Mini 1752: Back to December (Game Over)

[Elyse]

VOTE: OceanWind

Poor Marquis

[Elyse]

Orrrrrrrrr

You specifically didn't kill Llama so you could use that excuse to vote him

VOTE: MattP

[Elyse]

My plan is foiled

Knew it!

K one scum down

[Elyse]

Omg I just realized the flavor

THIS IS MY SWALLOWING MY PRIDE STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU SAYING I'M SORRY FOR THAT NIIIIIIIIIIGHT. AND I GO BACK TO DECEMBERRRRRRRRRR

[Elyse]

I think I'm done with Matt for now. I want to address this post:

Orrrrrrrrr

You specifically didn't kill Llama so you could use that excuse to vote him

VOTE: MattP

Elyse, scum trying to frame someone with the NK usually aren't going to push the logic themselves. They wait for Town to pick up on it and then agree with the Townie who says it. If I thought anyone was trying to frame Llama, I'd probably wait to see who agreed with the first one to post the logic.

Yeah I don't think it's a slam dunk or anything, just trying to bring a new perspective to the table.

I don't think AJ's paragraph was that bad. It was a reach but Alch has been a little awkward.

VOTE: SupremeOverlord

I agree with Ocean here.

[Elyse]

It means that Marquis read you correctly last game. I'm guessing you were scum and he caught you.

[Elyse]

I said poor marquis because I have a history of playing with him and wanted to play with him in this game. I was actually sad he died N1.

I didn't like SO's post because the question he asked Llama was pointless. It makes it look like he's being inquisitive and scumhunting when he's not.

[Elyse]

Also just curious how did you search through all my posts for the word poor?

[Elyse]

When I'm scum I don't say anything because I'm scared shitless. Look up my meta of the last year. It's not WIFOMy, it's like an actual serious phobia, I wouldn't be posting content if I were scum

I don't like this either. You seem too defensive.

[Elyse]

Because you can easily use self-meta to make yourself look town if you're aware of it.

[Elyse]

Scum tend to be more defensive because they have something to hide.

[Elyse]

Matt is a strong player I wouldn't expect to be so defensive.

[Elyse]

What post of mine is a lack of knowledge? The one where I called Matt over defensive?

[Elyse]

^Scum post

[Elyse]

He took basically no stances, basically gave Matt instructions on how to avoid being scumread by him, didn't address my point and tried to turn it around on me instead, tip-toes around a TKoE scumread by calling him "odd", says he "could believe" Rask is newbtown (means nothing). Just everything about that was scummy.

[Elyse]

I said your question was pointless and only served to make it look like you were scumhunting. Instead of explaining why you asked the question or its relevance, you said I wasn't scumhunting either. It makes me believe I was right.

[Elyse]

I've played with Matt before and I haven't seen him be defensive.

I also thought the second part was rhetorical. Yes I have seen town be too defensive. It varies on a player by player basis. For Matt it's scummy to me.

[Elyse]

When I'm scum I don't say anything because I'm scared shitless. Look up my meta of the last year. It's not WIFOMy, it's like an actual serious phobia, I wouldn't be posting content if I were scum

I thought this post was very defensive. It seemed like he had this defense ready and brought it out unnecessarily early, especially since no one was really calling him scum for any specific reason.

I've played with him here:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61784

[Elyse]

Ready to lynch Supreme Overlord

[Elyse]

Matt, I'm going to respond to SO later but just wanted to post that so people knew I still thought he was scum.

As far as AJ goes, I could see him as scum. A lot of his responses seem stilted and awkward to me and he could be buddying me.

[Elyse]

On the [Elyse] wagon, Supreme Overlord is the primary offender of 'your vote is seriously outdated'.

Well, I haven't yet seen a target I'd prefer to switch my vote to, so I'll summarise why I'm on Elyse.

TL;DR

Elyse's play consists of miscellaneous posts about nothing, a sheeping vote with a (in my opinion) weak justification after the fact, and a whole bunch of short posts about Matt's defensiveness, mostly rehashing the same thing over and over.

That's better than most of this playerlist atm and also pretty inaccurate. My vote on you is completely justified and my posts regarding Matt's defensiveness were in response to ckd. I don't really have any interest in pursuing that avenue further.

I didn't particularly like 'Poor Marquis' - though it would be fairer to say it caused Elyse to catch my attention rather than I thought her scummy for it. I didn't think it was worth researching the way petroleumjelly did.

This is what Matt thinks is "fluid scumhunting" but I say is "a bunch of meaningless fluff." He comes to no conclusion, doesn't take a stance on it, and then Matt gives him a townread for it. This is a textbook scum move. Also, Marquis is one of my favorite people to play with and I haven't played with him in like a year so yes I said poor Marquis.

Similarly, a random post on the flavour in the middle of Matt and Alchemist's argument isn't alignment-indicative, but it was weird (could have derailed, but as it turns out it didn't).

See what I said before about not taking stances and posting something meaningless.

Supreme's fluff in Post 33 rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't think AJ's paragraph was that bad. It was a reach but Alch has been a little awkward.

VOTE: SupremeOverlord

I agree with Ocean here.

This is the pair of posts I voted Elyse for. As I said then, Ocean didn't really make any argument for Elyse to agree with. She also doesn't explain why she picked 'fluff' (presumably - that's Ocean's word, not hers) over 'a reach' and 'a little awkward'.

Um, Ocean said that your post rubbed him the wrong way. It also rubbed me the wrong way, so yes, there was something for me to agree with. Posting fluff is a lot scummier than reaching on like page 2.

It means that Marquis read you correctly last game. I'm guessing you were scum and he caught you.

This one could go either way; it's clarifying between curiouskarmadog and MattP, but it's posting without any content from Elyse.

Again, no stances, meaningless content, etc.

Posts 73, 78, 83, 92 and 104 are all one-liners talking about the same thing - Matt being defensive with his meta. There is no additional content through here.

That's because I was specifically asked. I don't even care about Matt much today. I can save him for later. I want you my dearie.

He took basically no stances, basically gave Matt instructions on how to avoid being scumread by him, didn't address my point and tried to turn it around on me instead, tip-toes around a TKoE scumread by calling him "odd", says he "could believe" Rask is newbtown (means nothing). Just everything about that was scummy.

Obviously I disagree with this. I don't know how 'post content we can judge you on' is 'instructions on how to avoid being scumread' - for everyone, if they post town content I'll think they're town, if they post scummy content I'll think they're scum. In fact, what it's more saying that Matt has locked himself into a promise to keep posting content, and he can be held accountable to that.

I said basically twice in one sentence. I'm such a basic white girl. Anyway, you told him to stop being focused on meta and post content, which are directions on how to get him to stop scumreading you.

I addressed the point I missed in a previous post - I haven't heard back from Elyse about that.

You admitted that it was fluffy/silly...

He took basically no stances, basically gave Matt instructions on how to avoid being scumread by him, didn't address my point and tried to turn it around on me instead, tip-toes around a TKoE scumread by calling him "odd", says he "could believe" Rask is newbtown (means nothing). Just everything about that was scummy.

I mean arguing over semantics with your opinions here is an exercise in uselessness but your 2nd, 4th and 5th points aren't alignment indicative, Supreme is just posting all his thoughts in the thread, they don't look particularly malicious or directed. His recent posting he is outlining his scumhunting thought processes in a pretty logical way and demonstrating stances he's taken. Considering how much content he just posted it's silly you're just coming into the thread and pretty much disregarding it by repeating you just wanting to lynch him.

See I just disagree with this completely. Two is scummy if you are scum together, four is scummy because he doesn't take a stance, fifth is just pointing out meaningless fluff - in other words all of his posts which you are for some reason townreading him for.

Elyse, what benefit do I gain from buddying you? You'd be the easiest lynch to dump on if I was scum because frankly buddying you wouldn't really get me that far.

Idk you'd look good when I flip town? I'm always wary of people who seem to be townreading me early on.

[Elyse]

In that scenario (explaining how to remove a scumread) I'm thinking both SO and Matt are scum.

[Elyse]

I read it as "I'm scumreading you and I don't want to be. Do this so I don't have to anymore."

[Elyse]

I think OceanWind's 175 is pretty fantastic. The AJ wagon gives me good feelings and I rarely feel that way about early day 1 wagons. It seems town driven.

@TKoE and AJ
Why call out rask's vote and not pj's?

VOTE: Aj the Epic

L-1

Mostly for reasons already provided by others more articulate than myself and stilted, calculated play. Pings my gut hard.

[Elyse]

The wagon speed in concurrence with AJ's posts seems natural. I don't think any of the jumps were such except maybe Rask.

You and Matt are scummy individually and have ties, so yes that's 1-2-3 scum. I'm just that good.

[Elyse]

I will catch up with this game tomorrow.

[Elyse]

Well fuck me in the ass.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Rask

This seems a little forced and I don't like the immediate hope onto Rask, considering your only mention of him in your ISO is asking why he hopped onto the Aj wagon.

Well I have seen scum claim doctor many times. But without a counter claim we don't lynch Aj. If he really is a doc he will die tonight.

Yup.

The posts petroleumjelly brought up are a really good find. Beyond that, AJ doesn't seem to have the passion of a townie about to be lynched, or a desire to put his reads out there, and the analysis of his wagon looked very mechanical.

I do agree with this, though.

I don't want to lynch Aj because lynching a doc without a CC is reckless.

@Ocean
I meant that Aj's scummy posts and votes on the wagon seem in line with one another. It wasn't a quick wagon based on one post or something, but a natural forming wagon. That's part of the reason I hopped on. It seemed town-driven to me and I could understand everyone's votes.

I didn't have a problem with pj's vote because he doesn't seem like the kind of player to me to vote and never explain why. It was an empty vote though so I was curious as to why people were calling out Rask and not him.

As far as Matt's early push on Aj, I think it's legitimate. It doesn't affect my scumread on either because I don't look for associations that cancel each other out until someone flips. If anything Matt looks a little better from that.

I agreed with your thoughts on Aj in that post.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alchemist

I didn't like his unvote and vote on Rask. I also think it's scummy that he immediately believed Aj's claim. I had no problem with the unvote itself because I also would have unvoted, but the "fuck me in the ass" and vote on Rask are icky.

Nothing he's done has seemed very town to me either and his townread on him is poorly justified.

[Elyse]

Just the way you unvoted seemed that you believed his claim without a doubt. It reads to me as you knew he was town and when he claimed PR, you had to unvote and did so in an over the top way.

I'd expect something more along the lines of "unvote pending a CC".

[Elyse]

I think OW was asking why you are townreading me and SO

[Elyse]

I think Alchemist is the best lynch for today. I'm not feeling Rask scum anymore and I feel like him getting run up is because he's new. And I don't want to lynch an un CC'd doc.

[Elyse]

SO isn't going to be lynched today and deadline is in 3 days. What are your thoughts on Aj and Alchemist

[Elyse]

I forgot about Rask

[Elyse]

Llama isn't getting lynched today.

Move your vote.

TKoE is a priority for tomorrow. I've hated his recent posts. Asking for a claim from Alch so early is making me question my vote there. He seems to want as many claims out in the open as possible.

[Elyse]

This is a mess.

We need to consolidate on a wagon.

[Elyse]

I don't like the Llama wagon much.

I think TKoE is scum.

VOTE: TKoE

Sorry I had no time today to post content and am only just checking in.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Aj the Epic

[Elyse]

Also ty scum for killing pj because I was paranoid he could be scum

[Elyse]

If you flip town Rask eats rope.

[Elyse]

Your post trying to turn what Rask did into something scummy is awful btw. It makes sense for him to ask those questions and soft if he's unsure as town.

[Elyse]

@OW
Why is Alchemist town?

[Elyse]

@OW
Why is Alchemist town?

Play around TKoE lynch. Llamafluff was nearly hammered but he stayed to switch. That's the sort of the thing scum find hard to do because if you nearly have a mislynch set in stone, you don't want to give it away. It was at a time where he would know that if he switched, TKoE was really going to get lynched.

That and I thought his reason for townreading me was pretty accurate and the timing as well.

Do you disagree or you just wanted to get my reasoning out there?

I thought he was scummy early in the day and I think his latest post was terribly scummy. I'm willing to lynch him for that alone.

I wouldn't put that much stock into not hammering Llama because anyone who hammered him at that point would be putting themselves in a shitty position.

[Elyse]

I thought ckd was town before because his reads changed naturally but I'm not sold on that read. He's mostly just there for me. Could be scum, could not be. Sorry that's a shitty read. :/

[Elyse]

@OW
Why is Alchemist town?

Play around TKoE lynch. Llamafluff was nearly hammered but he stayed to switch. That's the sort of the thing scum find hard to do because if you nearly have a mislynch set in stone, you don't want to give it away. It was at a time where he would know that if he switched, TKoE was really going to get lynched.

That and I thought his reason for townreading me was pretty accurate and the timing as well.

Do you disagree or you just wanted to get my reasoning out there?

I thought he was scummy early in the day and I think his latest post was terribly scummy. I'm willing to lynch him for that alone.

I wouldn't put that much stock into not hammering Llama because anyone who hammered him at that point would be putting themselves in a shitty position.

Why is me hammering llama different than me hammering tkoe?

What do you mean? I was talking about Alchemist.

I thought ckd was town before because his reads changed naturally but I'm not sold on that read. He's mostly just there for me. Could be scum, could not be. Sorry that's a shitty read. :/

Explain exactly which read is shitty and why.

I was saying that my read on you is shitty.

[Elyse]

@SO
You're a mild scumread. My number three after Aj and Alchemist. Then ckd. Everyone else is town.

[Elyse]

That was easy.

Thanks for modding, Equinox. Enjoyable game.