NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

[Titus]

Davsto - Scum
Espeonage - Weak scum, only real content is bad multiball assertion
Nero Cain - Can't tell.
Drixx - Town, has my exact viewvon Nero. The logic and hunting is clear
pignash -Weak town, the wagon on him is shit
Firebringer - Lean scum, vote the biggest wagon no content slog
Shinobi - Null possible scum face, he's avoiding commenting on the major wagons but the ones he wants to push. The opening where he was glad to be town pinged wrong
Grib -Obvious town to anyone reading
Frozen Angel - null every time I place her in one category or the other, I change my mind
Shiro - Royalty after my own heart
Aj The Epic- Weak scum, had the wagon issues, opened stronger today
Titus - Town
Elyse -Conftown
pistachi0n - Scum
Heat - Had stronger play today, lean town
Dwlee99 - weak town, got buddying concerns.

[Titus]

I said you're good at scumhunting in general, but you haven't in this game. My reads are completely opposite of yours and you were wrong on me.

So I think you're scum. Your case on Dave is shit as I've said time and time again and the fact that you can't come up with anything besides "He treated me like scum have treated me in the past" is a testament to that. That kind of case doesn't appeal to a broader audience and you're content to call Dave scum and then go "oh well" and lynch someone else at the very end. And then that person flips town and you go "see I told you we should've lynched Dave." It's so obvious that you're scum to me and the wagon on you isn't getting off the ground because you've managed to discredit everyone on it so people don't trust it.

No the reason no one is on Dave is because he's posting less than anyone here and skating. You're discrediting me and anyone else who is active.

You had a full wagon on you as town and cannot point to anything scummy in my ISO beyond Titus is good at this game and wrong. Newsflash being wrong and scumreading conftown when they try to pick a fight with you is not scummy.

Rather than fighting, let's try to find some common ground we agree on. K?

[Titus]

At some point Elyse you need to lead in scumhunting or trust those who do.

[Dwlee99]

When you are moved down to weak town. ;-;

[Grib]

@Dwlee
I agree with you that Titus is good at scumhunting. And she's been pushing town so far in this game so she's probably scum.

Being wrong about your scumreads doesn't make you scum.

I think her attitude makes her very town. And in my experience, the less sense Titus makes, the more likely she is to be town. Especially when she's super pushy and whiny about nobody following her reads.

I don't agree with Espeo's thing, but I think he's town for it.

I think he's trying to maintain a thread presence without actually pushing reads. All he's been talking about is the multiball thing, which. I don't really care.

I still want a Titus lynch. I will settle for pignash, though, and I don't want pistachi0n lynched today. I think he's been town as of late, but

I still think one of AJ/pistach is probably scum

so I need to reevaluate there.

Yeah, that's pretty conflicting and definitely something I'd like for you to resolve sooner rather than later.

w/r/t Aj not claiming: it's possible he's a powerful scum PR and didn't want to risk getting CC'd and instalynched the next Day if he fakeclaimed. The problem with that is it looked like he was just going to let himself die without pushing a different wagon, but I suppose that could be a reason for why the Mario wagon got so much traction.

So I am scumhunting really well, no one's lynching my biggest scumreads so that means I am scum? Really? If you don't agree with espy then you think it's single ball. Single ball means scum aren't scumhunting.That would make me town.

You want to lead, then step up be here and lead. Right now, all you're doing is pushing tow and detracting from those of us playing.

What if both AJ and Pistachion are scum?

Please get out of our way in lynching scum or help out Elyse.

Town is having trouble coming together. You picking someone who can actually be scum to lynch would help out a lot.

I've been entertaining this thought, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Grib]

Titus: look at how glad Dwlee was to see that Elyse was actually a PR all along, in addition to the comment he made that he suspected he knew it the Day before.

I KNEW IT. I KNEW IT!!!

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

So what I saw was this, which made it clear that they were a power role. That was my secret.

I thought these were really, really town.

Plus, if he were scum, they'd probably have shot probable!PR!Elyse over ???!who-even-knows!RadiantCowbells.

[Stairway to the Abyss]

Titus: look at how glad Dwlee was to see that Elyse was actually a PR all along, in addition to the comment he made that he suspected he knew it the Day before.

I KNEW IT. I KNEW IT!!!

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

So what I saw was this, which made it clear that they were a power role. That was my secret.

I thought these were really, really town.

Plus, if he were scum, they'd probably have shot probable!PR!Elyse over ???!who-even-knows!RadiantCowbells.

I Get the statements. It just doesn't make sense 1 v 1 = Elyse is town PR.

[Grib]

Titus (again): these are Heat's posts toDay.

My 1v1 has nothing to do with AJ.

Also you're calling me scum for sticking with it but saying I'd look worse if I dropped it soooo lol

I'd say that both situations make you look pretty bad, and nitpicking this part just makes you look like you're trying to find some fault in drixx's argument. pretty scummy if you ask me

I know something you don't titus. At least I think I do..

What was the point of this

@Mod: V/LA until Tuesday the 22nd, Final Exam hustle.

wooo its almost christmas and I'm finally done exams

catching up now

yo pignash, instead of whining that we shouldn't lynch you cause you're town, why don't you actually show us that you're town? just saying "stop it" isn't enough.

drixx, is it possible to get the D1 thoughts yet?

Also sounds a lot like trying to outguess the mod tbh.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Where is the strong play?

[Grib]

Titus: look at how glad Dwlee was to see that Elyse was actually a PR all along, in addition to the comment he made that he suspected he knew it the Day before.

I KNEW IT. I KNEW IT!!!

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

So what I saw was this, which made it clear that they were a power role. That was my secret.

I thought these were really, really town.

Plus, if he were scum, they'd probably have shot probable!PR!Elyse over ???!who-even-knows!RadiantCowbells.

I Get the statements. It just doesn't make sense 1 v 1 = Elyse is town PR.

Why not? It makes perfect sense: if a town PR is 1v1ing a scumread, the PR will always win.

Plus, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense. I think the excitement is genuine.

[Titus]

Titus: look at how glad Dwlee was to see that Elyse was actually a PR all along, in addition to the comment he made that he suspected he knew it the Day before.

I KNEW IT. I KNEW IT!!!

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

So what I saw was this, which made it clear that they were a power role. That was my secret.

I thought these were really, really town.

Plus, if he were scum, they'd probably have shot probable!PR!Elyse over ???!who-even-knows!RadiantCowbells.

I Get the statements. It just doesn't make sense 1 v 1 = Elyse is town PR.

Was me.

[Titus]

Titus: look at how glad Dwlee was to see that Elyse was actually a PR all along, in addition to the comment he made that he suspected he knew it the Day before.

I KNEW IT. I KNEW IT!!!

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

So what I saw was this, which made it clear that they were a power role. That was my secret.

I thought these were really, really town.

Plus, if he were scum, they'd probably have shot probable!PR!Elyse over ???!who-even-knows!RadiantCowbells.

I Get the statements. It just doesn't make sense 1 v 1 = Elyse is town PR.

Why not? It makes perfect sense: if a town PR is 1v1ing a scumread, the PR will always win.

Plus, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense. I think the excitement is genuine.

Not in my book and I am surprised you'd buy it but yeah that was my biggest concern there. It also totally assumes that I sm not a PR.

[Titus]

@Grib, All of those are good posts. Pressuring Drixx for his thoughts, telling Espy to scumhunt by stating he's wrong, the inquiring about Dwelee's confidence there. I agreed with Heat's analysis that she's looking for fault in others rather than presenting case herself.

[Grib]

Come on, Titus. Easy posts are easy.

This is how I'm reading them:

- Elyse is scummy to the max, but I'm not going to follow it up with anything. Also here's an easy question to Dwlee. => bad
- V/LA => null
- I'm catching up, but spoiler from the future: you will not actually see the results of any kind of catch-up from me. => bad
- Hey pignash, show, don't tell us you're town. I'm not going to engage with you in any meaningful way beyond this, btw. => bad
- Drixx, your D1 thoughts? => good
- Setup spec is bad also this is a fluffpost. => bad

[Titus]

By the time Heat could follow up, Elyse was confirmed as IC.

The catching up post is null. She posts the results a little later.

You're assuming Heat won't engage beyond that.

As a whole, heat's pressuring people and getting her feet wet.

Is it possible she's scum? Sure. If she has less content, she will be scumread. Her posts are an improvement from D1 though.

[Fro99er]

prodding Nero cain

[Grib]

What results? Those are literally all of Heat's posts toDay.

Disagree that he's improved. He had more content yesterDay.

[Titus]

Great, we'll agree to disagree there since it's a circular argument you are making due to being bullheaded.

Why don't you look at Dave's posts and try to find content from today? Bitching at or about me doesn't count.

[Fro99er]

(expired on 2015-12-30 16:30:00)

(Wed Dec 30 @ 4:30:00 PM ET)

VOTECOUNT 2.10

• (0)
  Davsto
  —
  (0)
  Espeonage
  —
  (0)
  Nero Cain
  —
  (0)
  Drixx
  —
  (5)
  pignash
  — Shinobi, Shiro, Nero Cain, Frozen Angel, Firebringer
  (0)
  Firebringer
  —
  (0)
  Shinobi
  —
  (0)
  Grib
  —
  (0)
  Frozen Angel
  —
  (0)
  Shiro
  —
  (0)
  Aj The Epic
  —
  (4)
  Titus
  — Davsto, Espeonage, Elyse, pistachi0n
  (0)
  Elyse
  —
  (5)
  pistachi0n
  — pignash, Grib, Titus, Dwlee99, Drixx
  (1)
  Heat
  — Aj The Epic
  (0)
  Dwlee99
  —
  

(1)

[NOT VOTING]

— Heat

With

16

alive

, it takes

9

votes

to lynch.

[Grib]

Titus, what results? I want you to point me to them. They either exist or they don't. There is no 'bullheaded'.

It is an objective fact that Heat posted more content yesterDay than toDay. Attribute it to V/LA, lurking, holidays, whatever. It's still true.

If we're going to argue content, I don't know why you're giving Heat a pass.

[Grib]

Spoiler: OKAY SO THIS TURNED OUT TO BE A LITTLE LARGER THAN I EXPECTED

This is a weak post. Everyone you 'wouldn't mind' lynching is a lurker. You take only the easiest routes on any of your reads and echo exactly what Titus has for reads for your 'will not lynch'. There's no independent thought here.

Just quoting to see if AJ pushes someone for being a lurker.

I like Dwlee for town I just think that he's wrong.

You think pistachi0n is town?

I am fairly certain one of pistachi0n/zimpf is scum

Walk me through the reasoning that

a) there's a confirmed scum between those two players and
b) that there's only one confirmed scum between those two players
c) that none of the above information points to any specific one of them, just the pair.

Good set of questions from RadiantCowbells here.

There is no reasoning.

Grib is basically the towniest motherfucker in this game/


Just a feeling. I mean you could argue that both of them COULD be scum but I wish to believe not two scum are hard lurking like that

Bad set of answers from Shiro here.

Dwlee's pistach tunnel (although is it really a tunnel if there are more than enough good reasons for it?) looks townie.

I'm willing to bet money this is multiball.

Uhh... why? Seems rather non-sequitur.

Wtf zymf..
you
. wtf

What the actual crap..
just to get it off of your back..?
the entire wagon that was on me has joined my wagon has moved to pistachio despite scum reading me.. wuuuuutttt.
Mario, it is multiball..

Another multiball spec-ing? This seems odd. Why are people first jumping to the conclusion of multiball explaining what's happening rather than, idk, them being wrong with their reads? Or a bad bus?

I'm sorry for being inactive, I shouldn't have joined this game :/
@Frogger: If you have a replacement ready, I don't mind being replaced.

Most of the active players seem to agree that we shouldn't lynch Dwlee. I don't really understand why, but...

6) Subtly associates Pistach with Zymf.

I don't mind lynching pistachion either. So just to get this off my back, I think we should lynch him.
VOTE: Pistachi0n

I don't know what to make of this.

Help

Wow, this is a really good way to "comment" on a post while literally saying jack shit.

You wouldn't lie to me.

So you're saying that if you were scum this game, right now, you would admit that you're scum and vote yourself?

Yes

ok.

I'm a sucker for ate.

VOTE: Aj

I- uh- what? RC looks like he's being silly RC here, which is all well and good, but it's still a weird conversation. If RC

is

scum, this basically means that Elyse isn't his partner, because this would be the weirdest way for scumbuddies to behave, by attracting attention to themselves using a silly reason to unvote over several posts.

What's your read on me?

I was scumreading you but upon reflection and some meta from our old games (good times btw) I'm not so sure of that read anymore. Gun to my head, you're town.

Wow, townreading him basically just after he decided you were town? What a realistic development that isn't even slightly convenient.

Let us look at our options..
either pistachio and zymf are scum together and zymf is bussing
Zymf is town and voting pistachio
Or zymf and the nut are part of different scum teams
What seems most likely?

I would happily argue that the first and second are easier conclusions to come to. This seems like a weird justification. Bleh.

Lining up lynches, etc.

Seriously his ISO is terrible. I'm not moving my vote.

Titus are you willing to 1v1 me tomorrow?

VOTE: AJ

I am 1v1ing Titus tomorrow

Intent to hammer.

I'm leaving my house in 45 min and will hammer if MM doesn't claim by then.

1v1ing Titus tomorrow.

Just putting that first quote by the other three. Take a look and spot the issue!

snip
Well, at a glance, it isn't impossible. None of them have voted together, except in the last votal, which. Makes me less inclined to lynch pistachi0n.

VCA pre flips? Really?

No single wagon toDay has had more than six votes, when the necessary needed to lynch is ten. I think this suggests a scumteam that's timid, overly-careful, new, or lurking.

Or a low charisma scumteam that cannot push a counterwagon to scum but is better at defending and wking.

Dave Elyse AJ.

This is certainly a change of opinion. She goes from saying that pre-flip VCA is bad to suddenly having a VCA which supports her hypothesis.

I don't think Dwlee is scum anymore. He's so adamant, every post of his is "LYNCH PISTACHI0N LYNCH PISTACHI0N" and he even argued with Titus about the right reason to vote me when Titus was willing to vote me anyway.

I'm scum-reading Shinobi. Half of the posts are about semantics, "I guess," or statements with no elaboration.

VOTE: Shinobi

This is a weeeird post. He just comes in, makes a non-sequitur comment, basically ignoring everything else going on, places a vote on a vanity wagon.

I don't think Dwlee is scum anymore. He's so adamant, every post of his is "LYNCH PISTACHI0N LYNCH PISTACHI0N" and he even argued with Titus about the right reason to vote me when Titus was willing to vote me anyway.

I'm scum-reading Shinobi. Half of the posts are about semantics, "I guess," or statements with no elaboration.

VOTE: Shinobi

What? Where?

Like in 1088 "I can be swayed, I guess"
964 statement with no elaboration
In posts like 357 and 521 he's disagreeing but not giving content/elaborating.

When questioned, he (almost 100 posts later) gives an amazing four posts out of Shinobi's 50 or so posts at this point that vaguely support his point I guess. This is kinda meh. Plus, the irony of "statement with no elaboration" considering that his last post was a statement with no elaboration.

Oh it's so fun to post and then immediately get called scum...

It's almost like it's the reason I have said little to nothing the whole game because I feel like opening my mouth means being scumread. It's discouraging really. Every third person is throwing out naked scum reads so it's not like I'm alone in this.

Blaming other people for his own lurking. Nasty.

YAY ONLY TWENTY PAGES TO GO FUCKING HELL

ψοολ ψοολ δριχχ υοθ δο τηατ

ςε νεεδ σομε φρεση οπινιονσ

I don't get what you're trying to say here, Shiro. It's all Greek to me.

Well that was interesting.

what was?

ψοολ ψοολ δριχχ υοθ δο τηατ

ςε νεεδ σομε φρεση οπινιονσ

I fxied it right the next post. Forgot my keyboard was on greek input

So mafia is all Greek to you. [/joke]

gdi

Oh by the way, Davesto has ignored this thread after the pressure on him abated.

This is scummy. After me having already justified that I was away for IRL reasons literally 42 posts ago, she seems to have forgotten this and decides to call it out as if it were scummy.

Aight my Heat vote isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: AJ

Buy your free opportunism here!

Dwlee, why were you blindly trusting Titus when you switched votes earlier?

Looks like someone saw something convenient to comment on that happened a while ago whilst still ignoring a large amount of things that are going on. Cool, cool.

It ain't a scum response to attack your ego, Titus. It's sad you think that, too because it prevents a lot of proper discussion.

It is a scum response to attack ego. Town argue with evidence. I am aware of the size of my own ego.

Attacking ego is a logical fallacy and the sole purpose of such is to discredit the poster and not address the truth of the argument.

While me arguing at you with evidence meant I was still scum for *reasons*, obviously.

vote:Mario

This shit is townie as hell, regardless of either AJ's alignment. Quitting an easy lynch to push a town wagon would make no sense from scum. If AJ is town, then he's a PR and scum supposedly just gave up the opportunity to be rid of a town PR. If AJ is scum, it's really fucking ballsy to change the wagon whilst being his scum partner, not to mention something that could easily screw him over later.

Basically, Nero is likely town, Grib is the towniest, and Titus and Elyse are the most likely to be scum.

I'm more inclined to lynch Titus because I don't trust in people lynching her once I'm dead.

VOTE: Titus

@dave

Do you think Titus and I are scum together?

I think there's a good chance of both of you being scum, yes, from your individual behaviours.

Thinking about associatives (i.e. but they don't look like they're scum together!) before the flip leads to unnecessary doubt.

I have a scumread on pistach as well. Apparently I'm scum because I don't explicitly state every single one of my reads I get from a big post. The post took a while to make, surprisingly enough, and pistach wasn't one I remembered that much because I was really fucking tired.

Oh, I'm not town, dave?

Also, what is this post? Because I'm not townreading him, I get a snarky comment and a dirty look?

The thing about what I see as a potential scumslip (as I say, it's quite small so idk), I'd have ignored it if she did it once, but she's done it a lot.

Dave AJ Elyse is where I am at currently

Well they arent saying it so thy are scum. c'mon. *choochoo*

Now wouldn't be the time to say it.

Dave Elyse AJ. I want them.

Pistachio isn't a policy lynch.

To me, he is. Dave Elyse and Aj are scum lynches.

No single wagon toDay has had more than six votes, when the necessary needed to lynch is ten. I think this suggests a scumteam that's timid, overly-careful, new, or lurking.

Or a low charisma scumteam that cannot push a counterwagon to scum but is better at defending and wking.

Dave Elyse AJ.

Titus, if you are right about pistachio I will sheep you tomorrow (within reason ofc♥

You're only voting Dave AJ or Elyse if I die and they aren't cleared.

Neither of those are smart moves. The only reason Pig is wagoned is because not AJ/Dave/Elyse

Dave Elyse Espy sounds good as Le scums

Does anyone else see it?
For some reason, whenever she looks for a potential scumteam, she (almost, see below) always lists three players. Me AJ Elyse. Me Elyse Espy. Her first post she said "so far I have", but by the last few, it looks like she thinks that's the entire scumteam.

My question is, why is she looking for a 3-player scumteam in an 18-player game? In my experience, they almost always have 4 scum. Something's telling me Titus knows something.

Only problem is the below post, which is an exception, as it's the only time she lists four players.

Hey Vig, Mario is still lurking scum.

Just reminding you.

I want the vig to shoot Davesto who gave nothing protown under pressure and has avoided this thread since his wagon dissipated.

Davesto AJ Elyse MM4?

I know it's quite small and is likely confbias, but it just bugged me a lot after I thought about it and realised it was a pattern.

Characterizing me as whining isn't really what I'm doing. I'm expressing frustration that I'm an easy mislynch. I am fairly sure story's is town and she thinks Dave is scum so I am willing to go with that. I was ISOing Heat yesterday cuz something seemed off but nothing jumped off the page as "I'm scummy!"

Confusion.

You're willing to go with someone who you think is town (story's? Who's that?) but not someone you know is town (Elyse)? Why's that? Do you have any reads of your own?

Shiro I don't have a good handle on.

Why bring this up? You didn't mention any of your other null reads in this post, why bring up Shiro?

1. I am townreading you
2. You are good at scumhunting

What previous experience do you have with playing with Titus?

Dwlee, why are you focusing on mine and Titus' wagons, while ignoring pignash's wagon, which is currently the largest?

Why say the Titus wagon is "all sketch" when there is literally a confirmed town on it?

Why are Drixx and Titus town?

That concludes question time thanks and goodnight

Also, Dwlee, do you actually have a reason why I'm scum?

Content. Whether it comes from town or scum is another matter.

[Titus]

Titus, what results? I want you to point me to them. They either exist or they don't. There is no 'bullheaded'.

It is an objective fact that Heat posted more content yesterDay than toDay. Attribute it to V/LA, lurking, holidays, whatever. It's still true.

If we're going to argue content, I don't know why you're giving Heat a pass.

You literally just quoted it. :/

[Titus]

@Grib, That's all conclusions and questions. He's not analyzing anything but feeling the thread out and whining. None of those are content. Content seeks to determine why someone thinks they do or push an argument.

1: These people are all town.I won't say Titus is scum but you better lynch her because I don't trust you. No substance there.

2: Says Elyse and I could both be scum, baiting us against each other.

3: Dismissises people who scumread him as play style. Whahhh Dwelee is scumreading me too.

4: Titus is likely town confbiasing me correctly but here let me try to call game solving a scumslip.

5: Says Elyse should be sheeped because conftown. Says Pignash lacks independent reads because of the fact he's pushing someone.

6: irrelevant question. Dwele is not using meta to read me. He's scrambling for something to discredit.

7: Why are you looking into my wagon? How dare you look into my non existent reasoning to be on Titus? Why are you townreading town?

8: Attacks those who scumread him.

There's no scumhunting here at all.

[Grib]

None of that is a catch-up. It doesn't acknowledge

anything

that happened since his last post; Heat just asks Drixx a question and tells pignash to stop whining. Like, making those posts doesn't require you to even know what's going on outside of a quick glance at the thread. How are those the result of a catch-up, in any universe?

That's exactly what he's doing! He's asking questions [to determine why someone thinks about something] and pushing an argument [that you're scum]. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it isn't content.

[Grib]

Like. You are straight up rephrasing your own definition of 'content' to make him look bad. :/

[Grib]

How can you seek to determine why someone is thinking the way they are without questions and drawing conclusions???

like god above please someone Cop check Davsto or Titus, I'm begging you