Micro 547: Searching For Dragons (Game Over)

[Firebringer]

LOL. That is rich.

Town loses because you played horribly then you whine that it was not fair. Sorry FB - I worked for that win. Too bad that you were one of scum teams honorable mentions.

I am 'whining' because this game has several problems.
Do you not agree with any of the problems?

I had a similar problem with a scum game I won and called it a fricking hallow victory for the exact same reasons.

Town were completely inactive, scum were just as inactive but we won.

I think you slightly deserved this win more than your teammate but I think its still a very hallow victory.

You can at least admit that.

[Tere]

If town decides to lynch knowing that a player is V/LA and not bothering to probe that player, they really only have themselves to blame. If you don't use the two week days to scum hunt, don't be surprised if you don't catch scum.

[Tere]

Firebringer will be particularly salty when the scum board is released and it is clear we deliberately kept him alive as a strategy because we were confident he'd do something stupid in LYLO

[Firebringer]

Also plz qq moar.

You shouldn't be posting anyway.

You got replaced. Nevermind you don't deserve a win.
I think your criticism would have had so much more weight to it if you were active in the game.

But when I look at your play I see nothing good and you criticizing the towns play is rich.

[Firebringer]

I am curious what town should have done in this game for you guys.
Lynch both the most inactive players in the game?

I mean FAQ was semi-active so a case could be made on him like Guilty Lion said. But the other was a empty slot and would have been a policy lynch.

Please, I actually want to hear peoples thoughts. I know I didn't play this game perfectly, my vote at the end? Terrible, but you don't ever allow the whole game to be viewed from last 5 minutes of a game. You have to objectively look at whole game.

[goodmorning]

Tere was on V/LA for a lot of the Day phases.

[Firebringer]

Firebringer will be particularly salty when the scum board is released and it is clear we deliberately kept him alive as a strategy because we were confident he'd do something stupid in LYLO

No, I am expected and often will do reckless things in LYLO, I don't consider it a flaw.

Go read a Night on the Town, lost that game by voting to try to reaction test a player who was scum.

[Firebringer]

Thanks goodmorning for modding, though I wish you were more active in VCs if I am going to be honest.

[Persivul]

I am 'whining' because this game has several problems.
Do you not agree with any of the problems?

I had a similar problem with a scum game I won and called it a fricking hallow victory for the exact same reasons.

Town were completely inactive, scum were just as inactive but we won.

I think you slightly deserved this win more than your teammate but I think its still a very hallow victory.

You can at least admit that.

The underlying concept of the game of mafia is that scum have an advantage because they start with more information than town.

It is town's burden to generate information. Lurking is acceptable scum strategy.

Town didn't generate enough information. For example, I shouldn't have hammered CN early in phase. That time could have been spent pressuring people to post. If town doesn't pressure scum, there's no reason for scum to volunteer information. Such a game might be boring, but

it's still a valid scum win

.

[Firebringer]

I am 'whining' because this game has several problems.
Do you not agree with any of the problems?

I had a similar problem with a scum game I won and called it a fricking hallow victory for the exact same reasons.

Town were completely inactive, scum were just as inactive but we won.

I think you slightly deserved this win more than your teammate but I think its still a very hallow victory.

You can at least admit that.

The underlying concept of the game of mafia is that scum have an advantage because they start with more information than town.

It is town's burden to generate information. Lurking is acceptable scum strategy.

Town didn't generate enough information. For example, I shouldn't have hammered CN early in phase. That time could have been spent pressuring people to post. If town doesn't pressure scum, there's no reason for scum to volunteer information. Such a game might be boring, but

it's still a valid scum win

.

No. Lurking is not an acceptable scum strategy.

Lurking is called not playing.

[goodmorning]

Thanks goodmorning for modding, though I wish you were more active in VCs if I am going to be honest.

Me too.

[GuiltyLion]

Yeah, basically everything but your own play.

So I was supposed to lynch players who weren't playing each day?

Cool story.

Honestly this is my biggest problem with forum mafia and I don't know how to fix it. Lynching lurkers is terrible when they're town, but lurking is so anti-town that when scum can get away with it get a much easier win.

I think another lesson for me in this game is to put more pressure on people like Tere when they replace in, but it's hard to remember to do that when you have other more active scumreads.

D2 was too short imo, we would have gotten more out of it with a full two week day.

PEDIT - Ninja'd hardcore, I completely agree with Pers' 708.

[Firebringer]

This is how I view what you should be doing as scum and town.

Town-Get everyone talking and engaging to get information and find scum.
Scum-Try to deceive others and survive.

What Lurking does, is skip the 'deceive' part. You aren't deceiving anyone, you are just looking to survive. Its a shortcut, and actively calls on you to do nothing.

I can't respect anyone who wins that way.

[Persivul]

No. Lurking is not an acceptable scum strategy.

Lurking is called not playing.

People tend to play when they're at L-1. We didn't put pressure on the scum to make them play.

[GuiltyLion]

Meh but we have only ourselves to blame for not making Tere deceive us. Tere doesn't have to do anything if she can win without doing it. It's our fault, not hers.

[Firebringer]

Meh but we have only ourselves to blame for not making Tere deceive us. Tere doesn't have to do anything if she can win without doing it. It's our fault, not hers.

Not really.

Like, yes there was stuff we could have done. No arguments there, but not playing isn't really a victory.

[Firebringer]

Here is a different game example of what I am talking about since some people aren't getting me:

You are playing a FPS, you can't play at the time but don't want to quit.
So you go into a corner and hide so enemy team can't get any kills.

At end of the game, your team won.

Would you call that a victory? Just because it says so on the score screen?

What makes it a victory?
A victory has to be EARNED.

[Persivul]

So you go into a corner and hide so enemy team can't get any kills.

If enemy team takes it's time and searches, it finds you and kills you.

[Persivul]

Regarding modding, I like goodmorning and don't hold this against her, but let's be honest - the modding sucked. Big delays on flips and opens. VCs were few and late. Flavor obscured mechanics, e.g. Vedith was given a rare role that should have been explained clearly in the role PM.

[Wisdom]

Firebringer, scum's goal is to avoid attention and survive. If they manage that, no matter the means, then they deserved the win. The fault here is town's for ignoring her and having votes in lylo. You don't vote in lylo unless you're sure. And with a slot having posted just twice you definitely couldn't be.

[Firebringer]

Firebringer, scum's goal is to avoid attention and survive. If they manage that, no matter the means, then they deserved the win. The fault here is town's for ignoring her and having votes in lylo. You don't vote in lylo unless you're sure. And with a slot having posted just twice you definitely couldn't be.

Nope.

Like its fine if you want to think this, its pretty opinion based.
I just can't call it playing.

And if you don't play you can't really 'win'.

@Persivul Would you not say that hiding in corners though is actively avoiding the purpose of the game?

Also would you not call it a hallow victory if say the other team point farmed on a player who wasn't playing the game and then won?

[Persivul]

@Persivul Would you not say that hiding in corners though is actively avoiding the purpose of the game?

Depends on the purpose of the game. Your analogy to video games breaks down on this point. The goal of scum is to be the last ones standing. They don't get extra credit for having high post counts.

[Persivul]

Actually, let me restate that. Yes, I will give scum extra credit if they're really active and cleverly deceiving people. I'll give them more extra credit if they're looked upon as town leaders and are in control of lynches. But, that credit is EXTRA. If they don't do those things, it's still a valid win.

[Chaotic Neutrality]

Greyfox posted like four times and his replacements posted once before lylo. How were we supposed to get a read on that slot?

[GuiltyLion]

Additionally, this game needs a Foxxx replacement before we drive up any quickwagons. I have a hard time committing to lynches when I am completely null on more than one player.