Micro 553: ETL's Double Day Unlimited (Game Over)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

OFFICIAL VOTECOUNT 2.1.02

RadiantCowbells

(3): Antihero, Rob13, WickedestJr L-1

ConManMick

(2): RadiantCowbells, Papa Zito

Antihero

(0):

Papa Zito

(1): Rob13

Rob13

(0):

WickedestJr

(0):

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch, and 3 to no lynch.

---

Deadline:

December 24, 2015 at 8:07 am EST, or in (expired on 2015-12-24 08:07:56).

Mod notes:

None for now.

[Antihero]

===[]

[ConManMick]

I don't understand that NK at all. I've an exam in just over an hour, I'll be able to give some decent posts after that. I understand the nature of my actions at the end of D1 don't sit well with some of ye, so I guess I'll try to explain those.

That vote before I went to bed was genuine. I had an exam, and still have exams so this'll be brief.
RC was jumping all over the shop at the end of the day, which I didn't like. Also, the nature of the self-vote was very "I don't want to be here anyway". I was willing to see a lynch for this alone, as leaving the slot in the game is a liability. I'm still willing to lynch here, so I'll

claim hammer.

I understand some people are still looking for info so I'm gonna hold off until they get it.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, explain how it points to me when TTH was town reading me. I don't know what anti's reasons are, but I 100% think you piled on as one more way to fake your reads. You are NOT being genuine.

That post again ...

I was townreading your slot mostly because I thought there was no way scum could be as all over the place and bad as Lhix was, but stuff like this makes me think I went wrong somewhere and you're just scum.

reading is tech

hooked on phonics will work for you too!

---

Let's make a deal.

I'm positive that the scumteam is Anti/CMM right now.

How about we lynch in the 3 of us, and if you lynch me then you have to lynch one of them after.

Does that sound fair?

I'm not super interested in lynching your slot right now.

---

3. I always :/ at meta. I give meta no value. Feel free to meta me on this topic. :3

Ok well why don't you give it any value? If you are voting somebody for a particular player trait, then wouldn't you want to know if it's something that they usually do as town or as both alignments. Wouldn't that render your reasoning invalid?

This is a theory discussion that we can have some other time.

Let me show you what true lazy thinking looks like.

You have been voting for CMM all game.

This is lazy thinking. This is "I don't really approve of this behavior" thinking. I just discussed how nothing in the NK changes my view on that slot. That slot was my top scumread yesterday. If nothing changes, it stands to reason that it's my top scumread today. Why would I not vote my top scumread?

Yet you haven't given any reasoning.

Again, this is lazy. "I don't like that you haven't done what I want." You can't tell me, with a straight face, that you've never seen a town player vote someone and maintain that vote without providing a case.

I just skimmed your iso and noticed you haven't spoken to CMM once this entire game. Why aren't you trying to get explanations from him? Why aren't you asking him any questions?

What, exactly, am I supposed to be asking him? He promised a catch-up post that only just now was delivered. I haven't been provided new content to question him about. You'll notice I started engaging with Antihero instead, who was posting. Again, lazy, you're not actually looking at what's going on in the game, you're just pulling at straws.

[Wickedestjr]

Ok well why don't you give it any value? If you are voting somebody for a particular player trait, then wouldn't you want to know if it's something that they usually do as town or as both alignments. Wouldn't that render your reasoning invalid?

This is a theory discussion that we can have some other time.

A theory discussion "some other time" isn't going to help me determine your alignment "right now". It's a simple question and I don't understand why you aren't answering - I can't just assume that you genuinely believe what you're saying because I don't know your alignment and your opinion makes zero sense to me right now.

Let me show you what true lazy thinking looks like.

You have been voting for CMM all game.

This is lazy thinking. This is "I don't really approve of this behavior" thinking. I just discussed how nothing in the NK changes my view on that slot. That slot was my top scumread yesterday. If nothing changes, it stands to reason that it's my top scumread today. Why would I not vote my top scumread?

Keeping your vote on somebody for an extended period of time, on its own, isn't scummy. That sentence that you've quoted is part of a larger point that I'm trying to make.

Again, this is lazy. "I don't like that you haven't done what I want." You can't tell me, with a straight face, that you've never seen a town player vote someone and maintain that vote without providing a case.

You're right - townies vote without giving reasons all the time.

Does that mean I should ignore your lack of reasoning?

For what it's worth, this is also not something that bothers me on its own. It's part of a larger point - that you are not doing anything to get a read on him.

What, exactly, am I supposed to be asking him? He promised a catch-up post that only just now was delivered. I haven't been provided new content to question him about.

You didn't question him about any of his original content either, so this is a pretty bad excuse. You've literally never spoken to him once in this game.

[Papa Zito]

Ok well why don't you give it any value? If you are voting somebody for a particular player trait, then wouldn't you want to know if it's something that they usually do as town or as both alignments. Wouldn't that render your reasoning invalid?

This is a theory discussion that we can have some other time.

A theory discussion "some other time" isn't going to help me determine your alignment "right now". It's a simple question and I don't understand why you aren't answering - I can't just assume that you genuinely believe what you're saying because I don't know your alignment and your opinion makes zero sense to me right now.

A theory discussion is just white noise and isn't going to determine anything BUT if you really wanna dance this dance then we can.

Spoiler: this is theory, everyone else is free to ignore

I don't give any weight whatsoever to something a player does in other games or has done in the past. I honestly just don't care. There are way too many variables to make that kind of analysis meaningful. Saying "Well this player lurked in his last game and he's lurking here so he must be scum!" is stupid. Maybe he has computer issues! Maybe he has connection issues! Maybe Life Happened and he's super busy! Maybe he's burned out! Maybe he's just not having much fun! There's all kinds of perfectly reasonable explanations for why someone's behavior can change from game to game. I gave (what I consider) a super great analogy for this in another game but it isn't over yet or I'd import it here.

Here's a fun exercise - go review my past games. Iso me and ctrl-f meta. Report your findings to the class. If you're really serious about this shit you'll do it.

Keeping your vote on somebody for an extended period of time, on its own, isn't scummy.

Great.

You're right - townies vote without giving reasons all the time.

Great.

You didn't question him about any of his original content either, so this is a pretty bad excuse. You've literally never spoken to him once in this game.

I stg I have to go over this every fucking game. I'm not obligated nor required to grill someone in order to put a vote on them. I'm just fucking not. If other people are talking to someone and I don't feel the need to jump in and add something,

guess what I won't.

whoa slow the fuck down we have a crazy ass concept here. I really have 0 idea why people have decided I need to be held to this ridiculous standard when other people are free to do nothing but drop naked votes, snort coke, and post train pics without batting an eye. /rant

[EspeciallyTheLies]

RC prodded

.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't give any weight whatsoever to something a player does in other games or has done in the past. I honestly just don't care. There are way too many variables to make that kind of analysis meaningful.

Saying "Well this player lurked in his last game and he's lurking here so he must be scum!" is stupid.

Maybe he has computer issues! Maybe he has connection issues! Maybe Life Happened and he's super busy! Maybe he's burned out! Maybe he's just not having much fun! There's all kinds of perfectly reasonable explanations for why someone's behavior can change from game to game. I gave (what I consider) a super great analogy for this in another game but it isn't over yet or I'd import it here.

I never said that anyone was scum for doing something that they've done as scum in the past. I voted ConMan, but then un-voted because I realized that the behavior I voted him for was typical of his play style. What is wrong with that?

I stg I have to go over this every fucking game. I'm not obligated nor required to grill someone in order to put a vote on them. I'm just fucking not. If other people are talking to someone and I don't feel the need to jump in and add something,

guess what I won't.

whoa slow the fuck down we have a crazy ass concept here. I really have 0 idea why people have decided I need to be held to this ridiculous standard when other people are free to do nothing but drop naked votes, snort coke, and post train pics without batting an eye. /rant

You and RC are really the only two players that aren't giving points or asking your suspects questions. I'm not questioning RC for that right now because he's been considerably detached from this game and exudes a lot of confidence in his scum hunting abilities. But you have been asking other players questions, so I just assumed you were the type of player to get reads by asking questions - that's why it confuses me that you're not asking CMM anything. I don't know that this is necessarily a scum tell, but it's certainly an aspect of your play that doesn't make sense to me and I thought that your response would help me understand your thought process.

[Rob14]

Zito, you're saying the same thing as Wicked but coming to a crazy conclusion. The usefulness of meta to determine who is town and scum directly is questionable. I'd lean on the "not useful" side of that argument. That's not what is being argued here, though.

If Con exhibits trait X in this game and also exhibited trait X in his last five town games, then you can't say Con is scum because he exhibits trait X. History would prove you wrong on that point, because in fact Can

has

exhibited Trait X systematically as town. Does that mean he must be town? No. But it does mean he can't be scum

because of trait X

. That is the argument Wicked is making, and it's an undeniably useful purpose for meta. No-one can dispute that the argument that "X therefore scum" is contradicted by confirmed instances of "X and town". It's an application of basic logic.

And this is

not

a pointless theory discussion. It's an example of you shooting down information that contradicts the rationale for your reads. You're finding rationales to fit your reads, not fitting your reads to what's happening in game. That's like "How to Tell Someone is Scum 101". Can we

please

vote here instead of RC? I'm not against an RC lynch, but this is the sure thing. This is rapidly approaching 100% certainty with each scummy post.

[Rob14]

Actually,

UNVOTE: RC

Not against going back to RC in Day 2, Lynch 2. In fact, I probably will, since he's probably the other scum. But Zito is the scummiest scum that ever scummed and needs the rope.

[Papa Zito]

If I systematically shoot down meta in my town games, then my shooting meta down here is not scummy. How's that base logic.

But you have been asking other players questions, so I just assumed you were the type of player to get reads by asking questions - that's why it confuses me that you're not asking CMM anything. I don't know that this is necessarily a scum tell, but it's certainly an aspect of your play that doesn't make sense to me and I thought that your response would help me understand your thought process.

My thought process is that I don't have to ask someone questions if someone else already is. Unless there's something pressing that I want an answer on and whoever is doing the questioning isn't hitting that point, why the hell would I stick my nose in there and ruin someone else's efforts? Why not use the opportunity to watch not just the target but also the questioner to see if they're coming from a good place? Why not put my efforts elsewhere and broaden the town's overall scope of scumhunting instead of tunneling on someone that's already being questioned? ffs this seems so goddamn obvious to me, why do people have trouble with this.

[Papa Zito]

@Rob: uninstall your internet please.

[Papa Zito]

The

real

tell here is the way Rob's waiting for Wicked to commit before he does so himself.

[Rob14]

The

real

tell here is the way Rob's waiting for Wicked to commit before he does so himself.

HA. I committed in #537, before Wicked even entered the thread today with any commentary today.

[Rob14]

If I systematically shoot down meta in my town games, then my shooting meta down here is not scummy. How's that base logic.

There's meta and then there's basic logic. This isn't arguable. You're not scummy for disagreeing with meta. You're scummy for ignoring evidence that your read is objectively incorrect.

If you ignore the evidence systematically in your town games, then yes, that would make you not scummy for it. It would also make you shit at the game. I do not believe you're shit at the game.

[Papa Zito]

You're not scummy for disagreeing with meta.

Great.

I'm glad you guys are being so understanding. Here's a heart balloon in a strong breeze: ~~~<3

My ASCII skills are superior don't even try.

[Rob14]

Do you care to explain a single read? Provide any content whatsoever? Anything?

[RadiantCowbells]

I have little else to say.

We're not lynching Papa Zito though. He's town.

[Rob14]

Care to explain why?

Oh, wait. I forgot the entire scum team has a post restriction against that in this game.

Your last post with the word "Zito" in it was 490, where you said you had a scumread on him but didn't like the wagon for some reason. Now he's obvtown? What?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm pretty comfortable just saying that of all of the games I'm playing this is the one I'm least interested because of how weak the town players are.

Rob and Papa are town. It's 2 of {CMM,

Hey Rob. You know when I play the 'good little townie' game that you're jumping on me for not playing? when I'm scum. only then.

[RadiantCowbells]

Care to explain why?

Oh, wait. I forgot the entire scum team has a post restriction against that in this game.

Your last post with the word "Zito" in it was 490, where you said you had a scumread on him but didn't like the wagon for some reason. Now he's obvtown? What?

Go ahead and lose the game for town.

just don't involve me in it.

[Antihero]

too much yammering
not enough hammering

[RadiantCowbells]

Hammering who?

Me? Zito?

Fantastic choice of lynches there.

And I'm mostly done with exams so you're going to find lynching me to be a far more difficult prospect than it was.

[Antihero]

Actually,

UNVOTE: RC

Not against going back to RC in Day 2, Lynch 2. In fact, I probably will, since he's probably the other scum. But Zito is the scummiest scum that ever scummed and needs the rope.

oh fucking what?

[Antihero]

Hammering who?

Me? Zito?

Fantastic choice of lynches there.

And I'm mostly done with exams so you're going to find lynching me to be a far more difficult prospect than it was.

yes, obviously, since i'm voting zito