Mini 1747: Cinnamon Roll Mafia Endgame

[3dicerolling]

Vote Count: 1.8

Too busy to do flavor. Maybe some cinnamon rolls would energize me.

hawkleader3 - (0)
Soapbar - (0)
FA_Q2 - (3) lolbabe, syndesis, iraonvap

(L-4)

MoosyDoosy - (0)
toolenduso - (2) TheCow, Chaotic Neutrality
TheCow - (0)
Metrion - (0)
Swordsworth - (1) Soapbar
lolbabe - (0)
iraonavp - (1) MoosyDoosy
Chaotic Neutrality - (3) FA_Q2, toolenduso, hawkleader3

(L-4)

Syndesis - (0)
davesaz - (0)

Not voting: davesaz, Metrion, Swordsworth

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Mod Notes: toolenduso is V/LA until Sunday, TheCow is V/LA until Monday.

Day 1 ends: (expired on 2015-12-27 23:20:59)

[Syndesis]

I'm also willing to compromise onto CN at this point.

I think? we need 3 more votes on one wagon. I realize holiday VLAs and all but ugh. (Why are there 3 people not voting even?)

[davesaz]

Reviewed CN iso. Nothing but a weak push on Moosy and calling out toolenduso for defending moosy + pushing CN while ignoring the other people who had voted for him.

[davesaz]

Reviewing FA-Q2 ISO. The only thing I saw that was at all scummy was one I pointed out already, where a question would have been a better response to the "it's inevitable" post.
I'd say more town than scum. Here are some examples with my thoughts.

Spoiler: examples

That makes no sense. Scum can make up reasons just as easily as town could, and they'll often look better because they're paying attention to how people read them.

Placement of the votes and motivation matter a hundred times more than reason.

I don't like this post one bit.

You cast doubt on Dave's statement but fail to complete your statement. If placement mattered so much more then why did you not bother to address those that jumped on where you consider scummy placement? I would also state you are completely incorrect. Placement matters but scum can just as easily manipulate that as they can come up with reasoning. Reasoning is a powerful tool for town - as the game rolls on scum tend to reveal themselves with inconsistent reasoning and in the motivations behind those reasons.

Calls out CN for casting doubt on my assertion that "reasons" is townier than "no reasons" but not following through with the thought that placement matters.

bored with my current vote so

VOTE: davesaz

Is that your only reason to change votes?

What do you man by 'feelings' for dave? I don't really see where dave has been scummy.

Scum are more likely to let a meaningless vote slide, where town are more likely to question it. Though it would not be impossible for scum wanting to look town to make a post like this.

I'm sorry I'm not in logical mode right now!

not

I really just have no idea what I'm doing in this game anymore except kind of flailing.

Another attempt at reads incoming.

Not really liking these posts. Syndesis votes me and then places some reasoning for that vote. The instant that it is pointed out that the reasoning is rather vapid, they run from those statements. It feels very appeasey to me in general.

Scum tend to not make a big deal of it when they are unvoted. Town tend to question it more because they want to distinguish the scum voting them from the town voting them.

[Syndesis]

What's your preferred wagon, then?

[3dicerolling]

Prodding Swordsworth.

[davesaz]

What's your preferred wagon, then?

I'm reading back in. First the people who have votes, then selected others.

Looking next at toolenduso, I didn't really have an opinion until he tried to push me for casting doubt. That whole exchange seems very townie to me. He went into a lot more detail than I'd expect from scum, and stuck with it when I came back strong. I would have expected scum to break off when I said I understood his push but disagreed, and would also have expected a stronger reaction to the soft "maybe you're scum for still pushing". Then he looks into background and comes around on his own, where scum would have let it die down and keep the justification for a future mislynch attempt.

The later analysis of CN is pretty strong. I think I probably agreed with it the first time I read it. Having some doubts on FA (who had earlier started pushing CN for the same things, but weaker push) is also a town mindset. Can't dismiss that angle, scum might indeed push weakly on their partner and it might look just like FA's push. And I can certainly imagine a scum partner not wanting their push to be forgotten lest they lose the town cred, so FA bringing up that CN focused only on toolenduso's push is also a scumtell.

Having reread the 3 people with more than one vote, I'm getting a strong town on toolenduso, weak scum on FA, strong scum on CN.

VOTE: Chaotic Neutrality

To answer another previous question, we needed 4 more votes, with me it's 3.

Previous reads included a medium town on Hawk and a WTF on Moosy. The rest would take more rereading, and we're unlikely to swing a lynch on anyone else today anyway.

[davesaz]

Note, my read on FA changed between my two posts, because one of toolenduso's posts had analysis on FA that I had not considered.

[toolenduso]

@Soap

: What are your thoughts on Chaotic?

[iraonavp]

I very much do not want a nolynch, so despite reading him as town-aligned I will reluctantly vote for Chaotic Neutrality (or any wagoned player, really) closer to the deadline if we are at risk of a nolynch.

[toolenduso]

^is there anybody you wouldn't lynch? If yes, who? If no, who would be your least preferred lynch (other than yourself)?

[iraonavp]

I would rather lynch any player other than myself in preference to a nolynch.

hawkleader3, toolenduso, Syndesis are people who would be my least preferred lynches.

I would consider a policy lynch on MoosyDoosy, but I don't think it's likely that he'll flip scum.

[davesaz]

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?
This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

[Syndesis]

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

Could say much the same about you. (Or, in fact, much of the playerlist.)

[davesaz]

I assume you didn't read 431 despite it just being an hour ago?

[iraonavp]

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?

They... seem town-aligned? Their posts are genuine and train-of-thought, s that what you want to hear? I am not good at town-aligned reads. Let's say it is a "gut read", if that makes it easier.

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I read Metrion, FA_Q2, TheCow and you as scum-aligned to various degrees. The deadline is forcing a compromise lynch.

[FA_Q2]

You didn't ask any questions in 412. The fact that you pointed out inconsistencies in davesaz's posting does not make you look more like a scum-aligned player to me. The fact that you approached it in such a subtle and doubtful way (his comment is "odd", not "scummy", or even "null" as I would consider it) makes you look scum-aligned.

That is because his comment is not 'scummy' in and of itself. It was simply odd or out of character from what I consider dave's normal posting.

I see that pointing out oddities is a problem with you. If town feels the need to lynch me over it then so be it.

UNVOTE: Metrion
VOTE: FA_Q2

While I remain no less convinced that Metrion is scum-aligned, there is not much time left and I would like to lynch someone today! In its current position, my vote is all but useless. I believe that of the current wagons, FA_Q2 is most likely to be scum-aligned, toolenduso is most likely to be town-aligned,

and Chaotic Neutrality is still reasonably likely to be town-aligned.

Metrion, I intend to respond to your post when I get the chance (I am currently rather busy).

Why?

I explained this previously in 372!

Your explanation is rather vapid. You point out that his response to being pushed was towny. What response? He has simply ignored being pushed. When has ignoring things been towny?



At this point me and CN are the lynch candidates. If you are not voting one of us then you should be.

[FA_Q2]

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?

They... seem town-aligned? Their posts are genuine and train-of-thought, s that what you want to hear? I am not good at town-aligned reads. Let's say it is a "gut read", if that makes it easier.

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I read Metrion, FA_Q2, TheCow and you as scum-aligned to various degrees. The deadline is forcing a compromise lynch.

How is this a compromise lynch? You want to lynch me and I am one of the leading wagons.

[Syndesis]

I assume you didn't read 431 despite it just being an hour ago?

...well. Okay, I only sort of read it. My bad. (Although, to be fair, up until that post your iso is fairly stance-light.)

[iraonavp]

You didn't ask any questions in 412. The fact that you pointed out inconsistencies in davesaz's posting does not make you look more like a scum-aligned player to me. The fact that you approached it in such a subtle and doubtful way (his comment is "odd", not "scummy", or even "null" as I would consider it) makes you look scum-aligned.

That is because his comment is not 'scummy' in and of itself. It was simply odd or out of character from what I consider dave's normal posting.

Then why mention it at all then? I don't believe that you were motivated by pure and innocent curiousity, it seemed intended to cast doubt on davesaz.

I see that pointing out oddities is a problem with you. If town feels the need to lynch me over it then so be it.

I do feel the need!

UNVOTE: Metrion
VOTE: FA_Q2

While I remain no less convinced that Metrion is scum-aligned, there is not much time left and I would like to lynch someone today! In its current position, my vote is all but useless. I believe that of the current wagons, FA_Q2 is most likely to be scum-aligned, toolenduso is most likely to be town-aligned,

and Chaotic Neutrality is still reasonably likely to be town-aligned.

Metrion, I intend to respond to your post when I get the chance (I am currently rather busy).

Why?

I explained this previously in 372!

Your explanation is rather vapid. You point out that his response to being pushed was towny. What response? He has simply ignored being pushed. When has ignoring things been towny?

By his response I mean posts such as 352 and 355. I think that he shows an apathetic town response to being wagoned. I don't see why ignoring things can't be "towny" simply as a matter of principle.

[iraonavp]

Can you give some details on the Syndesis read?

They... seem town-aligned? Their posts are genuine and train-of-thought, s that what you want to hear? I am not good at town-aligned reads. Let's say it is a "gut read", if that makes it easier.

This sounds like you have no true scum reads at all?

I don't understand where you're getting this from. I read Metrion, FA_Q2, TheCow and you as scum-aligned to various degrees. The deadline is forcing a compromise lynch.

How is this a compromise lynch? You want to lynch me and I am one of the leading wagons.

A compromise lynch because Metrion would be my first pick for today's lynch.

[davesaz]

Hmm, I'm having a problem finding your initial reason for scum reading Metrion.

[Chaotic Neutrality]

VOTE: FA_Q2

Better him than me

[Swordsworth]

Ugh, sorry everybody, I really should have taken a V/LA. Holiday dinner after holiday dinner after holiday dinner... *shudder*

Oh...what is this, Chaotic? Better him than you?

And why is that, necessarily?

[iraonavp]

Hmm, I'm having a problem finding your initial reason for scum reading Metrion.

In my second post, I said that he looked scum-aligned from even his first few posts. His further responses convinced me that I was right. Maybe I didn't elaborate on it as much as I thought I did, but he's really scummy and you should be able to see how anyway.