Micro 547: Searching For Dragons (Game Over)

[Firebringer]

Guilty Lion = Pro.

The rest of us = Suck.

At least I came out of this game learning something.
Sorry for mislynching you Chaotic, you just seemed to be going off in weird ways I couldn't see from a town perspective, my bad on that.

Persivul I honestly can say I just was frustrated with more than I was actually scumreading him. Most of his shit seemed to be intentionally trying to piss me off. And some things contradicted others. It seemed like he was doing exact same shit he did in the villains game where he was scum.

[Persivul]

Greyfox posted like four times and his replacements posted once before lylo. How were we supposed to get a read on that slot?

Run the slot up to L-1 and see what happens.

We were impatient and scum took advantage of it.

[GuiltyLion]

@Fire, No, I made bad plays this game by responding poorly to pressure and tunneling on CN too much. My reads were mostly good but that means nothing when I can't communicate them effectively.

I stand by the softing though, I guaranteed that the cop would be alive into D2. Although I'm surprised I wasn't RB'd and him killed instead - I would have known (and claimed doc and said) that there was an RBer, I guess scum thought maybe they wouldn't get me lynched after that. Looking forward to the PT.

[Firebringer]

I actually admire that you (Persivul) take partial responsibility for the lose, but I think most of it is unnecessary man.
We lost because players didn't play. You can put a loaded gun to a persons head to try to make them talk, but they don't have to talk.

[GuiltyLion]

Pers I used to think it was really scummy to put lurkers up to L-1 but this game is definitely making me rethink that. I see a lot more value to your playstyle than I did when we started.

[Persivul]

We lost because players didn't play. You can put a loaded gun to a persons head to try to make them talk,

We didn't do that.

but they don't have to talk.

1. Maybe they would have.
2. If they don't, you pull the trigger.

[Persivul]

This seems to be a general line of thought here - FB posting virtually nothing makes him townie....

That seems like a terrible town tell. What does fire do as scum then?

It think this is an important point. I'm seeing this too much on the site. Someone is playing scummy, but then someone says

Oh that's his meta, he always plays like that

. In general towns are screwed if that logic is allowed to continue.

[Persivul]

I should also note that I do that myself sometimes, but I'm now going to stop. Play townie in the game at hand or get voted. That needs to be the rule if towns are to win.

[Firebringer]

It think this is an important point. I'm seeing this too much on the site. Someone is playing scummy, but then someone says Oh that's his meta, he always plays like that. In general towns are screwed if that logic is allowed to continue.

I am not playing scummy.

You perceive my actions as scummy, when they aren't.

Jesus, how many times do I have to say this shit?

[Persivul]

What is and isn't scummy is a matter of opinion. The point is that, when someone agrees that certain actions are scummy per se, a meta of performing those actions should not be a valid excuse.

[GuiltyLion]

Looking at this game in isolation, I thought the Fire wagon early and his conversation with me about bussing possibilities should have cemented him as town, but I agree he is difficult to read. Regardless I enjoy playing with players like him because it's more fun to have many playstyles in the game and it also makes it more personally rewarding when you get those reads correct. Enforcing a singular 'townie' site meta on everyone could lead to stiffer games and weakened scumhunting skills.

The tough thing with Fire is he gets offended and throws up AtEs as town or scum, so it's null when he does it and I have no idea how to read him under pressure.

[Persivul]

Allowing chronic lurking or active lurking because it's the player's meta makes scum hunting impossible.

[penguin_alien]

Congrats to scum (yes, bringing the right people to LyLo for whatever reasons is valid play) and thanks for the game, goodmorning!

Saw the end of this yesterday, was otherwise occupied, but yeah...no mod is going to reset the vote count for a replacement (although feel free to show me one who does; I like to know when to cross people off my 'mods to play with' list), nor does it make sense to assume that scum won't jump to quickhammer regardless of overall activity levels. So neither of those changing excuses justifies Firebringer's late game play to me. And the changing excuses part just makes it worse. But then I think this is probably redundant by now; Firebringer's play was just one more aspect of bad town play across the board. It happens.

Will be interested to see how many false positives our role would have generated if we'd gotten any shots through, given source material.

[Firebringer]

So neither of those changing excuses justifies Firebringer's late game play to me. And the changing excuses part just makes it worse. But then I think this is probably redundant by now; Firebringer's play was just one more aspect of bad town play across the board. It happens

Not excusing my horrible plays, I am saying this is a shame on scum for being inactive and not playing the game.

I don't think I have stated anywhere I played amazingly, I know I didn't stop pretending I am excusing my bad play.

I am saying this isn't a true scum win.

[Tere]

Tere was on V/LA for a lot of the Day phases.

Yup. I picked up my role PM 24 hours prior to V/la Day 1, and Chaotic hammered about 10 mins into my return from it. In that time I spreadsheeted the whole game, liaised with my teammate, and put up a full reads list for you guys which was read as town by at least one of you That is more than enough work to be acceptable. Day 2 was carried out in entirety during my announced V/la, and town again chose to hammer. Night 2 coincided with a rl hiccup and I requested replacement prior to Day 3. It's not my fault if no-one was available and actually the lack of replacement was detrimental to scum as you will see on the board.

And now ?I need to go because time is again limited. But actually I am very comfortable that my activity coincided with my win condition and I am not worried about a poor quality player whining about it because he is a sore loser

[FA_Q2]

Greyfox posted like four times and his replacements posted once before lylo. How were we supposed to get a read on that slot?

You don't. You either pressure it into giving you some or you lynch it.

I was really surprised that town just let that go without argument. I thought for suer that I would have to lynch my teammate in lylo simply because of that. Pers cutting the day short helped that a lot though - we didn't need the cover on day 2 and I could use the fact that he didn't post that day against pers rather than against my partner.

[FA_Q2]

@Fire, No, I made bad plays this game by responding poorly to pressure and tunneling on CN too much. My reads were mostly good but that means nothing when I can't communicate them effectively.

I stand by the softing though, I guaranteed that the cop would be alive into D2. Although I'm surprised I wasn't RB'd and him killed instead - I would have known (and claimed doc and said) that there was an RBer, I guess scum thought maybe they wouldn't get me lynched after that. Looking forward to the PT.

You were far more dangerous. From my perspective, the GL vs. CN was not enough reason to lynch an inactive slot over one of the most active ones. That interaction, even if TvT, is exactly what gets scum caught.

[FA_Q2]

Allowing chronic lurking or active lurking because it's the player's meta makes scum hunting impossible.

This is a very real issue. The site meta is a problem. We should be lynching hard core lurking or other anti-town play as a general rule of thumb. Will it cost town some games - yes. Will it maker the game more fun and help toen in the long rung - absolutely.

[GuiltyLion]

This is a very real issue. The site meta is a problem. We should be lynching hard core lurking or other anti-town play as a general rule of thumb. Will it cost town some games - yes. Will it maker the game more fun and help toen in the long rung - absolutely.

so, in future games, if I see you giving a lurker slack - that means you and the lurker are scumbuddies? cool

[Firebringer]

so, in future games, if I see you giving a lurker slack - that means you and the lurker are scumbuddies? cool

Not really, kind of hallow and empty.

I don't want to beat scum by just lynching lurkers every day.
I want to beat scum by actually finding scum through their posts.

The game is zero fun if scum just go inactive for whole game and say at end "well you should have pressured me". I don't care if it furthers your win condition. You should have some pride in your ability to play the game and deceive others.

Lurking to win, is a weak players response to drawing scum.
They can't actually deceive anyone, they just have to force town to do Policy lynches on them.

[Persivul]

dude, the word is hollow...two o's, no a

[Firebringer]

dude, the word is hollow...two o's, no a

I suck at engrish.

[Lucky2u]

Just realized goodmorning hasn't ended the game yet. Quick everyone vote Firebringer

VOTE: Firebringer

[goodmorning]

yes i diiiiid

[Firebringer]

Firebringer has been lynched.

Now waiting five days before we give you the flip.