum; and I'm torn on you because the majority of your posts come across as genuine.

What I don't get is; Nobody is answering my questions... Whenever I ask something, whenever I say I don't understand something... There's only - maybe 2 or 3 people who has actually engaged with me in coherent terms thus far in this game. Then votes fly everywhere, and nobody seems willing to communicate beyond going after someone.

Am I fucking insane for trying to figure out this game before I make my own actions?

Sigh... This is so damn frustrating.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Careful with that persecution complex baby, you doing want to live a life of perceived slights

What do you want to know Taly?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Not correcting the grammar in my throwaway jokes, fuck you autocorrect

[Taly]

Careful with that persecution complex baby, you doing want to live a life of perceived slights

What do you want to know Taly?

Are you referring to the persecution part to me? What do you mean exactly? (I'm not offended or anything)

This is what I want to know:

1)

Is the 3-pool the people the hider is going to hide behind? If so, why is SP wagoned, if not - why is RC not wagoned?

I'm not 100% sure if I grasp this concept.

2)

This is an ABR question... But I'm still trying to decipher his votes for the past several pages, and now his unvote - which I can see because of him wanting SP and Ice to respond, but I'm not seeing a major connection?

ABR has literally not answered most of anything I've asked him.

3)

If RC is so adamant on Titus... I want to hear more about them on Titus... There's just so much questioning here - a lot of push-pull on these two in terms of reads and pushes...

4)

More of question to Wickan - why didn't you crumb or do anything about it?

[Titus]

1) Yes. We can wagon who we want. We just have a replacement if ASP is lynched. Right now its Talah.

Rest aren't for me.

[Wickan]

4) I've been under heavy suspicion from the beginning. I did not think that a crumb would help my credibility in the slightest. And I'm not sure what else you would've wanted me to do about it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Are you referring to the persecution part to me? What do you mean exactly? (I'm not offended or anything)

Yes. People skim, it happens. It's not meant as an insult to you, you'll notice it happens with anyone who makes real big posts (Frozen's catch-up is a good example) so just work on being more succinct. I get responses and I don't even storm shit right half the time

1)

Is the 3-pool the people the hider is going to hide behind? If so, why is SP wagoned, if not - why is RC not wagoned?

I'm not 100% sure if I grasp this concept.

There's a pool of three people Wick will hide behind. He chooses one of those to hide behind, tells us which of the three the next day if he lives. This cuts the chances of scum getting the double kill to 1/3 and gives us a small lynch pool if he dies because he targeted scum.

That pool is currently the people closest to getting lynched besides Wick, so Asp is currently in it. Bells (or Talah? Haven't finished arguing) will replace Aspy if we lynch him

P-edit: ANSWERS

[JohnnyFarrar]

Also Wick pulling out a 'hiding' joke from 400 posts ago is plenty crumb enough for me, unless you want to tell me he was planning his fake claim 20 pages ago?

[RadiantCowbells]

If so, why is SP wagoned, if not - why is RC not wagoned?

Why the fuck would RC GET wagoned.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Something something no content

[Taly]

1) Yes. We can wagon who we want. We just have a replacement if ASP is lynched. Right now its Talah.

Rest aren't for me.

OK, I'm understanding this now.

4) I've been under heavy suspicion from the beginning. I did not think that a crumb would help my credibility in the slightest. And I'm not sure what else you would've wanted me to do about it.

I just wanted to know your thought process; it sounds close to home, tbh.

Are you referring to the persecution part to me? What do you mean exactly? (I'm not offended or anything)

Yes. People skim, it happens. It's not meant as an insult to you, you'll notice it happens with anyone who makes real big posts (Frozen's catch-up is a good example) so just work on being more succinct. I get responses and I don't even storm shit right half the time

I'm not insulted or anything.

Yeah, I can get wordy and it's sometimes difficult get across some message. Meh, this usually happens when I'm not understanding something when I think it should be obvious. (And when I partially feel like I'm being persecuted myself)

I'm calm now.

1)

Is the 3-pool the people the hider is going to hide behind? If so, why is SP wagoned, if not - why is RC not wagoned?

I'm not 100% sure if I grasp this concept.

There's a pool of three people Wick will hide behind. He chooses one of those to hide behind, tells us which of the three the next day if he lives. This cuts the chances of scum getting the double kill to 1/3 and gives us a small lynch pool if he dies because he targeted scum.

That pool is currently the people closest to getting lynched besides Wick, so Asp is currently in it. Bells (or Talah? Haven't finished arguing) will replace Aspy if we lynch him

P-edit: ANSWERS

Ah, I see now.

Also Wick pulling out a 'hiding' joke from 400 posts ago is plenty crumb enough for me, unless you want to tell me he was planning his fake claim 20 pages ago?

Can you link the post?

If so, why is SP wagoned, if not - why is RC not wagoned?

Why the fuck would RC GET wagoned.

Why wouldn't RC get wagoned?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Wickan

, did you crumb your role at all?

I did not. However, I did laugh hysterically when I read FA's 421

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

I have no objections to the suggested hider pool. I also suggest that talah replace ASP if that's the eventual lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I spent this entire day trying to get people to lynch Titus and now you're trying to lynch me because me trying to lynch her is apparently not producing content.

New flash: not until she's dead will you have me committed to content form that's not about her.

You want to scumread me, you want to lynch me, be my guest. I caught scum, I'm done now.

[ICEninja]

Wait so, do people believe the hider claim or are people just putting off lynching Wickan on the off chance he's actually a hider and dies during night phase?

A hider is a perfect scum fake claim. A cop is going to get shot, so a cop surviving the night is suspicious, A scum fake claiming hider could just claim to hide behind some random townie that scum is fine shooting the next night anyway.

If we do want to give him a chance on the off-chance that he's ACTUALLY a hider, I'm really only wanting to lynch Titus. Maaaaybe Simple Plan, but that's only if we really aren't going to lynch Titus.

Since I've never played with a hider before, can someone explain to me the idea behind this hider pool? It seems like if he hides behind scum we have a lynch pool of 3 people which isn't terrible, and it reduces the risk of scum killing 2 townies with one bullet. How do we pick who to put in the pool? Titus is literally the last person I want picking the people.

We're really trusting him, though. If he "confirms" town, can we actually be confident it isn't a fake claim?

[Titus]

I spent this entire day trying to get people to lynch Titus and now you're trying to lynch me because me trying to lynch her is apparently not producing content.

New flash: not until she's dead will you have me committed to content form that's not about her.

You want to scumread me, you want to lynch me, be my guest. I caught scum, I'm done now.

You're just wanting to tunnel and avoid content. There's no way there is just one scum.

Why refuse to engage anyone?

[Titus]

Wait so, do people believe the hider claim or are people just putting off lynching Wickan on the off chance he's actually a hider and dies during night phase?

A hider is a perfect scum fake claim. A cop is going to get shot, so a cop surviving the night is suspicious, A scum fake claiming hider could just claim to hide behind some random townie that scum is fine shooting the next night anyway.

If we do want to give him a chance on the off-chance that he's ACTUALLY a hider, I'm really only wanting to lynch Titus. Maaaaybe Simple Plan, but that's only if we really aren't going to lynch Titus.

Since I've never played with a hider before, can someone explain to me the idea behind this hider pool? It seems like if he hides behind scum we have a lynch pool of 3 people which isn't terrible, and it reduces the risk of scum killing 2 townies with one bullet. How do we pick who to put in the pool? Titus is literally the last person I want picking the people.

We're really trusting him, though. If he "confirms" town, can we actually be confident it isn't a fake claim?

That would force scums kill each and every night ad finitum, regardless of reads. If scum kill conftown, then they cannot kill those scumreading them.

Plus, any doctor would be on who Wickan clears. Your fear setup depends on a lack of a doctor, which is a large assumption.

Third, Wickan has to have a clear at any time after d1, so lynching him at lylo plus 1 day is guaranteed to have a clear.

If Wickan is scum, he has that date as his death certain.

The setup you have here again is if town is optimal, lynch another town. You aren't engaging much either.

[A Simple Plan]

UNVOTE:
Okay, so the hider is a thing.

I think this hider pool idea is rather dumb. Our plan needs to be to have him target one of the most suspicious players, the ones who haven't contributed as much and don't appear to. It leads to three scenarios:
1) target is scum, Wickan dies, and scum gets two deaths in exchange for a guaranteed lynch.
2) target is town, scum kills target, but get two less-than-stellar kills instead.
3) target is town, and scum targets someone else, allowing for a presumably confirmed townie pair in the game and drastically narrows down the suspect pool for D2.

ANY WAY we look at it, worst case scenario is 7p tomorrow without a confirmed scum but much greater opportunity to figure the scum team out. Better possibilities, only one death plus two confirmed townies, or even a confirmed scum, and assuming target is town, it creates a tough decision for scum to deal with.

Alternatively, what do we get from the three-player hider pool? It creates WIFOM for scum, but WIFOM for town the following day if he dies because we can't be sure if he targeted town and died due to the scum kill or targeted scum. A definite target at least gives us information.

Since I was asked, to sum it up, I'm not 100% sure in Wickan's claim, but it bought him a day.
Not Lynching: Johnny, ABR, Wickan
Give me a case and it's possible: ICE, RC, Talah, Titus (though those last two will need to be damn good cases)
Potentially Scum (would lynch): Taly, FA

I've been reading since page 21, and I think I've caught on with a Johnny tell. Wickan I won't lynch due to his claim, and I've been confident in my ABR townread since I ISO'd him around page 21, and I haven't seen anything to change that.

P-edit: I might be willing to lynch RC based off of that post about 20 minutes ago. This tunnel is ridiculous.

[Wickan]

The point of the hider pool is essentially to ensure that, even if I die, I'm providing information. W/o the hider pool, if I die, it's much harder for the remaining town to figure out who was the scum that I hid behind. The downside is that the pool also increases the chance of scum shooting me when I'm hiding behind a townie.

[Wickan]

Actually, ASP does point out another problem with the pool.

Say the pool contains Alice, Bob, and Eve.

Say tomorrow I'm dead and Bob is dead. There are 2 possibilities
1. I hid behind Bob and scum targeted Bob, we both died.
2. I hid behind Eve, who is scum, and scum targeted Bob. We both died.

From town's point of view, these look identical. And I'm not sure either should particularly be considered more likely.

[Wickan]

@ASP: However, if you're suggesting that we have a definite target, that's right out. The two options are pool or free for all.