Mini 1742: game over

[Frozen Angel]

www.16pesronalities.com

yeah pretty much what I thought

I know thinking styles can appeal to emotions. BUT for an INTP its so weird to base their play style.

plus I might be wrong. but if I'm going to lynch someone I'm happy about voting you

[Frozen Angel]

www.16personalities.com

sorry

[talah]

Results of the consensus survey:

Won't lynch:

Johnny

[8] {Titus, talah, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ICE, ASP}

Wickan

[7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, ABR, ASP}

Titus

[5] {talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR}

ABR

[3] {Titus, Wickan, ASP}

Taly

[3] {talah, Johnny, Wickan}

talah

[2] {Titus, ICE}

RC

[2] {Frozen, ABR}

ICE

[1] {RC}

Frozen

[1] {RC}

Preference for lynch - nominate ONE only:

ASP

[4] {talah, Johnny, Taly, ICE}

talah

[3] {Frozen, RC, ABR}

Ice

[2] {Titus, ASP}

RC

[1] {Wickan}

Notes:

Spoiler:

I think this is accurate. I went back to Wickan's update in 1043 and added in RC and ABR's indications and then continued from there. I tried to keep the order of stating preferences sorted by time in the list. (So first player to state an opinion appears first in each group).

I'm adding RC's 'Won't lynch' based on his 1021/1024 (ie he indicated he thought certain folks were town so presumably won't vote them at that stage)

Obviously some things might have changed now but this has been the problem; constant shifting and lack of consensus. So I really wanted a snapshot of a single state of the game we could consider and discuss (although I might have undermined that mid-survey by inviting a wagon on myself - oops. Nevertheless...)

Playerlist for reference:

(ordered by statement of preferences above)

Spoiler:

Titus
talah
JohnnyFarrar
RadiantCowbells
Taly
Frozen Angel
Wickan
Albert B. Rampage
ICEninja
A Simple Plan

Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP

---

The below results are the more important result as far as Town consensus is concerned.

Implicit Will lynch list:

This is the inverse of the "Won't lynch" list

ASP

[9] {Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE}

Frozen

[8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP}

ICE

[8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}

RC

[7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ICE, ASP}

talah

[7] {Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}

Taly

[6] {Titus, RC, Frozen, ABR, ICE, ASP}

ABR

[6] {talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, ICE}

Titus

[4] {RC, Frozen, ICE, ASP}

Wickan

[2] {RC, ICE}

Johnny

[1] {ABR}
---

So, refreshing my reads and compromise suggestions for Town based on this info (and to an extent my wagon info):

ASP I'm going to suggest actually might be town based on the fact there is zero resistance to his lynch - either that or he's simply being bussed at this point because his lynch seemed inevitable. I can vote here but have changed my mind on preference.

Frozen's vote on my wagon was the most opportunistic given the lack of solid argument (I'll get to RC and ABR in a second) and there are several other aspects to her play which haven't panned out as continuing town, like it seemed they might early-ish game after my initial serious scumread and push. I'm heading back to scum there and a fantastic compromise. I don't know why she has so much implicit support but isn't pushed - indicating to me that scum aren't pushing an obvious lynch target (because she's scum).

Taly's push was pretty bad too and I'm going to be considering that but still don't want to lynch him today.

ICE I mistrust because of his *lack* of suspicion on me, actually, but hey town can be right about town. Want to put him in the on-hold bucket for now, but he'd be a like 3rd or 4th tier compromise who I'd have to re-read I think.

RC and ABR - I can't help but group their play in my head.
~ On RC, I still don't like the tunnel (which has switched form Titus to me) - there's nothing to back it up. Votes/tunnels, person being voted asks questions, RC lurks until an opportune time to randomly post a quote and call it scummy again. Rinse repeat. I'd vote here.
~ On ABR - I'd like to think his voting-round-the-world strats have a purpose. Not really perturbed by his "game too easy" comments when I'm at L-1 with intent to hammer. I want to see his play after a flip if I'm around.


So.

VOTE: Frozen

[Frozen Angel]

Frozen's vote on my wagon was the most opportunistic given the lack of solid argument (I'll get to RC and ABR in a second) and there are several other aspects to her play which haven't panned out as continuing town, like it seemed they might early-ish game after my initial serious scumread and push. I'm heading back to scum there and a fantastic compromise. I don't know why she has so much implicit support but isn't pushed - indicating to me that scum aren't pushing an obvious lynch target (because she's scum).

opportunistic how? you were in my suspects list since the start of game! lack of what solid arguments?

ok try to make other assumptions to vote me. this is clearly OMGUS

[Frozen Angel]

I just felt your town for a while , But more reads cleared my head up. if we're not lynching Wickan you must be lynched.

[Frozen Angel]

The below results are the more important result as far as Town consensus is concerned.

Implicit Will lynch list:
This is the inverse of the "Won't lynch" list

^^^^^^^ you think people should lynch the one who they have no solid read on?

i'm sorry town for that because I was hellish busy in past week. I'll try harder to engage with the game

[talah]

Frozen's vote on my wagon was the most opportunistic given the lack of solid argument (I'll get to RC and ABR in a second) and there are several other aspects to her play which haven't panned out as continuing town, like it seemed they might early-ish game after my initial serious scumread and push. I'm heading back to scum there and a fantastic compromise. I don't know why she has so much implicit support but isn't pushed - indicating to me that scum aren't pushing an obvious lynch target (because she's scum).

opportunistic how? you were in my suspects list since the start of game! :P lack of what solid arguments?

:D ok try to make other assumptions to vote me. this is clearly OMGUS :D

You voted my wagon after my self-vote and your reasons were literally

1) (wrong) that I didn't have you in a will-lynch list
2) self-voting is scumzor, don't care why, just scum cuz of self-vote, scum scum scum

Secondly, you've been flipping back and forth between scumreading me and fairly consistently stating 'you might be wrong I might be town' whenever I've addressed arguments you've made for me-scum (most significantly just now and also when we went into some detailed discussion of the purpose of RVS wagons).

I have 5 people that were on my own lynch-wagon aside from myself I can OMGUS if I want. I'm choosing you as the best vote for today based on evidence and - frankly I think I was just right about you in the first place.

By the way I went to the site you linked:-
"Your personality type is:
Architect (INTJ-t)"

FYI.
Love how a 50(?) question survey purports to answer all my questions about myself.

[Frozen Angel]

you all say that ^ (about 50 questions)

whatever!

I want a valid lynch as town and you seem valid becuase of your self vote. sorry if it feels oppuortunistic. you apealed to emotion whenever you thought its best thing for you to do.
as I said its political . I can't buy them

+

I never flipped back and fourth about my reads. I'm scumreading wickan , you and titus in same order.

and as i said I hadn't enough time to contribute in this game and I'm sorry for that. you think you have enough reasons to vote me?

this is clearly omgus.

[talah]

So out of the top 5 compromises you're prepared to compromise on me only.

Anyway I've spent hours here again.

What do you think about Taly?

[talah]

By the way your last 4 posts have contained quite a bit of AtE.

"I'll try harder I promise"
"This is OMGUS"

[Frozen Angel]

So out of the top 5 compromises you're prepared to compromise on me only.

Anyway I've spent hours here again.

What do you think about Taly?

Titus new posts trying to buddy you make me guess we have a 3 party mafia : you - wickan - titus. but its so hard for making such a wild guess. (my last normal was three party). and this is just an idea.

wickan never accused you of anything. you where always enough distanced from wickan. as I don't buy his claim your the best option here

taly is a hard tryer. he is comparing , connecting dots , follow votes and game states , meta reading , making assumptions , making accusations , and voting whoever he thinks more scummy.

I really have no reason for scum reading him

pedit : I'm ENFP. you expect something less emotional? I'll try to engage the game yeah i promise. I was busy with my midterm exams and other games and that is omgus

[talah]

Well when you say this is just an idea - this is what's causing us to not be able to agree on a lynch.

If it's just an idea I'm asking you who out of this list you will lynch:

ASP

[9] {Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE}

Frozen

[8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP}

ICE

[8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}

RC

[7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ICE, ASP}

talah

[7] {Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}

At the moment you'll lynch just one of these consensus options, and it's the bottom choice - even after I self-voted and gained myself some ranking.
So clearly you're out of step with most of town.

[Frozen Angel]

You

and I'm not scum because of a list you invesrsed that implies who people has no read on (not scum reading)

[Frozen Angel]

and me voting you has no relation to that list.

your logic is flawed.

[talah]

It's literally a consensus list.

I asked who people Will Not vote.

The list is who people will vote.

[Frozen Angel]

no its the people who they wont consider no-voting them

stop twisting this talah

[Taly]

Oh, FA. I'm an ENFP, too.

I don't have enough time to reply to every single thing in the morning, so if something is desired to be addressed then question me after I create this post and will have a weekend after school to engage.

Also, talah's unvote right before her large posts come in responding to arguments appears as if she had realized she had done something wrong. It doesn't make sense, since she didn't explain it then.

[...snip...]
Pre-edit:
Seriously - never self-

vote

hammer. I TRULY understand how frustrating it can be. I've done it before (well not hammered but voted).
Even if you have to lurk because you're frustrated it helps to shape the game and gives town info.
I really enjoyed your accesisibility as I mentioned and you were very reasonable - I just didnt' understand your change off Taly dismissing your own arguments and wanted to know why that changed onto ChriVi, and I think we could have discussed that better - as much my fault as anything.

So this was the same quote (which you quoted) where I told Netherspite to never self-vote (we didn't get along well in that game at all).
Thing is the guy self-hammered. Also he was tilting and didn't take time to blow off some steam elsewhere or just call himself a v/la or lurk or something.

This is a completely different scenario.

RC's taken a couple of passes at me and when I've pushed back on him he's become increasingly aggro with scumreading me. Now I'm sorry but I don't think a the best reaction from town's to being questioned or poked (especially in response to your own push) is to scumread, vote and leave it at that.

So I decided I'd give him some help with wagonning me. Maybe he'd push a case, maybe I'd become a juicy target. Who knows. But I've done this before as town in at least a couple of games. So I guess my blanket statement about not self-voting is - well circumstantial (as it related to Netherspite in that game) and a bit pie-in-the-sky. Sometimes I just find it quite difficult to keep everything super-optimal and serious especially when games drag out on Day 1 like this. So I take a sidetrack or two.

Besides which:

I voted you because wagons are good and I didn't care to push either of Taly or Titus.

Wagons

are

good. From my sometimes atypical perspective - even on myself.

[...snip...]
But I'm really intrigued that either of you see my self-vote given my will-vote won't vote as a "fuck you have at it lol". So anyway if you want to grab that wagon go for it.
[...snip...]

Aside from that^^ and meta contradictions, the fact that talah then

says that it's 'intriguing' that we recognized

and then prods us to a wagon doesn't sit well with me.

I've snipped out the couple of dross lines you're not referring to here.
I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at here, especially the part I've bolded above.
It doesn't seem to line up as a problem with what I actually said, or you're missing some part of the point you meant to type.

Also the self-vote was the

second vote on the wagon

. I literally created the wagon.

You mean... A wagon on yourself? Apparently that's good? Couldn't you have just asked questions?

Don't try to explain the context; that still doesn't explain you, or remove my thinking about your self-vote and your general posting. Why would you argue that your vote on yourself was helpful?

[Do you think that doesn't line up with me having some purpose for it?
Also this is like deja-vu from the initial Frozen wagon except I'm doing it to myself. In case you've forgotten.

Bad wording palooza. So I'm forgetting something?

Please tell me how this scenario aligns with your early push on FA.

[Difference here is I *know* I'm town and so do scum, so it's a legitimate temptation with 2 votes outside of RVS imo.
Especially where other players try to characterise this kind of self-vote as scummy in its own right.

I mean... You were town the last game... I don't understand what you're getting at here.

And if her self-vote wasn't meant for anything much at all compared to the wagon she jumped off of for no reason; then why didn't she bring it back the post after or explain it? It looks like an agenda was there.

You don't lay down a reaction test and then say next post "NAHH GUISE JSUT CHECKING LOL UNVOTE". Do you understand why not?
So what's your actual problem with my self-vote? We have a wagon on me now which probably has 2 scum on it.

How do you know there are 2 scum on the wagon? Or scum at all?

And if your self-vote/unvote was a reaction test, then why didn't you say anything else about it, especially before you removed the vote?

This feels like you're either withholding information on what you learned from the 'reaction self-vote', or you're trying to find a way to make your vote seem as if it held some ground in terms of wagons.

Trusting some people on the wagon more, and the only major posting talah has done in this game was in the first few pages, she hasn't been pushed much at all and I feel like she's also gone under the radar. The intervals she posts about doesn't make since with the content at hand.

(Basically her posting 2-3 days apart between her engagements - ever since December 4th, which was not even a week until after the game began. Which would make sense from scum not wanting to do much when the chat was cut off 3 days in.)

This is a really bad argument and the reason is a PM I sent you back before joining the queue for this game regarding what I intended to do to allow myself to play more games.
Also:

Spoiler:

On lurking and you trying to say me not posting for 13 hours (or whatever, I might not post for 2 days or longer and prod-dodge, it's not the point) - your ISO now consists of 10 posts, most of them useless except as far as making excuses and defending yourself. Fully half of them have arrived in the last 24 hours and have been in response to me attacking you. Don't you think that's a good thing that I've motivated you enough to - actually post?

Dodgin'.

Sorry, been pretty crook the last couple of days.

I'm just going to go ahead and disagree that I've found a way to barely exist - I actually just came out of a couple of games directly prior to this and usually that'd be burnout for me. So I'm going to be shamelessly lurking from time to time (and especially at times when I'm either busy IRL, demotivated, or simply as with this game - kind of frustrated that we're talking around in circles and stubborning up rather than trying to compromise on lynches.

So I'm just going to leave that part of what you're seeing as "burden of activity" given I believe I have more posts than you - and both of ABR and RC have far more posts that both of us - and for the life of me I can't remember anything significant either have really done (well I guess ABR's done the rounds with voting but meh).

If you're feeling like I'm not providing enough content, how about you ask me some direct questions which aren't in walls? I dont' believe I've ignored anything you've said, correct me if I'm wrong.

It's not about amount of posts, or entirely the content itself; but the consistency as well. Which doesn't work well with how you've posted in several day intervals, only on specific discussions.

But hey, I'm glad throwing you up on the inquisition chair:

1)

Why are you pushing FA again, over all people?

2)

Who is bussing SP? And why is he town for zero resistance?

3)

Why is Titus town? You guys nonstop say that the other one is obv-town somehow, and literally nobody else seems to see it that way.

4)

Can you walk me through - in more compacted and concise words - how RC and ABR are 'linked' together, and they're scum?

Results of the consensus survey:

Won't lynch:

Johnny

[8] {Titus, talah, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ICE, ASP}

Wickan

[7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, ABR, ASP}

Titus

[5] {talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR}

ABR

[3] {Titus, Wickan, ASP}

Taly

[3] {talah, Johnny, Wickan}

talah

[2] {Titus, ICE}

RC

[2] {Frozen, ABR}

ICE

[1] {RC}

Frozen

[1] {RC}

Preference for lynch - nominate ONE only:

ASP

[4] {talah, Johnny, Taly, ICE}

talah

[3] {Frozen, RC, ABR}

Ice

[2] {Titus, ASP}

RC

[1] {Wickan}

Notes:

Spoiler:

I think this is accurate. I went back to Wickan's update in 1043 and added in RC and ABR's indications and then continued from there. I tried to keep the order of stating preferences sorted by time in the list. (So first player to state an opinion appears first in each group).

I'm adding RC's 'Won't lynch' based on his 1021/1024 (ie he indicated he thought certain folks were town so presumably won't vote them at that stage)

Obviously some things might have changed now but this has been the problem; constant shifting and lack of consensus. So I really wanted a snapshot of a single state of the game we could consider and discuss (although I might have undermined that mid-survey by inviting a wagon on myself - oops. Nevertheless...)

Playerlist for reference:

(ordered by statement of preferences above)

Spoiler:

Titus
talah
JohnnyFarrar
RadiantCowbells
Taly
Frozen Angel
Wickan
Albert B. Rampage
ICEninja
A Simple Plan

Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP

---

The below results are the more important result as far as Town consensus is concerned.

Implicit Will lynch list:

This is the inverse of the "Won't lynch" list

ASP

[9] {Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE}

Frozen

[8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP}

ICE

[8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}

RC

[7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ICE, ASP}

talah

[7] {Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}

Taly

[6] {Titus, RC, Frozen, ABR, ICE, ASP}

ABR

[6] {talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, ICE}

Titus

[4] {RC, Frozen, ICE, ASP}

Wickan

[2] {RC, ICE}

Johnny

[1] {ABR}
---

This is terrible.

First you give 2 options - not the other half the rest of us added - on our preferred lynch, creating a dichotomy.

Then you say that there is 'too much diversity' inside the formation of this popcorn read and vote/lynch.

Now whenever you're being pushed with more power - you go back to this idea and then make and INVERSE lynch list; incriminating HALF THE PLAYERLIST to be a possible lynch.

You 'narrowing down the field' just turned into you making anyone a possible lynch, all within the change of votes being placed on you.

The fact that you just push your own reads instead of providing questions to others to get their input - seems as if you're trying to cause some sort of turmoil in decision.

So, refreshing my reads and compromise suggestions for Town based on this info (and to an extent my wagon info):

ASP I'm going to suggest actually might be town based on the fact there is zero resistance to his lynch - either that or he's simply being bussed at this point because his lynch seemed inevitable. I can vote here but have changed my mind on preference.

Frozen's vote on my wagon was the most opportunistic given the lack of solid argument (I'll get to RC and ABR in a second) and there are several other aspects to her play which haven't panned out as continuing town, like it seemed they might early-ish game after my initial serious scumread and push. I'm heading back to scum there and a fantastic compromise. I don't know why she has so much implicit support but isn't pushed - indicating to me that scum aren't pushing an obvious lynch target (because she's scum).

Taly's push was pretty bad too and I'm going to be considering that but still don't want to lynch him today.

ICE I mistrust because of his *lack* of suspicion on me, actually, but hey town can be right about town. Want to put him in the on-hold bucket for now, but he'd be a like 3rd or 4th tier compromise who I'd have to re-read I think.

RC and ABR - I can't help but group their play in my head.
~ On RC, I still don't like the tunnel (which has switched form Titus to me) - there's nothing to back it up. Votes/tunnels, person being voted asks questions, RC lurks until an opportune time to randomly post a quote and call it scummy again. Rinse repeat. I'd vote here.
~ On ABR - I'd like to think his voting-round-the-world strats have a purpose. Not really perturbed by his "game too easy" comments when I'm at L-1 with intent to hammer. I want to see his play after a flip if I'm around.


So.

VOTE: Frozen

I covered a lot of this during my questioning of you.

You say my push is bad - but then you say you won't lynch me - but then your 'will lynch list' (where you put votes where people didn't place themselves) - throws 6 votes onto myself, which secures a lynch on me.

Yeah. Your 'popcorn vote analysis' doesn't add up with the reads, furthermore - you haven't even pushed on someone else yet if you do believe you could go after the 'scum on your wagon.'

The FA vote looks extremely far-sided. FA only placed a vote on you; but while you say you wouldn't want to lynch me for supposedly a "bad push" - you throw an associative over RC and ABR and then incriminate FA as opportunistic.

This doesn't look like the body of work from a towny.

>>>>

Titus, you can say all you want about how talah is obvtown- but that's not changing my mind. Despite talah wanting to 'lay low' on the posting, she seems very much like scum in my eyes.

I don't need to talk meta anymore; I have enough reason to vote to lynch talah right now in her past few posts alone.

[RadiantCowbells]

[quote="In post 1086, Titus"][/quote]

stop, please.

[talah]

Taly.

So I'm not getting into a wall-war with you and if you want to continue attempting that bullshit the rest will be very succinct.
I answered your accusations from the last wall because they didn't make sense. But you're familiar with me not liking your constant wall-posts.
I asked you specifically to engage me directly without walling earlier this game.
If you're town, do it.

This is the last wall-type post from you I will respond to in-kind.
Moving on.

You mean... A wagon on yourself? Apparently that's good? Couldn't you have just asked questions?

Couldn't I have just asked questions of RC? I already tried. Do you dispute this?

Don't try to explain the context; that still doesn't explain you, or remove my thinking about your self-vote and your general posting. Why would you argue that your vote on yourself was helpful?

I already did explain the context regarding Netherspite, so you kind of missed the point protesting, milady.
Your argument regarding my self-vote is (apart from subsequent, explanatory confusion below), the fact that you've managed to dig up a quote of me stating self-votes shouldn't happen for town.
You then direct town to read my posts and apparently fail to read me clarifying that into the context of netherspite's

self-hammer

, which was my issue.
So you're saying "town, read where talah says self-votes are bad and town shoud never do them - therefore he's scum, and read the rest of the page"
And also "town, I didn't read what talah said on the rest of the page"

Why were you meta-mining me from our previous game? Why not from one of the two I've finished in the last month?

Bad wording palooza. So I'm forgetting something?

Hm? You said "the fact that talah then says that it's 'intriguing' that we recognized and then prods us to a wagon doesn't sit well with me".
I didn't say anything about "you recognized" so how about you answer what I asked instead of saying "bad wording palooza". It was part of your argument that I'm scum.

Please tell me how this scenario aligns with your early push on FA.

If I can RVS wagon Frozen with no reasoning, I can wagon myself for the same reasoning.
The results are different.
Well actually the results are the same, funnily, considering Frozen's push.
So I should say the results give different information. They just happen to line up in Frozen's case.

I mean... You were town the last game... I don't understand what you're getting at here.

What's the confusion?
I asked you if you know the meaning and value and attributes of a reaction test. Can you go back to where I asked that in my last response to you and, y'know, actually answer that?

Or are you just gung-ho with bulking up walls providing new derivitave information? I asked you some pretty specific questions there and I'm now answering completely new information with you apparently ignoring points I've made. Please rectify this.

How do you know there are 2 scum on the wagon? Or scum at all?

I don't, I presume at least one scum will have voted me, and I think the ease with which it formed up from nothing indicates there was more than one.

And if your self-vote/unvote was a reaction test, then why didn't you say anything else about it, especially before you removed the vote?

I was at work and at L-1 when I unvoted. I saw the L-1 and left it for a while. I've already asked you to review the question I directly asked you about your understanding of the usefulness of a reaction test.
When you're tempted to post your next wall please go back to the previous wall I responded to and actually answer what I asked first.

It's not about amount of posts, or entirely the content itself; but the consistency as well. Which doesn't work well with how you've posted in several day intervals, only on specific discussions.

Give me a statistical graph of how I've posted with time vs discussion topics and I'll consider it. Otherwise you're just padding out "gut" with words which mean nothing.
And also your gut should indicate the opposite, and since you're pushing this line, I don't know if you realise you're being an absolute asshole here if you're scum but the PM I sent you before I even signed up for this game said exactly the same thing.
I intended to change my style to be less imperative to handle more games, I've done exactly that, and now you're pushing me as scum for doing it.

Why are you pushing FA again, over all people?

Did you read my 1102 where I explain exactly that, or were you too busy drafting this wall?

Who is bussing SP? And why is he town for zero resistance?

Considering nobody is opposing his lynch and the fact scum is so difficult to actually nail down in this game, he could be being bussed by practically anyone.
I'll admit his lynch seemed pretty hard to come by but that seems like scum-strats in general in this game. Any time we've gotten close to consensus there have been random switches in focus which have pretty much served to divide town. After asking who people won't lynch and seeing that literally nobody listed ASP as a won't-lynch, I'm figuring he's either being bussed or he's just town because scum would be fine with lynching him.
Are you familiar with the concept that wagons with minimal resistance are usually supported by scum?

Why is Titus town? You guys nonstop say that the other one is obv-town somehow, and literally nobody else seems to see it that way.

Uh.. Titus has 5/9 players saying they won't lynch her today.
I've stated why I'm reading her as town in-thread and also stated my misgivings (which are basic Titus-worries) which is still my current state with her. She's still most likely town.

Can you walk me through - in more compacted and concise words - how RC and ABR are 'linked' together, and they're scum?

More than "somehow I can't help but see their play as similar"?
They're both providing minimal supporting information with their pushes and votes.

This is terrible.

First you give 2 options - not the other half the rest of us added - on our preferred lynch, creating a dichotomy.

Then you say that there is 'too much diversity' inside the formation of this popcorn read and vote/lynch.

Taly, what I literally asked for was consensus. We've been pushing shit around on a stick for the last 2 weeks.
I asked who people *didn't* want to vote and who people's *preferred single vote* was.

I didn't really look at or care about the preferred single vote because that has been changing consistently for almost everyone. What I was interested in was how we'd come to a consensus on lynch.

There is no dichotomy. People siad who they wouldn't lynch. Everyone else is fair game given discussion. So I took those opinions and reflected them back.
If you're not taking them into account yourself, I'd advise rethinking that.
I had no part in any of the selection except asking and my own choices.

Do you think the "consider lynching" statistics are iinsignificant, like Frozen does?
Or perhaps you think me presenting that back is scummy?
Did I somehow get into the minds of every player in the list and somehow contrive to predict or influence results?

There's no dichotomy or deception. It's literally a snapshot of the game where players stated who they would *consider* lynching.

Now whenever you're being pushed with more power - you go back to this idea and then make and INVERSE lynch list; incriminating HALF THE PLAYERLIST to be a possible lynch.

I don't understand what you're trying to say when you say "pushed with more power". If you could clarify that'd be good.
I'm not incriminating anyone. If you don't grasp the concept of consensus then I can't really help here? Can you explain your confusion on consensus?

You 'narrowing down the field' just turned into you making anyone a possible lynch, all within the change of votes being placed on you.

Sorry when was I narrowing down any field? Frozen made the point that I could have included the other players with at least 6 votes of support which were you and ABR as well. I picked arbitrarily the top half of the list in asking frozen the question but you can always go back and look at the results

The fact that you just push your own reads instead of providing questions to others to get their input - seems as if you're trying to cause some sort of turmoil in decision.

Um... okay.
Pushing your own reads is definitely a town-trait that you've characterised me with there.
Instead of asking questions... Um are you creating some kind of dichotomy here yourself?

If I push my reads and don't ask questions I'm scum?
I pushed my reads but didn't ask questions?

Egh.... no. If you're town please review and clarify your question here.


We done?
...
Guess not.

You say my push is bad - but then you say you won't lynch me - but then your 'will lynch list' (where you put votes where people didn't place themselves) - throws 6 votes onto myself, which secures a lynch on me.

Hey actually it was *you* who mentioned the 6 votes thing.
So why are you worried about me "incriminating half the playerlist" if you're then criticising me for not pushing you for having the requisite support for lynch?

I didn't even look at what the threshold for lynch support was honestly.
And yeah I think you're reading me shittily but probably town? The way this conversation continues is going to tell me a lot tbh.
Tell me how I managed to influence who decided on your specific "will-lynch" group. You seem to be trying to hold me responsible for impartial data. I said I won't lynch you. My analysis is prior to the survey.

Yeah. Your 'popcorn vote analysis' doesn't add up with the reads, furthermore - you haven't even pushed on someone else yet if you do believe you could go after the 'scum on your wagon.'

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying about my "popcorn vote analysis" not "adding up with the reads". Explain what you mean please.
Who am I not pushing on which is someone else? Are you trying to tell me you're unhappy with my pushes?
Where I'm at is my current best bet / optimal lynch.

The FA vote looks extremely far-sided. FA only placed a vote on you; but while you say you wouldn't want to lynch me for supposedly a "bad push" - you throw an associative over RC and ABR and then incriminate FA as opportunistic.

Taly are you fucking drunk at this point?

What is far-sided.
You made a bad push. I think youre town.
RC I think might be scum. He has a lot of buddy buddy association with Frozen and it completely out of step with the rest of town. Has been pushing both Titus and now myself for stupid reasons and not responding when we question the push.
ABR has been voting sporadically and entirely opportunistically and providing minimal information. I'm back to tentatively trusting his voting as information-gathering because I can't rationalise it any other way. That's completely different from RC.

FA was *completely and utterly* opportunistic in jumping on my wagon.
Do you agree with her argument?

If so which was the best bit?
Where she said my "+self-vote was WAY TOO SCUMMY"?
Or some other in-depth analysis I managed to overlook?

---
Believe me - I'm never walling in response to you again. Either you give me the Tony Danza or I'm fucking ignoring you.

[Frozen Angel]

your self vote was WAY TO SCUMMY (you want me repeat this more?)

and I wasn't opportunistic at all in jumping in your wagon. your trying hard to twist everything and its not your personality to appeal to emotion for no reason.

believe me you're going to get lynched for that omgus vote on me

[talah]

Nice post scum.

[Frozen Angel]

lol

nice comment scum

[Frozen Angel]

I'm kind of sure about him after that list twisting thing (inverse thing)

[JohnnyFarrar]

[...snip...]
Pre-edit:
Seriously - never self-

vote

hammer. I TRULY understand how frustrating it can be. I've done it before (well not hammered but voted).
Even if you have to lurk because you're frustrated it helps to shape the game and gives town info.
I really enjoyed your accesisibility as I mentioned and you were very reasonable - I just didnt' understand your change off Taly dismissing your own arguments and wanted to know why that changed onto ChriVi, and I think we could have discussed that better - as much my fault as anything.

So this was the same quote (which you quoted) where I told Netherspite to never self-vote (we didn't get along well in that game at all).
Thing is the guy self-hammered. Also he was tilting and didn't take time to blow off some steam elsewhere or just call himself a v/la or lurk or something.

@Taly did you read this part of that post you quoted?

This is a really bad argument and the reason is a PM I sent you back before joining the queue for this game regarding what I intended to do to allow myself to play more games.
Also:

We are not lynching outside of Talah/Taly after this remark.

Why?

taly is a hard tryer

Taly you should sig this

4) Can you walk me through - in more compacted and concise words - how RC and ABR are 'linked' together, and they're scum?

I'll admit I'm skimming but where did this question come from?

[Titus]

ASP [9] {Titus, talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ICE}
Frozen [8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ABR, ICE, ASP}
ICE [8] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}
RC [7] {Titus, talah, Johnny, Taly, Wickan, ICE, ASP}
talah [7] {Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, Wickan, ABR, ASP}
Taly [6] {Titus, RC, Frozen, ABR, ICE, ASP}
ABR [6] {talah, Johnny, RC, Taly, Frozen, ICE}
Titus [4] {RC, Frozen, ICE, ASP}
Wickan [2] {RC, ICE}
Johnny [1] {ABR}

If this lynch list is actually true, then why can't ASP get a wagon? People keep countering ASP and voting and parking obvious town reasonlessly.

Ice has been almost every wagon only bussing ASP when this pattern became apparent.

Town should not have their name all over this list. Town should be narrowing down possibilities for lynch. You know who will lynch a lot, ASP, Ice and Frozen, RC and Talah.