Newbie 1667: Bushfire! (Game Over)

[vettrock]

Sorry about the absence. Life sometime keeps rolling with or without Mafia. Some comments on some of the post in my readthrough.

actually generic wisdom holds that town shouldn't give a shit abt how they look



but it's kind of a playstyle thing

While there are certainly some who say this. It is important for both scum and town to try and look town. If you are town and you don't care or defend yourself, you are likely to be mislynched, and that doesn't help town. When town spends more effort trying to look town rather than finding scum, that is a problem. Some people take this more seriously than others, and some people have a much higher threshold for when they just give up, or keep fighting.

[vettrock]

I apologise for lurking, I'm having trouble finding things to respond to. If anyone has any questions they want to ask me that might help me contribute more.

I would like to think this is just newbieness. I also sometimes have a hard time finding scum reads especially early in the game, but as the game progresses here is more an more to go off of.

Sidequestion: Are there stats on whether mafia is more or less likely to replace out than village?

Mafia is significantly more likely to replace out of Newbie games.
Stats are here.

I'm not sure we want to jump on and apply that here since TIMU seems mostly town to me. Performer also seems town.

AzoriusSenate, and Radical Rat are my top scumreads right now. I don't think they are scum together though due to their interactions. I'm not sure which one is the scum.

[Cheery Dog]

Votecount 2.03

AzoriusSenate (2) Radical Rat; This is my username;
vettrock (2) goodmorning; Performer;
This is my username (1) shrike;
Performer (1) ai_shuuu;
Radical Rat (1) AzoriusSenate;
shrike (0)
ai_shuuu (0)
goodmorning (0)

Not voting: vettrock;

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Day 2 Deadline (expired on 2015-12-20 18:42:02)

.

[goodmorning]

The most suspect people to me, on PC's wagon - are the middle 3 of vett/Mort/shrike.

Statistically speaking that's actually the opposite of what we expect to see D1, but it's not like it doesn't happen, so.

as soon as I mention your name, you pop back up. Just seems a bit odd, y'know?

eyyyyyyy Beetlejuice.

A tell as useful as the Amished.

gm I seem to recall you said you think someone's town (I forget if it was shrike)? How sure are you on this?

dammit stop looking town everyone

I am literally not sure of my read on anyone atm. I don't really remember how to be Town. But at least I'm a claimed PR so I don't have to take stances I'll regret later.
I'd really like to see more people making cases and pushing wagons. That is immensely helpful.

I can't really quote more than one person

exactly

, but I am scumreading Azorius, RR, and vettrock because of my thoughts on the posts they made.

Can you explain these a little more?

Sidequestion: Are there stats on whether mafia is more or less likely to replace out than village?

There are!
I linked it in the Newbie Queue pretty recently so I'm not going to go look for it right this second, but it's there!

thx vettrock

It is important for both scum and town to try and look town. If you are town and you don't care or defend yourself, you are likely to be mislynched, and that doesn't help town. When town spends more effort trying to look town rather than finding scum, that is a problem. Some people take this more seriously than others, and some people have a much higher threshold for when they just give up, or keep fighting.

I try not to tell Newbies to try to look Town because they always seem to do it in the scummiest possible way.

But yes.

Explain your reads please.

[Radical Rat]

Sidequestion: Are there stats on whether mafia is more or less likely to replace out than village?

Mafia is significantly more likely to replace out of Newbie games.
Stats are here.

I'm not sure we want to jump on and apply that here since TIMU seems mostly town to me. Performer also seems town.

This IS quite interesting. You're right in that TIMU looks Town, but perhaps this merits closer scrutiny, especially considering a few people, myself included, found Mort a bit strange D1...

[Radical Rat]

Just because I'm new, I'm wondering what gives someone a town read. From my understanding, if there's a particular action someone can take, scum could also take that action and appear town. I thought town reads came from a lack of doing scummy things.

Unless you just meant I haven't posted much. I've been traveling.

This D1 post is the scummiest Mort post to me.

"Just because I'm new"
Sounds just a bit strange to open with, but okay, he's new.

But then he asks "what gives someone a Town read?"
As Vettrock and I have said, Town DOES want to look Town. But it seems to me a better question would be asking about scum reads. That way the information can be used to scumhunt as well as avoid looking scum yourself.

Which brings me to a more general point.

I don't think that Town should censor themselves or engineer Town-like posts. Defending yourself is one thing. Altering yourself is quite another.

[Radical Rat]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

[AzoriusSenate]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

[Radical Rat]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

[AzoriusSenate]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

I feel like you might be town spewing. Does anyone else agree?

[shrike]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

I feel like you might be town spewing. Does anyone else agree?

I don't know what town spewing is, but I don't like how much RR bases his reads off gut instinct which he can't justify.

[Radical Rat]

I don't know what town spewing is, but I don't like how much RR bases his reads off gut instinct which he can't justify.

I THINK it means I'm just spewing out Town reads. Which is... inaccurate, to say the least.

I too wish I had more justification on my reads, but every time I don't trust my gut, I regret it later. An example can even be seen in this game, where I said my first instinct was that PC was Town, but thought "better" of it. I'll quote that post in a second.

[Radical Rat]

The only motivation, Scum or Town, I can think of for PC's actions( You're welcome to refute this if my explanation is wrong by the way ), is an attempt to make friends. People like to be complimented, and I'll admit, my first instinct when I saw him say I was a strong town read was that he must have been Town as well. But then my SECOND instinct was that it went far too smoothly. He didn't even stop to explain his "true" motive behind that vote until I directly questioned him.

Here. Had I listened to that first instinct, we might not have had a mislynch D1.
Though it is awfully presumptuous of me to assume responsibility for an entire lynch, I did start that wagon and was easily its strongest pusher.

[This is my username]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

I feel like you might be town spewing. Does anyone else agree?

It doesn't take much to go after someone

other than

RR. You have to search a few minutes for a new case but you're really tunneling him even if you are voting for someone else. It's starting to get a bit suspicious. I would say the same of RR but when you're constantly pushing a case against him it's hard for him

not

to focus on you.

[goodmorning]

TIMU isn't looking THAT good.

I have to say I agree with you there.

[Radical Rat]

TIMU isn't looking THAT good.

I have to say I agree with you there.

Shrugs
He looks more Town than the rest of this lot.

[goodmorning]

That may also be true.

[AzoriusSenate]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

I feel like you might be town spewing. Does anyone else agree?

It doesn't take much to go after someone

other than

RR. You have to search a few minutes for a new case but you're really tunneling him even if you are voting for someone else. It's starting to get a bit suspicious. I would say the same of RR but when you're constantly pushing a case against him it's hard for him

not

to focus on you.

I AM voting on RR right now. Is there something wrong with putting pressure on people? IMO if we sit back and do NOTHING this game other than pat each other on the back for town reads we ARE GOING TO LOSE. So don't tell me that I'm suspicious when I am the most townie here besides GM.

[goodmorning]

seriously where the hell is vettrock

[Performer]

@Performer
You voted for Azorius on day one without providing much justification. Do you mind going into your vote on him and explain how you see him now?

@shrike Azor – his post 65 looked like he knows exactly who’s town and who’s not. His pg 5-6 interactions with me however, didn't cause me to scumread him as heavily as I was scumreading Shrike.

His interactions on pg 15 in d2, moved me to put him in my townread pile – those came across as genuinely frustrated town to me.
-----
gm I'd like your input on the following 3, as you said this about them before:
your townread for Mort was based on tone of his posts
you townread Radical
you townread Ai because he was coming across as newb town

Anything changed on your reads of them, and why?

[Performer]

Who I'm most uncomfortable with being lynched for today's phase: gm, Azor, Radical.

I'm not sure we want to jump on and apply that here since TIMU seems mostly town to me. Performer also seems town.

AzoriusSenate, and Radical Rat are my top scumreads right now. I don't think they are scum together though due to their interactions. I'm not sure which one is the scum.

Why are TiMU and I town?

Why are Azor & Radical your scumreads?

[Performer]

I am also scumreading Ai - he voted Azor on d1 and voted me on d2. Also, I've been through his ISO and his posts are still not making me too comfortable. However, I think vet and the Mort slot look most fishy at the moment.

@moderator I will have limited access to FM this week because I am preparing for my CPC exam, on 12/19

[Performer]

Also, here is the d1 ending vote count, as well as the most recent vote count for d2, in case anyone wants to partake in VCA:

Votecount 1.08 (end of d1)

PhantomCobalt (5) Radical Rat; vettrock; MortFeld; shrike; goodmorning;
AzoriusSenate (2) ai_shuuu; PhantomCobalt;
vettrock (0)
shrike (1) Performer;
Radical Rat (0)
MortFeld (0)
Performer (0)
ai_shuuu (0)
goodmorning (0)

Not voting: AzoriusSenate;

*Azor stated he was going to hammer after seeing gm's counterclaim, but gm got to it while he was catching up with posts

Votecount 2.03

AzoriusSenate (2) Radical Rat; This is my username;
vettrock (2) goodmorning; Performer;
This is my username (1) shrike;
Performer (1) ai_shuuu;
Radical Rat (1) AzoriusSenate;
shrike (0)
ai_shuuu (0)
goodmorning (0)

Not voting: vettrock;

[Radical Rat]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

I feel like you might be town spewing. Does anyone else agree?

It doesn't take much to go after someone

other than

RR. You have to search a few minutes for a new case but you're really tunneling him even if you are voting for someone else. It's starting to get a bit suspicious. I would say the same of RR but when you're constantly pushing a case against him it's hard for him

not

to focus on you.

I AM voting on RR right now. Is there something wrong with putting pressure on people? IMO if we sit back and do NOTHING this game other than pat each other on the back for town reads we ARE GOING TO LOSE. So don't tell me that I'm suspicious when I am the most townie here besides GM.

1. No one told you to do nothing. Just to stop tunneling me. In fact, you WERE told to apply pressure to literally anyone else.

2. Of course YOU say you're the most Townie.


I swear, if I could vote you twice....

[AzoriusSenate]

That's tempered by the fact that TIMU is looking really, really good since his arrival though. Like... Strongest Town read aside from GM good.

TIMU isn't looking THAT good. Can you explain why you tr TIMU to the point of comparing TIMU to confirmed town?

It's an attitude thing. They feel like Town.

I feel like you might be town spewing. Does anyone else agree?

It doesn't take much to go after someone

other than

RR. You have to search a few minutes for a new case but you're really tunneling him even if you are voting for someone else. It's starting to get a bit suspicious. I would say the same of RR but when you're constantly pushing a case against him it's hard for him

not

to focus on you.

I AM voting on RR right now. Is there something wrong with putting pressure on people? IMO if we sit back and do NOTHING this game other than pat each other on the back for town reads we ARE GOING TO LOSE. So don't tell me that I'm suspicious when I am the most townie here besides GM.

1. No one told you to do nothing. Just to stop tunneling me. In fact, you WERE told to apply pressure to literally anyone else.

2. Of course YOU say you're the most Townie.


I swear, if I could vote you twice....

Your reads are jumping back and forth on me. First you say this might be town on town and now you're saying you want to vote on me twice. Which one is it?

------------------

To focus on some other people for a moment, I think Vettrock has been lurking way too hard for my tastes.
Ai has definitely fallen off for me. I don't really know what to say other than Ai's D1 seemed fine but D2 has been not good.
I think I like shrike as town for now along with GM as town.