Newbie 1677 (Game Over)

[MochaMan]

@tojam & Natsu

If you wouldn't mind, what kind of experience do you have with mafia, in general?

[Natsu]

I already mentioned that I'm new. I played one other game on another site that operated very differently, and this was nearly a decade ago. I didn't even take it seriously there. It was kind of hard to keep track of with 150 people, so I remember myself semi-lurking around until I got lynched halfway through for not posting enough.

[Ruku]

I already mentioned that I'm new. I played one other game on another site that operated very differently, and this was nearly a decade ago. I didn't even take it seriously there. It was kind of hard to keep track of with 150 people, so I remember myself semi-lurking around until I got lynched halfway through for not posting enough.

150 people in a single game? Holy shit.

[Natsu]

Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?

[mykonian]

@
RNG Spat out a 6!

So.... VOTE: Natsu

Ruku, sorry for the misspelling above.
Just curious, would you have voted yourself if your RNG landed on 8?

Good catch, sort of.

I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.

vote Ruku

Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?

Nope. usually the "big" games are 25-30p. I know of only a couple of games that go well beyond that number.


If you can't see scum yet, and you don't know what to talk about, you could break your head about the proposed claiming of targets (pretending you are a powerrole) tomorrow morning, and if you feel like doing that, why/why not. Theory discussion isn't everything, but at least it's a discussion of sorts!

[hawkleader3]

Ok, should we get to work on finding the scum now we've all made random votes.

Unvote

The point of RVS usually leads to some type of pressure. Seeing how other players react to wagons on them at the start of game is generally how you tell if someone is town or scum. The quickness and reasons for people jumping on and off these one or two wagons also gives us good reads. Then it becomes reads and counter reads and reactions and so forth, so not voting doesn't help this cause, but I'll just assume you did this because you don't want any kind of questioning for your votes, because it leads to reactions and if you, scum, do not imitate a town reaction correctly, it's off to the block you go. This seems like a swiss cheese reason for voting, but it's enough to switch my vote in page two of the game

VOTE: tojam2

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.1

tojam2 (2):

Natsu, hawkleader3

Random Canadian (1):

eventi

mykonian (1):

MochaMan

Natsu (1):

Ruku

Ruku (1):

mykonian

No Vote (3):

jachawk, Random Canadian, tojam2

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Thursday, January 21, at 8:00 AM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-01-21 08:00:00).

[MochaMan]

Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?

Jeez. How long do those games usually last? I could imagine a whole year.

[MochaMan]

@mod: mykonian has his vote on Ruku

[MochaMan]

Good catch, sort of.

I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.

vote Ruku

Seems a bit opportunistic, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot to go off on at page 1. Using an rng for rvs seems like something I'd do too.
Since my vote is already on you I might as well keep it there.

[Natsu]

Yeah, lol. I think the mafia count was around 30 players. Are those mega-games not a thing here?

Jeez. How long do those games usually last? I could imagine a whole year.

I think it was several months. I managed to find it and browse through it a little. I actually had significantly less posts than I remembered during it, and most people barely posted at all. One thing that was kind of cool about it though was how the mod gave clues towards the mafia members. For instance, the mafia night kills would be elaborate paragraphs of text, detailing the death scene. And the mod took a small piece of the mafia member's username, avatar, profile information, or signature and twisted it into a clue of some sort. There was also an initial mayor-voting segment where people had to try to pick a mayor who would gain extra powers, and the mafia wanted to get their own man into the position of course.

[jachawk]

Hello All,
Good Day to all of you
This is my first time playing Mafia online, please go easy on me

My hawk sense tells me something is off about this other "hawk". So here goes my vote
VOTE: hawkleader3

[mykonian]

Good catch, sort of.

I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.

vote Ruku

Seems a bit opportunistic, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot to go off on at page 1. Using an rng for rvs seems like something I'd do too.

And now you know why you shouldn't!

The RVS stage is about making silly reasons then people responding to your silly reasons and that somehow spirals out of control till you have real stuff to discuss. How is anyone going to talk about your silly reasons if it was "well the dice said so". It used to be more prevalent that people did role dice, but this is the reason why it has pretty much died out now. The RNG vote gave town no benefit, makes some sense from a scum motivation, it became a scumtell of sorts.

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

[MochaMan]

Good catch, sort of.

I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.

vote Ruku

Seems a bit opportunistic, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot to go off on at page 1. Using an rng for rvs seems like something I'd do too.

And now you know why you shouldn't!

The RVS stage is about making silly reasons then people responding to your silly reasons and that somehow spirals out of control till you have real stuff to discuss. How is anyone going to talk about your silly reasons if it was "well the dice said so". It used to be more prevalent that people did roll dice, but this is the reason why it has pretty much died out now. The RNG vote gave town no benefit, makes some sense from a scum motivation, it became a scumtell of sorts.

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

Hm. Well did it really? I mean "Because rng said so" might not give the town any benefit, but I can't see it being scum motivated.
And clearly with the discussion we're having now is helping to push the game forward. (but that's beside the point)

To say that it's harder to reply to "Because rng said so" than it is to "I blame Canada!!" would be false imo.
The only scum motivation (I can see from this) is to delay actual discussion.

Can you honestly say that Ruku had a scum intent to delay the game with his "It was rng" despite him being more active compared to some of the other players?
Maybe the one we shouldn't let get away is you!

But I have no reason not to believe you, so I'll keep what you said in mind for future games.

[MochaMan]

It used to be more prevalent that people did roll dice

Wait did people who did roll dice turn out to be mafia more often than not?

[mykonian]

It used to be more prevalent that people did roll dice

Wait did people who did roll dice turn out to be mafia more often than not?

I don't have a clue I never counted. I can see why people thought that though.

On the other hand, for an early game tell, I'm sure it's good enough. You only need a couple of percent more likelyhood of it being correct to make it worthwile.

but I can't see it being scum motivated.

It's a mindset. Town "should" be less likely to be worried at the start of the game. Townies are mostly a bit wandering how to get information and stumble around a bit. Scum otoh just got a role pm that tells them to hide and it would not do to get suspected too early on. And if you can't think of a silly reason that surely wouldn't get you suspected, better point somewhere else. It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

So I don't think it's scum intent. I don't think ruku made the concious choice to go with RNG if he's scum to do something devious with it. I think if ruku is scum it could have been the path of least resistance.

[MochaMan]

It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

Fair enough, you make a good point. I'll still be keeping an eye on you Mr.IC.

On the other hand:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jachawk
There should be plenty of material to comment on and not just make a random vote. Come out and play

[tojam2]

@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!

Vote:Natsu

@MochaMan This is my 3rd game on this site, however I have had some impeccable rounds of TIMV where I as detective have correctly chosen who to lynch 4/5 times, I have played over 150 rounds through all 3 classes I think.

[jachawk]

It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

Fair enough, you make a good point. I'll still be keeping an eye on you Mr.IC.

On the other hand:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jachawk
There should be plenty of material to comment on and not just make a random vote. Come out and play

Fair enough

One thing I wanted to point out is that

It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

Fair enough, you make a good point. I'll still be keeping an eye on you Mr.IC.

On the other hand:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jachawk
There should be plenty of material to comment on and not just make a random vote. Come out and play

Fair enough

[Natsu]

@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!

First of all, when I used the term "uninformed," I meant that to apply to all of us in that we are all too uninformed to handle a "post-RVS stage of the game." What I meant with that sentence was that we aren't past the RVS stage at that point, and accelerating past it would just leave us in a confused state with a need to go back to square one.

Second of all, in what way did I jump on a bandwagon? I was literally the first person to vote for you. I could understand this point if Ruku came out roasting you for it, and then subsequently voted on you. But he kind of gave you a slap on the wrist while I used it to form my very first RVS vote.

Finally, I want to acknowledge that you do bring up a good point about my perceived experience, even though it was born out of a misinterpretation. I might seem informed and experienced while at the same time not knowing a basic abbreviation or something. I'm just as new to this game as you guys, but I have really soaked in a lot of information as I waited for this game to start. I think it is pretty obvious that I would look experienced in some areas and inexperienced in others. Most of what I've learned so far was how people in newbie threads react to self votes, some of the more basic abbreviations/acronyms, and of course the basic wiki strategy. If it looks suspicious, like an alt account or something, just know that I've read through about 5 other newbie games.

To all the new people: How many games have you read through?

[jachawk]

@Natsu : I have not read through any game so far, but seems like a good idea

One thing I wanted to point out is that mykonian seems to be a bit too eager to lynch ruku. I am not really convinced that using a RNG suggests scum intent, certainly not enough to lynch somebody.

I sense a fair bit of conviction when Mykonian says

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

I think only scum would have enough information to act with such confidence. Even though using an RNG does not give the town much, it is not right to expect much from a random vote and use it as a reason to vote somebody.

Though mykonian puts up a good argument later, I feel he acted with opportunistic scum intent earlier.

So,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

[MochaMan]

How many games have you read through?

I've skimmed over quite a few games to get a handle of how some of the people that are in my games play and how to play myself.
I can't give you an exact number here, but probably somewhere around 20.

[MochaMan]

@Natsu : I have not read through any game so far, but seems like a good idea

One thing I wanted to point out is that mykonian seems to be a bit too eager to lynch ruku. I am not really convinced that using a RNG suggests scum intent, certainly not enough to lynch somebody.

I sense a fair bit of conviction when Mykonian says

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

I think only scum would have enough information to act with such confidence. Even though using an RNG does not give the town much, it is not right to expect much from a random vote and use it as a reason to vote somebody.

Though mykonian puts up a good argument later, I feel he acted with opportunistic scum intent earlier.

So,
UNVOTE:
VOTE: mykonian

I don't know if anyone votes on page 2 with intent for a lynch (at least I don't). I think it's mostly for getting reactions.

[MochaMan]

@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!

Vote:Natsu

@MochaMan This is my 3rd game on this site, however I have had some impeccable rounds of TIMV where I as detective have correctly chosen who to lynch 4/5 times, I have played over 150 rounds through all 3 classes I think.

TIMV?

I can't tell if this OMGUS is indicative of a noob mindset or a scum mindset, but I'm certain it's one of the two.

For the time being, UNVOTE:

[Ruku]

Good catch, sort of.

I like Ruku for scum, for different reasons. RVS is already noncommital, but Ruku even then shifts responsibility away from him for his vote to a rng generator. That's a worrying habit to have.

vote Ruku

Seems a bit opportunistic, but at the same time there isn't a whole lot to go off on at page 1. Using an rng for rvs seems like something I'd do too.

And now you know why you shouldn't!

The RVS stage is about making silly reasons then people responding to your silly reasons and that somehow spirals out of control till you have real stuff to discuss. How is anyone going to talk about your silly reasons if it was "well the dice said so". It used to be more prevalent that people did role dice, but this is the reason why it has pretty much died out now. The RNG vote gave town no benefit, makes some sense from a scum motivation, it became a scumtell of sorts.

We shouldn't let ruku get away with murder here!

It used to be more prevalent that people did roll dice

Wait did people who did roll dice turn out to be mafia more often than not?

I don't have a clue I never counted. I can see why people thought that though.

On the other hand, for an early game tell, I'm sure it's good enough. You only need a couple of percent more likelyhood of it being correct to make it worthwile.

but I can't see it being scum motivated.

It's a mindset. Town "should" be less likely to be worried at the start of the game. Townies are mostly a bit wandering how to get information and stumble around a bit. Scum otoh just got a role pm that tells them to hide and it would not do to get suspected too early on. And if you can't think of a silly reason that surely wouldn't get you suspected, better point somewhere else. It's a bit better than just a habit for the scum's side. And again, we don't need it to be a 100% tell. 51% will do.

So I don't think it's scum intent. I don't think ruku made the concious choice to go with RNG if he's scum to do something devious with it. I think if ruku is scum it could have been the path of least resistance.

Several people have posted defense statements regarding this but I'll post my own thoughts also.

It seems in this situation my 'silly' reason was to use a RNG generator, however I disagree that people won't be able to talk about it. Id say it's causes the most discussion out of all the RVS votes, which certainly makes it the most successful for moving the game forward thus benefiting the town.

Also, although I wasn't aware that it's somewhat of a scum tell on here - I was aware that it was different to the norm and I hadn't seen anyone do it on the games I've read. I was completely conscious that it was going to cause discussion. Which is exactly what I was after. It's certainly not the path of least resistance, doing something different would be the last thing I'd want to do if I was Mafia.

@Natsu: Yes, you are too poorly uninformed, so read the wiki!!! And I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all, yes Natsu, I'm pointing the finger at you, you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle' and claim I'm trying to skip the RVS, how do you even know what that means if you're not informed well enough, I've been playing since before Christmas and know less than you!!

Vote:Natsu

@MochaMan This is my 3rd game on this site, however I have had some impeccable rounds of TIMV where I as detective have correctly chosen who to lynch 4/5 times, I have played over 150 rounds through all 3 classes I think.

I wasn't happy with his previous post about finishing the RVS stage without getting much info out of it - and I really don't like this. It seems a very personal post, talking about him getting killed and the OMGUS against Natsu. This doesn't feel like a post from someone with a town mindset.

Could you explain the lines;

"and I don't want to waste the first day getting killed by the scum trying to fool you all"
"you literally jumped on a bandwagon against me when you are 'too uninformed to handle'"

You did try and skip the RVS from what I can see. The claims from Natsu were not baseless.

Why did you turn against Natsu instead of me?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tojam2

Maybe a bit early for reads but i'm sure we can get some discussion from it;

I like MochaMan for town. As I was reading through the new posts, I make notes on things I wish to comment on and numerous times I found the exact same points listed by him. Which tells me he's thinking like town. Seems to be trying to pushing the game forward.

I like Natsu for town-lean, for the same reasons as above. I like his comments both on the self RNG and on tojam's RVS skip post.