UNI MUM Mafia (Day 3, Stay Gold Pony)

[Learned Hand]

There ARE NO GOOD GUYS AND BAD GUYS. Mafia is a GAME! It's fun because we can draw the lines, ooh look, town = good guy, scum = bad guy. It's all a show, and we go about playing our parts, hunting and arguing and debating and lynching and stuff.

REALITY ISN'T LIKE THAT. When you realize that, a hell of a lot of things in your life will get better.

On a more game related note, if you are coming down firmly on the side of Itle&Shiro = town, I think you're going to be very, very surprised about Itle. That reaction was bad, and you can't see it. I think you won't be surprised about Elbirn, because you're already morphing me into scum white knighting him or something to explain away criticism of your play.

Why was the reaction bad? Mere allegations are nothing.

Yes, the world is that black and white. Either you're helping town, or you're not. We may not know it yet, but every post serves one function or the other. You can stop bitching about me being right and present your case now. Maybe we both are. I doubt it though.

[Cerberus v666]

Valid points re: Elbirn.

Titus, you don't have to believe me, I've done my job, so when you get sharky shot tomorrow because you refused to actually believe the person who got the gun (yeah, remember, Errant said it was a multishot regular vig shot) and the one person in this game who would go asking the mod a shitload of theoretical questions to see how he would handle claimed roles if they actually existed in the game and sent certain actions to him, then it's all on you for being stubborn.

Pedit: it's super weak EAP. I disliked the inconsistency he displayed with regards to EP, and he pushed EP to shoot sharky over TN. That's about it from me. RP had his own reasons apparently.

[RolePlay25]

Like, do I want your vote? Honestly, I wish I could say no. I wish I could throw it in your face and laugh. I really do. But I need your vote, because I need 9 people to get a scum lynch.

I won't get Sharky's vote. He's floating in la la land as the post-restricted (now unrestricted) unlimited inventor who confirmed with the mod he can create desperado shots when we now have TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE (EP & Cerberus) saying they confirmed with the mod he can't. I guess you could confirm with the mod, but oh wait,

you're not listening to Cerberus

. See, that's the sort of thing that's toxic. Two people saying what Sharky said is not true is EXTREMELY alignment indicative.

I don't know about muffin, maybe he'll see reason. I have no great faith in that or EAP.

Mastin seriously never listens to me. She's a tree. Maybe I can sell hiplop. Maybe the hydra is scum. We shall see.

KC is whatever. Don't care.

That's 6 votes I'm down if I want a lynch. I thought I was down Cerberus, but nope, he's here. So yeah, I need your vote. What are you lacking to think Itle is scum? Because I will point out (and it's easily verifiable) he spent the last scum game plonking at Diamond for two days because Diamond was "acting scummy" and here he's plonked at Jeanne and Diamond. So if it's meta like Muffin... err... don't think so.

[Jeanne11]

Well, isn't that nice? But there is a little problem there......

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63644

[Learned Hand]

Any evidence itepip is scum.

KC is conftown and I hope she'd lead but if not I will.

And both those people are scum, then fine. If Sharky's lying about the Desperado, he probably isn't town and the best play is to shoot him.

If Cerb presents facts rather than woah is me shit, I will listen. Right now, he's told me to go fish in his ISO with wrong evidence regarding Klingon.

I don't go fish. I provide evidence and discuss it.

[Cerberus v666]

Roleplay: I'm not saying what sharky said isn't true. I'm saying the mod told me changing someone's role is bastard and the only restriction you could place on a shot is numbe of shots in response to the theoretical of whether or not someone could invent a desperado gun to someone. I asked what the default number would be if the number of shots was unspecified, and he said it would depend on the wording. Sharky said he invented a compulsive day 1 desperado gun. And gave it to EP. if you remove the restrictions the mod told me he wouldn't allow, and look at the wording....he invented a "gun" and gave it to EP, regardless of what he was trying to do. A gun, not a 1x vig shot. So the wording implies that it's unlimited. And the mods communication implies that it would be unrestricted.

And yes, that could reasonably happen without the mod being bastard or Sharky lying, since sharky just asked "can I do x", not if I did x, and they did y, what would happen? How about z?.

Pedit: I didn't tell you to go fish about Klingon, I don't care about klingon. I told you to look for the post which I just expanded upon above.

[itlepip]

I agree that Muffin's meta thing was bad, 1 of the games I dropped out of is ongoing so I can't talk about it but the other one was stopped cause nothing was happening. I don't flake games as much as I can, and it isn't alignment indicative. The game that was stopped I was town in.

RP there were times that game that I did think that Diamond was scum. Remember that that was a fire and ice game so trying to use that to find my scum meta is iffy at best. I would be much more interested in learning why Diamond is so confTown for you that anyone thinking that he is scum is super scummy.

[Learned Hand]

@Cerb, Poor wording. I am not inclined to go fish through an ISO with known inaccuracies.

Nothing in that goobledygook precludes giving a desperado gun.

Doesn't change the fact that Sharky should be shot next either way.

[Cerberus v666]

Really? The mod saying you can't change someone's role in response to a question about giving someone a desperado gun, and saying number of shots if unspecified is dependent upon wording, doesn't sound like a desperado shot can't be given?

[itlepip]

@Cerb, Poor wording. I am not inclined to go fish through an ISO with known inaccuracies.

Nothing in that goobledygook precludes giving a desperado gun.

Doesn't change the fact that Sharky should be shot next either way.

@Dramonic, can Sharky make someone a compulsive day desperado?

easy way to solve that mess.

[Learned Hand]

Really? The mod saying you can't change someone's role in response to a question about giving someone a desperado gun, and saying number of shots if unspecified is dependent upon wording, doesn't sound like a desperado shot can't be given?

It sounds like he can use the phrasing to invent a desperado gun.

Giving someone a vig doesn't change their role. Desperado would be the same.

[Learned Hand]

@Cerb, Poor wording. I am not inclined to go fish through an ISO with known inaccuracies.

Nothing in that goobledygook precludes giving a desperado gun.

Doesn't change the fact that Sharky should be shot next either way.

@Dramonic, can Sharky make someone a compulsive day desperado?

easy way to solve that mess.

Can't use Sharky's name.

Can someone invent a desperado gun use?

[Jeanne11]

Well, I must say that Titus is kinda full of hot air or something.......

[zMuffinMan]

Given Itle's response to the votes, I really don't want to (his response was very 'yah, you got me, but I'll go through the motions') but at least he gives a fuck.

eh, not seeing this. elaborate

post 2030, RolePlay25"]Well fuck that. You're dead wrong.[/quote]
so disregard what i said about the flaking, it was a catalyst in my initial read on him but it wasn't a core point

i've yet to see anyone say why what itlepip has done this game is more likely to come from scum than town

sir berus made a point but then didn't really talk about it when i asked him why it was more likely scum than town

[zMuffinMan]

Also.I think I already helped town remove scum, because ya know, EP was going to shoot fucking sharky at your recommendation until i talked him out of it AND brought up tn again as a viable option, but ya know, I'd TOTALLY do that as scum. Like, absofuckinglutely.

i am unsure if this is actually a thing and i should probably go back and check but i was under the impression that EP was all set to shoot sharky and you were fine with it until i started pointing out it probably wasn't the best play

[zMuffinMan]

he pushed EP to shoot sharky over TN

virtually the entire game did this

[zMuffinMan]

I don't know about muffin, maybe he'll see reason

what reason?

[3dicerolling]

Let's be 100% certain.

@Dramonic - Can a person with a role action such as this, "During the Night, you are able to dream about something, and it just may come true! Each Night, submit an action to me in "dream format" (as if you were dreaming about the action)", dream a role such as this, "A Desperado is a role that targets a player during the day in-thread to perform the following action on. If the target is scum (mafia), then their target is killed. If not, they die in a valiant "desperado" attempt. Desperado is a role that targets a player during the day in-thread to perform the following action on. If the target is scum (mafia), then their target is killed. If not, they die in a valiant "desperado" attempt."

[zMuffinMan]

I will point out (and it's easily verifiable) he spent the last scum game plonking at Diamond for two days because Diamond was "acting scummy" and here he's plonked at Jeanne and Diamond

"plonking"?

for someone who complained about tn (ab)using one game of meta against jeanne, this is awful

[itlepip]

Hmmm.

I started my "low-hanging fruit" with Sharky, TN and KC. One was right, one was wrong, and I feel one way or another Sharky is going to die because of today. It ain't hard for anyone reading me to know what I'd bet on for that flip.

I have other theories, I'd like to see more content from Shiro, but yeah, you can push me this way.

Vote: Itlepip

I really liked his reaction test with his fake vote way back. I had a strong town read on Davsto and he hasn't really done for me to change that. I understand the whole thing that is happening with Davsto kinda defending himself, but it doesn't feel that productive. If Davsto has a reason for trying to last an extra day and was scum, he would have claimed some 1 shot useful PR thing. I'm not sure there is a convincing narrative for what scumDavsto is doing but I understand what townDavsto is doing to I accept townDavsto right now.

Mmmm, that's fair.

Cerberus votes! My heart nearly fails.

See RP, you've now reached the point I was at a few days ago. All the people I'd normally want to lynch have, well, shown that there's merit to keeping them alive.

Pedit: dunno, never played with either one, but sharky hasn't been wholly useless. Shiro has been though. I think.

Why is itlepip not someone you want to lynch, rp, given your agreement about what someone, idk who, had to say about his thoughts regarding DS?

Well he's #2 on my list for a reason. But he actually appears to be scumhunting, some. Hmmm.

Actually his ISO is pretty depressing. He did vote KC with me, but why not mislynch a townie who was doing actual nothing (same as with why not defend a townie doing actual nothing?)

IMO Davsto has been super towny, and I expect there to be at least 1 scum between Mass and RP, and Diamond is just sheeping his buddy. Obviously Davsto has to be killed before lylo, but using a vigi shot is way more effective and I haven't seen a good reason why using the vigi shot is bad.

Itle, define "super towny" for me please.

Rp, according to your posts I'm basically getting lynched here by POE. I was second on your magical scum list, I address your question, and suddenly Cerb votes me and then full sail away wee here comes the Pip wagon.

You are voting me it seems like because you think I am pushing a mislynch wagon on Diamond. So first off that Diamond townread is incredibly weak - "I like his VT claim so him doing literally nothing else this game is towny also pushing to kill a confirmed innocent town is a towny play". Look I know that Diamond is generally a scummy player, but his play this game is incredibly different than the other game I saw him in where he did lurk out all of day 1 and refused to give reads and never vote and he was town that game. I was giving him a townread early for actually participating in the game early, but his recent stuff added to trying to push a wagon on the only 100% confirmed town in the game is dumb. The big problem with him with this push is he still has not acknowledged that pushing a confirmed town was bad he unvoted after the mod confirmed but then kept on saying that Klingon was scummy. He eventually left the Kling wagon and joined the Davsto wagon for this reason

Ok, I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who thought that. He has done nothing to help the pace of the game, whatsoever, and is just reiterating what others have said unless he's making crummy wagons.

VOTE: Davsto

Which was just sheeping Mass Flop's honestly pretty bad reasoning for voting Davsto. Look at Diamond's ISO and control f Davsto, the only times Diamond even acknowledges Davsto's existence is when Davsto is voting for Diamond. He mentions Davsto in post 400, and then 1300 posts later he finally talks to him again when Davsto votes Diamond for pushing an innocent translator.

[zMuffinMan]

@rp

wait, you're using a confirmed multiball open game (where scum are going to be actively scum hunting anyway) to say that this is similar to his scum meta

maybe if this game turns out to be multiball, you might have a point, but yeah, you don't get to talk about people abusing meta (which i wasn't even doing, but hey, since you're claiming i was, fuck your shit)

[3dicerolling]

Hey itlepip, you should vote somewhere more productive.

[zMuffinMan]

I agree that Muffin's meta thing was bad, 1 of the games I dropped out of is ongoing so I can't talk about it but the other one was stopped cause nothing was happening. I don't flake games as much as I can, and it isn't alignment indicative. The game that was stopped I was town in.

*shrug* i never checked what ended up happening if those games are now finished, it's just something i noticed about a week ago and thought it might mean something

it's not such a big point that it was molding my read, just a side point that i thought might have some validity (even if it actually doesn't)

that said, i don't mind the fact that you're actively trying to discredit the point yourself

[itlepip]

Hey itlepip, you should vote somewhere more productive.

so I ask where and you are going to say itlepip?

[3dicerolling]

Hey itlepip, you should vote somewhere more productive.

so I ask where and you are going to say itlepip?

That would be funny, but no.