***Mini Normal 1744 - Country Music Mafia - Game Over***

[acryon]

Simply I'm not interested in it being there anymore.

Yes, that's my question. Why?

What

made you think RolePlay25 was scum?

What

made you think RolePlay25 was not scum?

[Please point out the posts

].

What? First, why wouldn't you ask me this when I voted? Second, my vote wasn't necessarily because I thought he was scum. Did I dislike his tunneling? Yep. Did I think things were getting out of control? Yep. Was I voting him because I thought he was most likely to be scum and I wanted him to die? Nope. That will always be the reason for my vote at the end of the day, but not necessarily during.

Interestingly Keyser, the person this makes not look good is you. The only wagon you're not on is supercool's who was twice on the same one as you. Do you generally jump on every wagon that comes along? Do you feel your vote is best-used on FA right now?

What do the reasons for me voting for RolePlay25, golden009 and BL0ODK1NG have anything to do with supercool898?
If voting RolePlay25, golden009 and BL0ODK1NG is "NOT LOOK GOOD", tell me what is 'LOOK GOOD'.
Are you saying supercool898 is sheeping me? Or I am sheeping supercool898?
I have voted for people I think are scum/or where I needed answers.
I can't see how that does not "look good". Please explain.

Clearly you were able to draw the conclusion that it potentially looks like one of you is sheeping the other, and your not being on supercool's wagon despite pushing on the others make that seem like you. I'm not saying I think you are scum; I am just pointing out that if we were looking for one person to look the worst based on those wagons, that person is you.

Do you feel your vote is best-used on FA right now?

Are you telling me to unvote or vote for someone else?
I will unvote when I feel like it.
I will vote someone else when I feel like it.

I'm not telling you to do anything. I asked you a question and for some reason you got defensive and didn't answer it...

[Frozen Angel]

I have voted for people I think are scum/or where I needed answers.

Can you please say which one am I?

you think I'm scum because ?

if you want answers why no question ?

I voted BL0ODK1NG because of BL0ODK1NG (scum).
My vote is still on your slot because I want to see you focus on others and not yourself: find 'scum' (answers).
(What % of your posts have been defensive... what % of your posts have been trying to scum-hunt / 'feel' other players out...)

Thus, a combination of both 'scum' and 'answers'.
I have been consciously looking at the nature of your wagon too (the timing/reasons of the votes, the timing/development of supercool898's counter-wagon).

you think I'm not trying by questioning my voters ?

I mean look at my posts ? I was trying to pressure supercool when people were stupidly pressuring me and calling me emotional?

and I'm asking you? and your rejecting ? Bloodking is not here. ask me questions , prove your voting for a real reason and try to sort me.

these things are townie ... not what your doing.

[Frozen Angel]

I leave for a day and this happens. I'm reading through now.

you ever finished reading ? your happy there is no more pressure on you?

what are your current reads?

[RolePlay25]

Deadline pressure?
Did you not just notice how this thread dies near the tail end of the week?
Factor in Xmas shopping, Xmas work parties and you have a one way ticket to Prodge City.
(and I've only been stressing the deadline on slots who deserve pressure, due to frustration).
If you're expecting everyone to be online near deadline, prepare to be disappointed.


Where's your reads list?

What is this obsession with reads list? What is it? It makes no sense. I choose not to make one because I see no reason for one. There only purpose? It's like a menu for the scum nightkill. "Ah, I see everyone town reads X, I suppose I should shoot them". Waste of fucking time. If you can't figure out my reads you ain't readin the game. I ask you to shit or you get off the pot, you shit your pants. Not good. Not good.

You don't get my vote anymore.

Unvote

[Dwlee99]

Why are you leaving the FA wagon so soon, roleplay? :/

[Keyser Söze]

Second, my vote wasn't necessarily because I thought he was scum.

I will keep this in mind when you vote someone in the future

, and will be sure to ask you:

'are you voting for this person because you think they are scum?'

I am just pointing out that if we were looking for one person to look the worst based on those wagons, that person is you.

You are in no position to say I "look the worst" based on the wagons I have been on (on Day 1 with no flips).
This only works if supercool898 is scum (and my historic/current scum reads are town). Now how the hell am I supposed to know which ones are 'good', and 'not good'?


This is the 2nd time I've said that sentence (post 212).

Do you feel your vote is best-used on FA right now?

Are you telling me to unvote or vote for someone else?
I will unvote when I feel like it.
I will vote someone else when I feel like it.

I'm not telling you to do anything. I asked you a question and for some reason you got defensive and didn't answer it...

It is a non-question. It is like me asking: was my vote best-used on RolePlay25 at the time? Yes.
Was my vote best-used on golden009 at the time? Yes.
"Is my vote best-used on FA right now?" Yes. That is why it is there.

I leave for a day and this happens. I'm reading through now.

you ever finished reading ? your happy there is no more pressure on you?

what are your current reads?

Good questions.

What is this obsession with reads list?

I was wondering if your other scum reads hinged on Frozen Angel being scum.
E.g when you thought supercool898 was scum, you thought I was his partner based on association tells.
I need to see/hear your individual reads.
You should be voting your scum-reads, not voting for who I vote for.

[Titus]

I have voted for people I think are scum/or where I needed answers.

Can you please say which one am I?

you think I'm scum because ?

if you want answers why no question ?

I am fine with my vote where it is.

Don't see myself voting FA atm.

[acryon]

Second, my vote wasn't necessarily because I thought he was scum.

I will keep this in mind when you vote someone in the future

, and will be sure to ask you:

'are you voting for this person because you think they are scum?'

This is fine with me. I have stated before and will say again that there is a difference between "I think this person is doing something scummy so I am going to put pressure on them to see what happens" and "I think they are scum". One is based on the actions and the other is based on the person. I'm not going to lynch someone for doing something scummy, but I will lynch someone for being scum. I get how this can be confusing, but town can do things that appear scummy, so we aren't looking at actions so much as we are trying to discover intent.

I am just pointing out that if we were looking for one person to look the worst based on those wagons, that person is you.

You are in no position to say I "look the worst" based on the wagons I have been on (on Day 1 with no flips).
This only works if supercool898 is scum (and my historic/current scum reads are town). Now how the hell am I supposed to know which ones are 'good', and 'not good'?


This is the 2nd time I've said that sentence (post 212).

Who looks worse than you based on those wagons?

Do you feel your vote is best-used on FA right now?

Are you telling me to unvote or vote for someone else?
I will unvote when I feel like it.
I will vote someone else when I feel like it.

I'm not telling you to do anything. I asked you a question and for some reason you got defensive and didn't answer it...

It is a non-question. It is like me asking: was my vote best-used on RolePlay25 at the time? Yes.
Was my vote best-used on golden009 at the time? Yes.
"Is my vote best-used on FA right now?" Yes. That is why it is there.

I wouldn't say it was a non-question. On the contrary, there was more than one facet to it. 1) I was essentially asking you why you thought it was the right place for your vote to be, and 2) I was asking you to be introspective and examine your own reasons to determine if it was, in fact, in the right place.

[golden009]

If I see sufficient evidence on that front, then I'll unvote.

Found sufficient evidence?

I think so. In scum games RC tends to self-meta more. However, meta can be changed. As Keyser said, I'd prefer RC over nobody, but both of the current wagons have legitimate reasons. UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells

IMO, talking about your own meta seems to be a slight (

slight

) scumtell. Saying that "I couldn't be scum, scum me does this" indicates that you are aware of your own meta, and being aware of meta can mean changing meta.

Also, loving the Frozen Angel drama. Not going to vote her, but I'd like to see where this goes in my reading.

[Dwlee99]

I feel like Acryon's questions to keyser are crap.
Just the "why didnt you answer the question" post after, as keyser said, is a non-question.
I also do not like the "looking bad before flips" thing.

P-edit: Then why didnt you just ask that then, acryon.

[golden009]

since I barely even saw a mention of supercool in your readthrough.

to show how much you skimmed my post :

in first post :

post 42 : that was indeed a fast read list
post 80 : why are you so worried about it? I mean ... he is not a doctor, right?! your afraid of a WIFOM ?
post 83 : you think its just a waste of role or are you role fishing?!
post 100 : god bless me. are you seriously going down through this path?
post 217 : having no solid scum reads mean your avoiding danger of being under town pressure. which is highly scum motivated ...

second post :

post 233 : your speaking of preventing a mis lynch ?!!!! :O I mean a mis lynch?!!! he wasn't even close to the hammer point then.
post 399 : ha?!

An amazing seven posts. With commentary like "god bless me. are you seriously going down this path" and "ha". I don't know how I really could have said this was nothing. To be honest, most of it seems cribbed from the reasons I voted Supercool, making this even more fascinating when you state I am tunneling and doing nothing.

Was I not promised a vote from you? You threaten me and threaten me and threaten me with this action. Where is the vote? I am starting to feel your threats are empty bluster, designed to make me retreat.

I accused him of role fishing , omgus , being afraid of WIFOM , talking about miss lynch's and distancing

Nice buzzwords. Any content to it?

[acryon]

I feel like Acryon's questions to keyser are crap.
Just the "why didnt you answer the question" post after, as keyser said, is a non-question.
I also do not like the "looking bad before flips" thing.

P-edit: Then why didnt you just ask that then, acryon.

Because the way I asked it was more interesting. It gave us a reaction and I was still able to follow up more directly. But I also don't understand how it was a non-question. You don't have to be a genius to read between the lines and understand what I am getting at. This game is all about getting information directly and indirectly through reactions. If I can do both with one question, why wouldn't I?

And for the record, it was Keyser who actually told RC to look at the wagons to develop reads...

[acryon]

Dwlee it's also clear to me you are putting far too much stock in your one game of experience with Keyser. Forget it. Any decent mafia player can and will adjust their style from game to game. Reads based on meta are just plain bad.

[golden009]

605: lol
608: Fairly sure that's RVS. You can't tell me that you believed that Cow believed that "posting first " is a scumtell instead of an RVS "reason".

Page 26: Meltdowns, yay! Personal insults, yay! Suicide threats, yay!

[golden009]

Also, loving Roleplay's transformation from English detective to American cop.

[RolePlay25]

What is this obsession with reads list?

I was wondering if your other scum reads hinged on Frozen Angel being scum.
E.g when you thought supercool898 was scum, you thought I was his partner based on association tells.
I need to see/hear your individual reads.
You should be voting your scum-reads, not voting for who I vote for.

Total shit. Total fucking shit. You should be trying to get your scum reads lynched, not playing dan the philosophy man. I don't know what this absurd desire for everyone to spoon feed you shit comes from, but it's a little new and a lot disturbing. Get your act together.

Acryon, you're town, and you appear to be better than dan the philosophy man, who do you actually want to lynch today now that you're done jacking off with your vote?

[Frozen Angel]

since I barely even saw a mention of supercool in your readthrough.

to show how much you skimmed my post :

in first post :

post 42 : that was indeed a fast read list
post 80 : why are you so worried about it? I mean ... he is not a doctor, right?! your afraid of a WIFOM ?
post 83 : you think its just a waste of role or are you role fishing?!
post 100 : god bless me. are you seriously going down through this path?
post 217 : having no solid scum reads mean your avoiding danger of being under town pressure. which is highly scum motivated ...

second post :

post 233 : your speaking of preventing a mis lynch ?!!!! :O I mean a mis lynch?!!! he wasn't even close to the hammer point then.
post 399 : ha?!

An amazing seven posts. With commentary like "god bless me. are you seriously going down this path" and "ha". I don't know how I really could have said this was nothing. To be honest, most of it seems cribbed from the reasons I voted Supercool, making this even more fascinating when you state I am tunneling and doing nothing.

Was I not promised a vote from you? You threaten me and threaten me and threaten me with this action. Where is the vote? I am starting to feel your threats are empty bluster, designed to make me retreat.

I accused him of role fishing , omgus , being afraid of WIFOM , talking about miss lynch's and distancing

Nice buzzwords. Any content to it?

I specially kept it long so you can see the post links...

and you might wanna go forward to see when I explained them more.

[acryon]

What is this obsession with reads list?

I was wondering if your other scum reads hinged on Frozen Angel being scum.
E.g when you thought supercool898 was scum, you thought I was his partner based on association tells.
I need to see/hear your individual reads.
You should be voting your scum-reads, not voting for who I vote for.

Total shit. Total fucking shit. You should be trying to get your scum reads lynched, not playing dan the philosophy man. I don't know what this absurd desire for everyone to spoon feed you shit comes from, but it's a little new and a lot disturbing. Get your act together.

Acryon, you're town, and you appear to be better than dan the philosophy man, who do you actually want to lynch today now that you're done jacking off with your vote?

While I don't agree with your way of describing my vote, I'm unsure of who I want to lynch today. There are some good questions out right now and I suspect we will learn a lot in the next 48 hours as we hash some of those things out.

[Keyser Söze]

Total shit. Total fucking shit. You should be trying to get your scum reads lynched, not playing dan the philosophy man. I don't know what this absurd desire for everyone to spoon feed you shit comes from, but it's a little new and a lot disturbing. Get your act together.

It's not shit. It's the truth. I saw you crumble last night, doubting your own scum-read. The role playing began to fade... the tears began to roll... I advised you (as a co-player) to take a step back and look at your reads/the wagon (the full picture). But you realised you were left with nothing, because you'd invested all your money and time into the Frozen Angel lynch. You needed a shoulder to cry on. Mario wasn't here, so you wanted me to tell you who to vote for. No double voter bullshit, vote for who you think is scum. I didn't want to play along, so now you've attached yourself to acryon, wanting him to tell you who to vote for. Get

your

act together. And a get a f***king avatar

[Dwlee99]

I feel like Acryon's questions to keyser are crap.
Just the "why didnt you answer the question" post after, as keyser said, is a non-question.
I also do not like the "looking bad before flips" thing.

P-edit: Then why didnt you just ask that then, acryon.

Because the way I asked it was more interesting. It gave us a reaction and I was still able to follow up more directly. But I also don't understand how it was a non-question. You don't have to be a genius to read between the lines and understand what I am getting at. This game is all about getting information directly and indirectly through reactions. If I can do both with one question, why wouldn't I?

And for the record, it was Keyser who actually told RC to look at the wagons to develop reads...

Well both of you are wrong about the wagon thing, then.
And I an sticking to my keyser read.

[Frozen Angel]

also golden I asked you about your reads and your responding yays?! :/

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler: a little no game related note from me to roleplay

I have a psychological sickness ( A real sickness) and last night in your posts you insulted me (called me Coward and things like that ...) . that literally ruined me ...

I'm kindly, respectfully , peacefully , whatever ... ask you to never do it again.

that's a real problem. ty for considering this

[acryon]

Well both of you are wrong about the wagon thing, then.
And I an sticking to my keyser read.

What is your reason for reading him as town other than meta?

[Dwlee99]

Gut + Meta.

[bji]

Ah finally. I can reveal the reason for my vote.

It's quite simple. Frozen Angel and RolePlay were bussing. I voted Frozen to put more pressure on her, hoping that if others piled on, we'd be able to see how much RolePlay really wanted to lynch her. I didn't want to tell my reasons then, because it would completely ruin any chance of getting an accurate read on RolePlay's intentions.

So how do I know that they were bussing? Consider:

- RolePlay makes some random early pressure on several players and then settles on Bloodking with a trumped-up case that he pushes hard. We've all seen how much RolePlay has "tunnelled" on the Bloodking/Frozen slot for most of the game by this point. Even Frozen admitted it.

- A reasonable explanation for this would be that RolePlay had agreed with Bloodking in scum pre-game chat to bus each other. It's a decent strategy, my scum partner and I won our first game with the same approach.

- But Bloodking goes AWOL. RolePlay is left bussing someone who isn't bussing back. This leaves RolePlay paralyzed because he has to keep bussing Bloodking on the assumption that he'll come back soon ... but Bloodking never comes back. Now RolePlay is left a bit out to dry but ...

- In comes Frozen to the rescue. Posts a bunch of fluffy comments to look like scum hunting and then, as her first action after this, in post 560, tells RolePlay:

"come drect on me RolePlay"

- So why did she post this? I'll tell you why. Frozen has access to the scum pre-chat and was able to read Bloodking and RolePlay's communication and knew they wanted to bus, but now that it's day she can't talk directly to RolePlay and so had to communicate her intention to continue the bus strategy. And there it was, in black and white. "come direct on me RolePlay".

- Immediately, RolePlay starts bussing her, hard. And she busses back, with lots of emotion and drama.

I started to get the feeling that there could be bussing here soon after these two started going at it, so I decided to make the game interesting by seeing if we could get Frozen close to L-1 and then see what RolePlay would do. If he dropped off the wagon, that would be further evidence - he doesn't want to really lynch Frozen, so he has to start acting uncertain ... which HE DOES, right around post 715. RolePlay is starting to beg Keyser to give him a reason to leave the Frozen wagon!

And Keyser doesn't play along; but RolePlay leaves anyway! 778

I am now 100% convinced that Frozen and RolePlay were bussing. I don't care which of Frozen or RolePlay goes first, but one of them has to go.