Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I only voted BTT yesterday, and a number of people haven't even posted since I made my case against him.

You don't have a case on me. You called my scum read on you bullshit and voted me. That's not a case.

I don't think BBT's total focus on Yos is pro-town. Yos, at least, is commenting on others.

That's untrue, I have commented/interacted with a number of players outside of Yos. Yos is my primary focus though, yeah.

I kind of agree with Shaddowez there, so I will be joining the Lowell wagon.

VOTE: Lowell

This feel town...too brazen for scum. Vote isn't 'fleshed out' enough.

His second post into the thread, he claimed BBT was town but took several posts to actually state why. Early game tells me, especially with there not being a lot of interaction or serious posts, it is hard to say someone is town with such confidence that Lowell did, on this occasion. I have never town read someone so early, even if some of there early posting shows town points.

Yet Yos had 5 town read by page 4 and you had no problem with that?

Kop

, it seems to me that you took Lowell's comment way out of context, leaving off entirely the part about it won't backfire.

This is a really good post.

I did have a quick glance over the Yos Vs BBT, I'd struggle to figure out who would be scum in that situation, because it feels town vs town. But I will go over the whole thing again in a few hours, once I've done all my bits and bobs.

Have you done this yet? What makes you think it's town vs town?

toffee the yos wagon is dead time for you to get on the ai wagon

It isn't. I'm not leaving my #1 scum read until I have to. You really need to read my latest post on Yos and rejoin this wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

I know Kmd pulled this up but I'm parroting it. I find it super strange that you're town reading someone when you don't even understand what you're town reading them for.

BBT

- Outside of the lists and disagreeing on how things works, what are you seeing that's scummy about Yos that it's worth having your vote parked there?

I actually want to smash my face into a brick wall. What you basically just said was 'Outside of your reasons for scum reading Yos, do you have any reason to believe he is scum'. What the fuck? You should go back to my latest pot about Yos, read it, then vote him.

In your 248 your scumpool was Lucky and Lowell. Has it changed?

This post just pinged me hard.

This feels like a roundabout way of asking ABR if he is scum reading you. That's scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree that BBT's early game was not so much of a tunnel. And tunneling is not necessarily scummy; plenty of townies do it, but I'd almost never call it pro-town.

You know what one of the worst things about this game is? Catching scum early and then letting them go because something else caught your eye. The amount of times I have been all over scum early game only to see another post catch my attention, change direction, end up lynching town and forgetting about my earlier scum read is unreal.

I refuse to keep making the same mistakes over and over. I admit a lot of my attention is focused on Yos, but I'm pretty fucking sure he is scum. I have other reads, I don't think it's too difficult to infer what they are from my posts that are not about Yos.

Yeah, abr is pretty obvtown at this point.

ABR pocketed? Check.
ABR joined the wagon I'm pushing? Check.
Keep on ABR's goodside by repeatedly stating how town he is. Check.

If I don't manage to lynch Yos today and either I, or ABR, get killed N1. Please fucking lynch this.

The list was literally the only real thing you attacked me for. That was your entire case. That is all you had. And now you're claiming I was "trying to get you to attack your list?"

Just wanna go over this one more time because I'm either not explaining myself well or people just are not reading closely enough (I know this happens a lot when there is a 1v1 going on.)

Correct, I attacked your reads-list. I attacked your reads-list for the timing of it and the purpose I believed was the reason for you posting it. You tried to change the reasoning behind my attack, you tried to say I was trying to discredit you and your reads. That's not what I was doing.

You continued to try, by asking leading questions, to get me to attack your reads or the list itself. When I didn't do either, you just started stating that's what I was attacking anyway.

Your posts were very calculated. You tried to steer me in a direction and manipulate my posts in a way in which you could attack me for it. That's not how town work, that's scum.

[Aneninen]

I kind of agree with Shaddowez there, so I will be joining the Lowell wagon.
VOTE: Lowell

This feel town...too brazen for scum. Vote isn't 'fleshed out' enough.

Explain.

toffee the yos wagon is dead time for you to get on the ai wagon

It isn't. I'm not leaving my #1 scum read until I have to. You really need to read my latest post on Yos and rejoin this wagon.

What counts as "have to"?

I simply can't imagine a scum asking that. (Although I haven't got the slightest idea what "proxy a vote" means.)

I know Kmd pulled this up but I'm parroting it. I find it super strange that you're town reading someone when you don't even understand what you're town reading them for.

I've already answered this.
I thought it was a kind of technical stuff (something like automatized voting or whatever). Then I said I'd revise my read on him. And as you can see in my previous post, I wasn't amused a couple of things he'd done recently.

In your 248 your scumpool was Lucky and Lowell. Has it changed?

This post just pinged me hard.
This feels like a roundabout way of asking ABR if he is scum reading you. That's scummy.

I f-cking don't care whether ABR scumreads me. I wanted (and want) to get a read on him, which is hard because of his posting style. I'd say he's town, but only because of his style, and someone pointed out that it would be insufficient reasoning to townread him, especially because I hadn't seen his scum-game yet.
Also, it's disappointing that he didn't answer that post. Had he done so, I could have seen whether his reads were/are consistent.
His recent push and vote on you is strange, too. (And as for this, it lacks consistency!) Yet again, I want to know (1) he's scumreading for real reasons (2) he's misreading you or (3) he's faking.

[Aneninen]

ABR pocketed? Check.
ABR joined the wagon I'm pushing? Check.
Keep on ABR's goodside by repeatedly stating how town he is. Check.

And your read on ABR is...?

If I don't manage to lynch Yos today and either I, or ABR, get killed N1. Please fucking lynch this.

EIIIIIIIIIRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!
Regardless of your alignment that's the worst kind of WIFOM.

Your posts were very calculated. You tried to steer me in a direction and manipulate my posts in a way in which you could attack me for it. That's not how town work, that's scum.

Calculated?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Basically, it looks like you're faking a super-obsessed-tunnel on me because you think that tunneling will make you look pro-town, even though you don't really seem to have any real reasons for voting me. If you were town you'd either be making a real argument against me or else you'd have changed targets by now.

Yeah, tunneling is always seen as pro town

I have made an argument, a very good argument, but people don't seem to be reading it closely enough.

This makes sense to me.

VOTE: BBT

This is a bad vote and you should feel bad for it.

Yeah, I'm with Yos on the most recent Yos/BBT exchange. BBT calling Yos' posts an attempt to discredit feels ridiculously manipulative. I like Yos' post 531 and think BBT should do that. It should be easy if he's so sure Yos is scum. If BBT is town though, I don't like Tex's sheep vote.

I didn't say Yos' posts were an attempt to discredit me - you're not reading closely enough. Yos is accusing ME of trying to DISCREDIT him, I'm saying he made a calculated attack on my posts and the direction he was trying to steer me in.

I've had a long-running assumption that BBT is town. But all right, I guess I'll reexamine that. 531 makes an interesting point. And I agree with AI's 543.

Oh, you will? How about you answer my question from page 5 or whatever it was?

I know for a fact that he takes other players' opinions into account, plays strategically, knows what lynches can and can't be done, etc.

He's only interested in engaging Yosarian with weak ass arguments. He looks like he's holding on to his positions tightly instead of evolving reads. I'm pretty sure he's scum, seen him do the same thing before.

This doesn't make sense. Let's talk about it some more.

Are you talking about town BBT or scum BBT here? Also, you didn't answer my question; I asked if you had ever seen me tunnel as town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Don't really recall. I could iso myself but that's bullshit. I think I just had an early read on him as playing townish. But I'm starting to buy what ABR is selling, I think. And it does fit with what scum might do: (1) jump in early, get ppl to say you're town; (2) do nothing else; (3) win. So as I said I'll reconsider.

(2) Do nothing...funniest shit I have read in this thread. Seriously.

BBT, I don't remember you being this tunnely...

I tunnel as either alignment.

Explain.

I just did. He hopped aboard the wagon very nonchalant. I don't think he would do that as scum, it just looks too obvious. Scum tend to flesh their votes out more so they look more legit when people revisit them after flips, I'm not seeing that from AI.

What counts as "have to"?

Either I'm in danger of being lynched or we're running out of time.

I f-cking don't care whether ABR scumreads me. I wanted (and want) to get a read on him, which is hard because of his posting style. I'd say he's town, but only because of his style, and someone pointed out that it would be insufficient reasoning to townread him, especially because I hadn't seen his scum-game yet.
Also, it's disappointing that he didn't answer that post. Had he done so, I could have seen whether his reads were/are consistent.
His recent push and vote on you is strange, too. (And as for this, it lacks consistency!) Yet again, I want to know (1) he's scumreading for real reasons (2) he's misreading you or (3) he's faking.

OK, I agree that ABR can be difficult to read (I'm pretty sure he has tricked me before) but I still don't like the way you phrased that post. I mean, if you were looking for consistency in his reads, why didn't you ask who he thought was scum on the wagon? Why provide him with his previous reads and thus give him a much lower chance of slipping up? It doesn't really make sense.

And your read on ABR is...?

I feel like he is town but I want to scum read him out of frustration. I have no problems admitting that I struggle to read ABR (as I do with most people who post one-liners a lot of the time) but it feels like he is town this game. I don't think he would go after me as scum.

Calculated?

Yeah, I have explained why. On numerous occasions.

[AlwaysInnocent]

If I get lynched, I want Roflcopter to reflect back on his tunneling and check what he missed because he was tunneling me. I think that there is at least one scum on my wagon.

He should also realize how easy it becomes for scum to jump on my wagon if he invites (no, pushes) everyone to do so. It makes it easy for scum to hide in the crowd while Roflcopter carries the responsibility of my lynch.

[AlwaysInnocent]

By the way, I find it extremely hard to read BBT. He seems scummy at times, but I feel that if he really is scum, he won't give himself away so easily. It will be hard to pin him down on something.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, abr is pretty obvtown at this point.

ABR pocketed? Check.
ABR joined the wagon I'm pushing? Check.
Keep on ABR's goodside by repeatedly stating how town he is. Check.

Yeah, this is terrible. Especially since it's factually wrong; when I called ABR obvtown, he was not on the wagon I was pushing, and in fact had just basically called me an idiot who was hurting the game by continuing to push your wagon. You're quoting post 509 here, and ABR didn't vote for you until 520, after you had finally stopped lurking and made some fresh posts.

I mean, do you disagree with my town read on ABR? Because it would be incredibly scummy for you to attack me for town reading ABR if you are also town reading ABR here. If you don't agree with me about ABR, then explain why you don't agree and I'd be glad to discuss it.

If I don't manage to lynch Yos today and either I, or ABR, get killed N1. Please fucking lynch this.

And you're still doing this no-content "lynch Yos just because" thing. It just looks like a fake tunnel.

Just wanna go over this one more time because I'm either not explaining myself well or people just are not reading closely enough (I know this happens a lot when there is a 1v1 going on.)

Correct, I attacked your reads-list. I attacked your reads-list for the timing of it and the purpose I believed was the reason for you posting it. You tried to change the reasoning behind my attack, you tried to say I was trying to discredit you and your reads. That's not what I was doing.

I speculated about the motives behind your attack on my reads-list, which is a little different then "changing the reasoning". If you are scum, then you probably have other motives for the things you do beyond the surface ones, and I was speculating about that.

In any case, that speculation wasn't terribly important at this point in the game; it'll be useful after you get lynched, assuming you flip scum, to help us find your buddies, but it wasn't the basis of my suspicion on you.

But your attack didn't make a lot of sense anyway. There's nothing wrong with having a bunch of weak town reads on page 4, and there's nothing wrong with sharing your reads with the rest of the town, and there's nothing wrong with doing it as a list instead of in some other way. Frankly, I don't even see how any of those things could be considered anti-town. I keep pointing this out, and you keep basically avoiding discussing it in any meaningful way, even though it is supposedly the whole basis for your read on me.

You continued to try, by asking leading questions, to get me to attack your reads or the list itself. When I didn't do either, you just started stating that's what I was attacking anyway.

Your posts were very calculated. You tried to steer me in a direction and manipulate my posts in a way in which you could attack me for it. That's not how town work, that's scum.

I'm trying to get you to either explain yourself "page 4" argument in a way that makes sense, or else to get you to interact with the rest of the game that's happened since then in some meaningful way, because then I might be able to get a better read on your alignment. I keep giving you chances to show us your thoughts and to make sense, and you just keep flatly refusing to do so.

If you really are just going to keep refusing to interact with the game, then we're just going to have to assume you're scum. If you want to start playing, and either explain yourself in a way that makes more sense or maybe try to create a read on something that happened after page 4, then maybe you can convince people that you're actually not scum.

[texcat]

BBT, I just don't understand how you can be so confident in your Yos read, given the slim amount of evidence. It smells off to me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, this is terrible. Especially since it's factually wrong; when I called ABR obvtown, he was not on the wagon I was pushing, and in fact had just basically called me an idiot who was hurting the game by continuing to push your wagon. You're quoting post 509 here, and ABR didn't vote for you until 520, after you had finally stopped lurking and made some fresh posts.

I didn't say he was, that was mostly tongue in cheek. The main point is, and I'm sure you understood this, you have pocketed ABR. He is no threat to you today and I think that would be an aim for you if you were scum. I couldn't understand your initial town read on him, when you explained it, I showed you that you were incorrect for town reading him for them reasons. Did you reevaluate? No. You kept him as town and started producing different reasons for your read. It all felt off, it's not what I would expect town to do.

I mean, do you disagree with my town read on ABR? Because it would be incredibly scummy for you to attack me for town reading ABR if you are also town reading ABR here. If you don't agree with me about ABR, then explain why you don't agree and I'd be glad to discuss it.

I'm pretty sure you will have read a previous post of mine in which I state my read on ABR. I can attack someone's reasoning for town reading someone if I don't think they are legit; even if I'm town reading that same person. What you just said is a load of nonsense.

I speculated about the motives behind your attack on my reads-list, which is a little different then "changing the reasoning". If you are scum, then you probably have other motives for the things you do beyond the surface ones, and I was speculating about that.

You didn't need to speculate, I outright told you what my reasons were.

In any case, that speculation wasn't terribly important at this point in the game; it'll be useful after you get lynched, assuming you flip scum, to help us find your buddies, but it wasn't the basis of my suspicion on you.

Of course it was. I attacked you for reasoning A, B and C. You then tried to spin that attack into reasons D, E and F which is obviously not the same thing. If I had gone along with what you said, you then would have accused me of trying to discredit you and your reads (which was not my reasoning).

But your attack didn't make a lot of sense anyway. There's nothing wrong with having a bunch of weak town reads on page 4, and there's nothing wrong with sharing your reads with the rest of the town, and there's nothing wrong with doing it as a list instead of in some other way. Frankly, I don't even see how any of those things could be considered anti-town. I keep pointing this out, and you keep basically avoiding discussing it in any meaningful way, even though it is supposedly the whole basis for your read on me.

Correct, there is nothing wrong with having a bunch of weak town reads on page 4. There is EVERYTHING wrong with sharing them, there is no need to. Your reads will change within 2 pages at that point of the game and then your old reads become redundant very quickly. The only reasoning to share reads at that stage is to look 'pro-town'. You look like you have genuine reads and are trying to solve the game. It's pretty much summed up by LAMIST.

BBT, I just don't understand how you can be so confident in your Yos read, given the slim amount of evidence. It smells off to me.

I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm always 100% confident. Even if I'm only 50/50 on someone, I'm 100% confident. There is no point in tip-toeing around people, subtly is not my forte. If something pings me, I push it and I push it hard, then I gauge my read further based on their reaction to my pushing.

Yos' reaction to my push wasn't great. He was twisting my attack into something it wasn't, his reasoning for his read on ABR was inconsistent, he went straight on the defensive (which isn't always scummy, but in this case it is, because of how long it took him to come around to his 'read'), he AtE hugely (when he started talking about how he always gets mislynched) and then this changed into a sudden confidence that he would not be getting lynched. Everything about his reaction is pinging me and that has strengthened my read on him considerably.

[Lucky2u]

well I've finally caught up. I forgot the reason I don't join non-micro games is because the pace can be trying for me...

anyway, I'll leave it short and sweet for now, because my head hurts and if I put too much effort into this post my nose will bleed. BBT vs Yos is a waste of time that is still happening, it's town vs town. For those keeping score, yes I am now town reading yos. The best thing to come out of this conversation is that it's pretty obvious both is showing the right amount of paranoia and scum hunting toward what I'm sure they think are scum reads on each other.

I'm confused how people express town reads on ABR when he posts so little content (I know this is the pot calling the kettle black, but I'm not asking you to town read me). At best he should be null.

Anen's post felt like he was most interested in spreading doubt. I'm giving him a scum lean.

Texcat, we haven't had a chance to interact yet. You started to question AI for a bit then dropped it awhile back. What do you think of AI? For the record, my vote is staying where it is on him.

I think with the holidays over I should have a chance at being more active in this game. If I can't start contributing regularly, I'll replace out to give town a shot.

[AlwaysInnocent]

he AtE hugely (when he started talking about how he always gets mislynched) and then this changed into a sudden confidence that he would not be getting lynched.

Yes, that was clearly a contradiction.

But how it is an appeal to emotion? It is an appeal to meta, not emotion IMO.

[Kmd4390]

Prod dodge. Probably won't post content today or tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

His AtE (appeal to emotion) is where he starts shouting about how he always gets mislynched and life is so unfair to him (disclaimer - he didn't say the last part).

He was basically all like why are people voting me? I'm being so pro town, what is going on? I'm trying so hard and getting voted and I always get mislynched. Staaahhhp guys. (disclaimer - he didn't say the last part)

[Yosarian2]

I didn't say he was, that was mostly tongue in cheek. The main point is, and I'm sure you understood this, you have pocketed ABR. He is no threat to you today and I think that would be an aim for you if you were scum.
I couldn't understand your initial town read on him, when you explained it, I showed you that you were incorrect for town reading him for them reasons. Did you reevaluate? No. You kept him as town and started producing different reasons for your read. It all felt off, it's not what I would expect town to do.

Every time you start doing this, it feels like you're trying to be manipulative scum and trying to put two town people at odds with each other. If my town read of ABR in post 509 makes sense to you, then you trying to invent a scum motive for it really just looks like you're trying to be manipulative, especally when you use emotionally manipulative language like "in your pocket".

Now, if you want me to explain yet again why i had a weak town read on abr on my page 4 list, I can do that, but it just seems bizzare when you are simultaniously claiming that you "are not attacking my reads on my page 4 list". I mean, it was an early game weak town read, based on a good vibe I got from one of his posts. When I have to explain it it's obviously going to sound vague and fuzzy, because that's how early game gut reads work.

I also feel like you're trying to manipulate me into explaining my early game town read on ABR over and over again, just so you can claim I'm buddying him.

You didn't need to speculate, I outright told you what my reasons were.

Trying to figure ot the difference between what someone *says* his motives are, and what his actions indicate about his motives, is pretty much the definition of scumhunting.

If I'm suspecting you of being scum, I'm not going to just take you at your word, obviously. It's kind of weird that you are acting like you don't get this.

Especially since even while you're claiming you're "not attacking me for the reads on my list, just the timing of my list", you are literally doing the exact opposite in terms of ABR at the exact same time.

Correct, there is nothing wrong with having a bunch of weak town reads on page 4. There is EVERYTHING wrong with sharing them, there is no need to. Your reads will change within 2 pages at that point of the game and then your old reads become redundant very quickly.

They are likely to change, and I said do at the time. But that doesn't at all mean that there is anything wrong with sharing them. If it helps me figure out who I should he suspecting, and it helps other townies start to get a better read on the game, then it's useful.

The only reasoning to share reads at that stage is to look 'pro-town'.

The exact opposite is true. There are many reasons to do it, and the only reason to NOT do it is that it's unconventional and it might get you attacked, even though it's not actually anti-town in any way. But that's ok too; how people choose to attack me makes it easier to read them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Every time you start doing this, it feels like you're trying to be manipulative scum and trying to put two town people at odds with each other. If my town read of ABR in post 509 makes sense to you, then you trying to invent a scum motive for it really just looks like you're trying to be manipulative, especally when you use emotionally manipulative language like "in your pocket".

I'm going to lose my fucking shit with you in a minute.

I did not say your read made sense to me.

Read;

I'm pretty sure you will have read a previous post of mine in which I state my read on ABR. I can attack someone's reasoning for town reading someone

if I don't think they are legit

; even if I'm town reading that same person. What you just said is a load of nonsense.

You keep twisting everything I say. How the fuck is nobody seeing what you're doing?

Now, if you want me to explain yet again why i had a weak town read on abr on my page 4 list, I can do that, but it just seems bizzare when you are simultaniously claiming that you "are not attacking my reads on my page 4 list". I mean, it was an early game weak town read, based on a good vibe I got from one of his posts. When I have to explain it it's obviously going to sound vague and fuzzy, because that's how early game gut reads work.

I also feel like you're trying to manipulate me into explaining my early game town read on ABR over and over again, just so you can claim I'm buddying him.

What a load of shit, if your reasoning for your read didn't keep changing I would have to keep questioning it. I very clearly stated I questioned how you arrived at some of your reads; this is not discrediting. Was I discrediting your reads list? No. Am I discrediting your read on ABR? Yeah I am, because I don't believe it is legit but this was not my original problem and this is exactly the route you have been trying to take me down and I feel dumb for letting you take me down it.

Especially since even while you're claiming you're "not attacking me for the reads on my list, just the timing of my list", you are literally doing the exact opposite in terms of ABR at the exact same time.

Yeah, I fell for your trap. Well fucking done, you've frustrated me and I've allowed you to steer the conversation where you have been wanting it to go since we started. This is explained above and I've had enough now.

[Yosarian2]

I'm going to lose my fucking shit with you in a minute.

Sure, when you have nothing else to do, getting irrationally angry is a solid scum strategy, it can trick people into town reading you, and it's easy to fake.

I did not say your read made sense to me.[/size] Read;

I'm pretty sure you will have read a previous post of mine in which I state my read on ABR. I can attack someone's reasoning for town reading someone if I don't think they are legit; even if I'm town reading that same person. What you just said is a load of nonsense.

You keep twisting everything I say. How the fuck is nobody seeing what you're doing?

Forget the page 4 list for a minute. Do you think my town read of ABR as of post 509 make sense, or not? It seems like you keep trying to have it both ways.

I mean, I didn't give any reasoning at all in post 509 (frankly, I thought ABR was being obv-town enough that I didn't have to explain it) so you were not "attacking my reasoning". Either you agree with me that at that point in time ABR looked town, or you don't. "I think ABR looks town in post 509 but Yos is scummy for thinking that" makes no sense at all.

Now, if you want me to explain yet again why i had a weak town read on abr on my page 4 list, I can do that, but it just seems bizzare when you are simultaniously claiming that you "are not attacking my reads on my page 4 list". I mean, it was an early game weak town read, based on a good vibe I got from one of his posts. When I have to explain it it's obviously going to sound vague and fuzzy, because that's how early game gut reads work.

I also feel like you're trying to manipulate me into explaining my early game town read on ABR over and over again, just so you can claim I'm buddying him.

What a load of shit, if your reasoning for your read didn't keep changing I would have to keep questioning it. I very clearly stated I questioned how you arrived at some of your reads; this is not discrediting. Was I discrediting your reads list? No. Am I discrediting your read on ABR? Yeah I am, because I don't believe it is legit but this was not my original problem and this is exactly the route you have been trying to take me down and I feel dumb for letting you take me down it.

My reasoning never changed, although I tried to explain it in several different ways. I'm pretty sure I just went through all this in painfully great detail while discussing it with KMD, so I don't really feel like going through it again, but if there is something you honestly don't understand I am willing to.

But this whole line of reasoning is just so painful. I included ABR in my list of weak town tells, because I had a town-ish gut read on one of his posts. I really don't think my page 4 gut read on ABR at this point is terribly germane to anything now, honestly, and I don't get why so many people have been making me explain this over and over and over again.

It's not like I was singling out ABR either; I read the whole game, and made a list of people I had a weak town read on, which was about half the people in the game at the time. So what? Why do you care so much that ABR happened to be on the list? If ABR flipped scum, maybe you could legitimately use my early town-gut read on him to attack me, but he's done a lot of town-ish things since then that make me think my early town gut read was very likely correct.

Especially since even while you're claiming you're "not attacking me for the reads on my list, just the timing of my list", you are literally doing the exact opposite in terms of ABR at the exact same time.

Yeah, I fell for your trap. Well fucking done, you've frustrated me and I've allowed you to steer the conversation where you have been wanting it to go since we started. This is explained above and I've had enough now.

What.

Seriously.

What.

Ok, I give up. You're just scum. I'm done giving you second and third and fourth chances.

[Lucky2u]

You guys are officially in an isolated vacuum.

[Yosarian2]

You guys are officially in an isolated vacuum.

Actually, if you've read the last few pages, it sounds like most people in the game now agree with me that BBT is delibratly faking a tunnel on me, because his reasons really don't make any sense and aren't at all consistent with either each other or with his play in general.

[roflcopter]

welp i'm a lot closer to a toffee vote but i still want ai dead the most

[Albert B. Rampage]

BBT was in good standing and then he just ruined himself. Like a heroin addict, he threw everything away for his Yosarian vote and now his stock price and credibility are at rock bottom. If he had any shred of town in him, he would have listened to me and the others and backed off this ridiculous nonsensical tunnel.

[roflcopter]

ai / bbt scumteam actually makes a ton of sense

[Zar]

Day 1, Votecount 15

AlwaysInnocent (5): Kmd4390, Lucky2u, Aneninen, roflcopter, Lowell

BlueBloodedToffee (3): Yosarian2, Albert B. Rampage, texcat
Lowell (3): shaddowez, AlwaysInnocent, Kop
Yosarian2 (1): BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (1):

acryon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Saturday January 9, 2016 11:30 AM  New York Time. (GMT-5)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-01-09 11:30:00)

Albert B. Rampage is V/LA until Monday

acryon is V/LA until Monday

shaddowez is V/LA until Monday

Kmd4390 is V/LA until Tuesday