Mini 499: Just Your typical Mafia Game GAME OVER!!!!!!!!

[ChocolateAttack]

Erm right okay.

Let's just hope you don't act like such a total ass in your new game.

For the record I still think CLA/Prof.Guppy/Replacement is likely scum. However it's time to have a re-read regards everyone else.

I agree with this, they could bail out with the prediction of their lynch but i want to hear what the replacement have to say for his defense.

PS: my comp not yet fixed.

Mod Edit

Vote Count

Erotomachia- 3 (Battle Mage, daedalus, somestrangeflea)

Honary Hitchhiker- 2 (AlyG, ChocolateAttack)
somestrangeflea- 2 (cicero, Erotomachia)
Battle Mage- 2 (pwayne66, shaka!!)

Not voting (3): Gorgon, Honary Hitchhiker, theopor_COD

7 to lynch

[JordanA24]

Finding a replacement for daedalus

[theopor_COD]

Hi everyone. I'll read the thread and hopefully post later today.

Good luck, you cannot be held responsible for your predeccesors but IGMEOY.

[Erotomachia]

unvote

I almost feel the need to apologize for my predecessors...

I think CLA was a new player who attempted to use a poor metagame argument to make sense of things. Prof. Guppy was, quite frankly, rather suicidal. I don't think that you can take what he said seriously or as evidence of being scum. You ought to see the two as VIs rather than scum. They were really such easy targets.

The early bandwagon on AlyG is certainly interesting, but since it was mostly random I'm not sure how much we can draw from it. I was extremely surprised by orlowski's 5th vote on AlyG, but didn't find it particularly scummy because it's the sort of thing that should have garnered a lot of attention.

I think BM actually brought up a pretty good point earlier on. His play looks pretty typical. Cicero's reply struck me as a bit overdefensive. Pwayne seems strangely friendly with Cicero - a little trusting, almost.

There have been some concerns about players being inactive. But as I was reading the thread, SSF's seemed to be the worst. He rarely posted...until, of course, someone mentioned his name, whereupon he immediately replied. I think it's proof that he was actively lurking: following the game but not contributing. I don't, however, believe it to be a strong scumtell right now - just something to note.

Hmm, I realize I've got the most votes now, so I'll happily answer any questions...

[theopor_COD]

You cannot answer them unfortunately, which irritates the hell out of me.

[cicero]

For the record, I don't think guppy/CLA/eroto is scum. I dont think guppy gave enough of a crap to pretend to be something he wasn't. And I don't think the town should waste a vote on low hanging fruit like that. It will just end up with the town finding out he was a townie tomorrow and being no further ahead. Having practically BEEN guppy in my last (and first ever) game, I also don't think he should be lynched on day two. I think he was an annoying townie and I think there are real scum out there.

Incidentally, if I WAS scum I'd vote for him whether he was scum or town. It would either be an easy bus or an easy kill. I'm not planning on falling into that trap. Ferget it scummos, I have bigger fish to fry.

I may as well also say how much it bugs me that there are so many replacements going on in what is shaping up to be a great game. It's disrespectful to just disappear without warning.

[Gorgon]

Welcome to the game, Erotomachia. Stick around, ok?

Yet again (shock!) I agree with cicero. I don't think Erotomachia is the priority today. He starts off pretty well, and his predecessors were just a little too easy targets, IMO. We should definitely not overlook other possibilites. If Erotomachia ends up being revealed as town, I will be suspicious of the people who went after CLA and (especially) PG the hardest.

I like the fact that Erotomachia agrees with cicero and I in that SSF's active lurking was suspicious. Mind you, it could just be buddying up, seeing that cicero and I were the ones who defended PG, his predecessor.

Regarding cicero in general, I'm agreeing with him a lot (as you've no doubt noticed), and quite honestly find him mostly protown at the moment. I will be very annoyed should he turn out to be scum!

Right now, daedalus is my number one concern. Looking over the thread, I see that his last action was to put CLA at L-1, an action that I had specifically warned people about not doing. I hope he turns up soon, or gets replaced.

Also the following people need to express themselves:

AlyG - promised he'd post something later; hasn't followed up on that.
Battle Mage - I know he's on a path of self-exploration now, but he still needs to post something.
Honary Hitchiker - very much AWOL for way too long now. He replaced an AWOL player, and then goes AWOL himself, without posting anything at all! I (yet again) agree with cicero that the constant replacements and inactivity are annoying, and that people really should try to commit to the games they sign up for.

Vote: daedalus

, for pressure.

[Gorgon]

Double-post ftw.

It's actually quite tempting to vote AlyG instead of daedalus, as he has posted very little in this game, and has been active in his other games since he promised to post something here. As I've made clear before, I don't like this sort of behaviour very much.

So, I'll just

FoS: AlyG

[ChocolateAttack]

unvote

I think CLA was a new player who attempted to use a poor metagame argument to make sense of things. Prof. Guppy was, quite frankly, rather suicidal. I don't think that you can take what he said seriously or as evidence of being scum. You ought to see the two as VIs rather than scum. They were really such easy targets.

Again! in computer lab playing mafia.

anyway, im somewhat agree with your point but bail out in the middle of the game because under pressure is really "scum smell" to me so im a little unconfortable with that.

[cicero]

I'm very in favor of lynching all of you friggin' lurkers.

For your consideration:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &&start=25

I'm compelled by the argument made by some therein that lurking is always bad for the town. As far as I'm concerned it's time to start hanging people who are actively lurking. That includes strangeflea who stopped when he was caught, and AlyG as well who is doing it even now. There is no way we can know who is scum for sure. But it seems clear that we have a lurker problem and lurker's are bad for the town. AlyG, why are you lurking - especially given the long conversation we just had about you and flea. I have no interest in letting scum sit back while the town cannibalizes itself. You can forget it. The jig is up. So come on out and try something new or I'm going to do everything in my power to get you lynched.

[cicero]

I don't know who is or is not scum yet but here are my strategic placements for now. This would be the ranking of a smart townie at this point in my humble opinion And yes, I can see inconsistencies with my earlier opinions too - and NO it doesn't make me scummy. And yes, I reserve the right to change my mind based on your future posts.

A smart town:

Absolutely should NOT lynch:

cicero
Gorgon
pwayne66
Erotomachia

Probably shouldn't lunch

Battle Mage
Theopor COD
Shaka
Chocolate Attack


Should Consider lynching:
SomeStrangeFlea
AlyG


Consider going to their home to strangle personally:

Honorary Hitchiker
daedalus

------------------------

Newbie Question: How many scum are in this game again? is it 3 or 4?

[cicero]

EBWOP: lunch=lynch.

Now I'm hungry.

[theopor_COD]

Cicero's recent posts are bugging the hell out me. So much so I'm going to have a close look at him so far.

Lynching a lurker is not "good town" play, it's much better to get them to talk - get replaced whatever, discussion is good right? I'm baffled why Cicero and Gorgon are giving Eroto a free pass. I'm interested to see Eroto's take on it to be honest.

[somestrangeflea]

And yes, I reserve the right to change my mind based on your future posts.

The above is an acceptable viewpoint...

The below is not...

And yes, I can see inconsistencies with my earlier opinions too - and NO it doesn't make me scummy

Since when were you the sole judge of what is and isn't a scumtell? Especially regarding your own actions?

1. Your "strangle" list is just a list of people who have fallen inactive. I don't feel that this classes as lurking. Not only that, but I can simply remedy this by saying

Mod: Prod Daedalus

.
2. Your "should consider lynching" is just a list of people who have lurked at some point in the game. AlyG hasn't posted in 3 days, so I'm going to post

Mod: Prod AlyG

, and, apart from my lurking, you don't actually have anything on me.

Other than lurking, you have very little on anyone, TBH. Put all your points on your top suspects into a single post, and you may get a response addressing them

As for Eroto, I'm gonna

Unvote

, but I will be keeping a close eye on you. I have this theory that players who subtly refuse to answer questions directed at them are scum. Don't take this too heavily at the moment though. It's just a theory, and I'm quite tempted to just throw out everything PJ has said under the impression that it's all just total bullshit.

[somestrangeflea]

EDWOP:
PJ -> PG, obvobv

[Erotomachia]

I'm baffled why Cicero and Gorgon are giving Eroto a free pass. I'm interested to see Eroto's take on it to be honest.

Well, I'm a little surprised that they put me down as town so quickly. What I was trying to suggest in my previous post is that CLA and Prof. Guppy's play was so erratic that you can't draw many conclusions from it. I would certainly argue against it being a scum-tell. Unfortunately, though, I'd say it's just sort of a null-tell.

I find the suggestion that we should lynch people based on their activity level rather disturbing. Let's put pressure on them first. HH was prodded yesterday and Daedalus is being replaced, anyway.

[cicero]

And yes, I reserve the right to change my mind based on your future posts.

The above is an acceptable viewpoint...

The below is not...

And yes, I can see inconsistencies with my earlier opinions too - and NO it doesn't make me scummy

Since when were you the sole judge of what is and isn't a scumtell? Especially regarding your own actions?

1. Your "strangle" list is just a list of people who have fallen inactive. I don't feel that this classes as lurking. Not only that, but I can simply remedy this by saying

Mod: Prod Daedalus

.
2. Your "should consider lynching" is just a list of people who have lurked at some point in the game. AlyG hasn't posted in 3 days, so I'm going to post

Mod: Prod AlyG

, and, apart from my lurking, you don't actually have anything on me.

Other than lurking, you have very little on anyone, TBH. Put all your points on your top suspects into a single post, and you may get a response addressing them

As for Eroto, I'm gonna

Unvote

, but I will be keeping a close eye on you. I have this theory that players who subtly refuse to answer questions directed at them are scum. Don't take this too heavily at the moment though. It's just a theory, and I'm quite tempted to just throw out everything PJ has said under the impression that it's all just total bullshit.

First, to clarify - my strangle list IS just a list of inactive players. I didn't mean to suggest them as my top choices for a lynch. I was afraid someone might read it that way but I figured I'd give benefit of the doubt given the fact that I had vented my frustration on the abandoners earlier. I actually don't think we should lynch abandoners. Just replace them. My guess is (speaking Meta) that town abandons more than scum. And my guess is that scum actively lurks more than town. Ultimately, mafia seems to be a game where someone has to play odds. I'm not going to get frozen into WIFOM inaction.

Now - what do I "have on you". Well, I made a case already. But There aren't just scumtells in this game. There are Towntells. In mafia people fly blind. I don't have a lot of experience but I hardly expect you to show up with a bloody glove on and a knife (metaphorically speaking). Maybe it is naive of me but I choose to look at all the evidence available, not just scum tells. I look for townie tells. You aren't showing many compared to other players and at this point I don't believe for a second that you have your eye on me.

The reason I need to be inconsistent, as all townies often are, is because of continuing evidence. If I made a case and stuck to it like glue I'd look more and more like I had something to hide. I don't.

Rather, It would be unfair of me not to state that even though a theory I have about you implicates Theo that on the other hand theo has done some active investigating. Unlike you and your lurking omgussing ways.

Likewise, even though I have a theory about you that would put you at odds with AliG, I cannot just accuse you and ignore his behavior. As scummy as you looked for lurking, he now looks even scummier because he still hasn't gotten in the game after much discussion. If I ignored him that WOULD look scummy (in my opinion).

Suffice it to say that you have done nothing to convince me that my vote is on the wrong person so far, flea. But I'm not adamant about it by any stretch. To quote Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman, "I'm in tha dahk here!!!"

Hope that clears things up for you.

[Gorgon]

Erm yes, cicero's zealous anti-lurker stance seems rather over the top. For once, I do not agree with him. Voting lurkers to pressure them is one thing, but lynching them on general principle is quite another ... as much as I do dislike lurking, I cannot condone that.

I'm baffled why Cicero and Gorgon are giving Eroto a free pass.

Well, for my part, I'm just a sucker for bumbling newbies I guess - and it would seem so unfair to go after Eroto just because his predecessors messed up. I will keep an eye on him just like the rest of you - and I certainly don't see you guys jumping all over his first post, like you did with PG. Wonder why that is ... my guess is that because he (shock) actually expresses himself well and makes some good points. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, on his own terms. That's certainly not the same as giving him a free pass, so I feel you're slightly misrepresenting things here.

Well, I'm a little surprised that they put me down as town so quickly.

Again, not accurate, at least not where I'm concerned - as per what I have to say above. Find a quote where I put you down as definite town, please.

[somestrangeflea]

The reason I need to be inconsistent, as all townies often are, is because of continuing evidence.

That's fine, but that's not inconsistency, per se. Provided you can actually back up your points properly, and you don't switch within 2 posts from OBVTOWN to VOTE: XXXX, then "inconsistency" is fine.

[cicero]

Cicero's recent posts are bugging the hell out me. So much so I'm going to have a close look at him so far.

Lynching a lurker is not "good town" play, it's much better to get them to talk - get replaced whatever, discussion is good right? I'm baffled why Cicero and Gorgon are giving Eroto a free pass. I'm interested to see Eroto's take on it to be honest.

Lynching Lurkers

Heya. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate your point, but here's the way I see it. If we all get together to lynch a lurker (called a bandwagon) we will apply pressure. Pressure is what will make them talk. You get people to talk by applying pressure. If you vote and say "this is just a pressure vote" it minimises the pressure. You have to look (or appear) willing to follow through. That IS good town play. But thanks for making me spell that out. Making me spell it out is NOT really good town play by the way.

If they don't talk they are bad for town. Also if they start to talk reluctantly, you can't forget that they already tried an active lurking gambit. If you do that THEN you are giving them a free pass.
------------

Free pass for Eroto

This is a judgement call from my gut. I looked at Guppy's play and I think it is filled with false scumtells that are really the result of him being whiny and passive aggressive and inexperienced. When he said "the moderator knows better" and whatever, basically I believed him.

In any event, there are more than one scum in this game. Fine you have Eroto flagged. That's done. Now go look

harder

. I don't think lynching the obvious psycho newb on day one is good play for the town. I think it plays into scum hands. Hell I think maybe (and I stress maybe) it plays into scum hands even if he IS scum. I don't really know what info I would glean on day 2 from his lynch either way. So I'd rather turn our attention to other targets before deciding on such a route. Basically, my opinion is to ignore eroto for a while even if he IS scum. Which I honestly don't much think he is at this point. Though my mind could change mighty quick.

Note that my list wasn't: "Probable town" and "probable scum", it was who we should consider lynching and who we shouldn't. It's a subtle difference that adds a layer of strategy.

Questions unanswered

I'm not trying to sneak by without answering questions. I thought I answered them all. Please post any you have for me that you think I'm ignoring and I'll happily and promptly respond. I'll also look back over the posts to see if I missed any. My apologies.

[cicero]

The reason I need to be inconsistent, as all townies often are, is because of continuing evidence.

That's fine, but that's not inconsistency, per se. Provided you can actually back up your points properly, and you don't switch within 2 posts from OBVTOWN to VOTE: XXXX, then "inconsistency" is fine.

Yep. I can and will back up anything. and will show you the exact thought process. My flipflop on ALyG just has to do with the fact that after I made my guess he demonstrated that he was actively lurking as well. I wasn't willing to give him a free pass while I chased you.

[Battle Mage]

I'm sorry

Mod

, but i'm going to have to

request replacement

. I'll explain on AIM tomoz.

BM

[Gorgon]

In any event, there are more than one scum in this game. Fine you have Eroto flagged. That's done. Now go look harder. I don't think lynching the obvious psycho newb on day one is good play for the town. I think it plays into scum hands. Hell I think maybe (and I stress maybe) it plays into scum hands even if he IS scum. I don't really know what info I would glean on day 2 from his lynch either way. So I'd rather turn our attention to other targets before deciding on such a route. Basically, my opinion is to ignore eroto for a while even if he IS scum. Which I honestly don't much think he is at this point. Though my mind could change mighty quick.

Now this I agree with. Call us both clueless newbies if you want to - but I just agree.

Can you really say that what cicero is advocating here is an unwise course of action?

Heck, even if I knew cicero to be confirmed scum I'd still agree with this.

[shaka!!]

Now that sucks, my top suspect is being replaced.

Now again I will say why I think BM is the correct lynch for today.

A player, as experienced as BM, would not be so keen to jump on the boat and say that Cicero is scum over such little evidence, which I might add has been stretched way out of proportion. Also, as soon as PG, an obvious easy lynch target comes into the radar, that massive case he had on Cicero disappears and he wants GP for the lynch. On top of that he has shown to be very over defensive.

All of these, in my book, are big scum tells.

My vote remains on BM and this time I hope someone says something instead of just ignoring me.

[cicero]

Now that sucks, my top suspect is being replaced.

Now again I will say why I think BM is the correct lynch for today.

A player, as experienced as BM, would not be so keen to jump on the boat and say that Cicero is scum over such little evidence, which I might add has been stretched way out of proportion. Also, as soon as PG, an obvious easy lynch target comes into the radar, that massive case he had on Cicero disappears and he wants GP for the lynch. On top of that he has shown to be very over defensive.

All of these, in my book, are big scum tells.

My vote remains on BM and this time I hope someone says something instead of just ignoring me.

I'll say that I think it's good thinking. I'm not convinced but I will go re-read. You should note though that even though BM is "experienced" he does not appear to be universally regarded as "any good." He's over on the mafia message board with his own thread complaining about how bad he seems to be, and how everyone always finds him to be scum. I think having a few less eccentric replacements could help the town a lot.

I also think, playing meta again, that BM wasn't paying a lot of attention with this game. He's playing or moderating tons of stuff. So his focus won't be on this game very much. The minute he got some blowback for his insta-theory on me, he sulked and left. I don't know whether that makes him scum or just a volatile person with two many mafia games on the go, that probably figured that by subbing in to this game he was doing us all a favor and should have his hynie kissed accordingly. All that is to say that I'm not putting a lot of stock in his scum tells. But yeah - he's on my radar. I just think we can lynch better today. I may go read some of BM's other games to get a better read on his play style though. Hopefully his replacement will give us more to work with.