Newbie 1675: Resolution Mafia - GAME OVER!

[AlwaysInnocent]

I have another scum candidate in mind. Someone I didn't scumread before.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Village Idiot.

Obviously it does not mean that the person is an idiot, but in the game they have for various reasons taken on that role for appearing overly scummy, while being in fact town.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Anyway. Consider the game solved.

[Radical Rat]

Village Idiot.

Obviously it does not mean that the person is an idiot, but in the game they have for various reasons taken on that role for appearing overly scummy, while being in fact town.

Y'know that actually explains a lot regarding the near instantaneous formation of this wagon.

P. Edit: Solved on Day 1? Would you mind sharing with the rest of the class?

[AlwaysInnocent]

I will when you are all ready for the truth.

[Radical Rat]

I hope you do that by the end of the day, because someone who claims to have "solved the game" is doubtless going to die tonight.

[Drixx]

That might be the most bizarre back and forth I've ever seen. You realize he's saying you're scum, right Radical Rat?

[AlwaysInnocent]

That might be the most bizarre back and forth I've ever seen. You realize he's saying you're scum, right Radical Rat?

No. I think he's town.

[AlwaysInnocent]

Read List 1.2

{AlwaysInnocent}

{KickAssAndGiggle, Radical Rat}

{Drixx}

{pignash}

{Bellaphant, Accountant}

{Nictherat, Christopher}

So the scum team is: Nictherat and Christopher.

You can thank me after the game!

[Radical Rat]

That might be the most bizarre back and forth I've ever seen. You realize he's saying you're scum, right Radical Rat?

Setting aside the fact that he wasn't, I'd still like for him to come out and say it.

@AI
Nic and Chris, huh? I can see a case being made in either of them individually, but what about their interaction makes you say they're working together?

[AlwaysInnocent]

They are just forced to be a scum team by PoE.

[Drixx]

I'm sorry ... I totally mixed up Nictherat and Radical Rat.

I'd be super interested in how you got there via PoE on day one. I like to think I'm fairly good at this game but I frankly don't see it.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Anyway. Consider the game solved.

Well, I'll freely admit that I don't see anything from anyone that would give me the fortitude to say I've solved this game on D1, so if you have, you are obviously the unholy scum-sniffing champion of the internet!

While we (or at least I) wait with glorious anticipation for you to decide we're ready for the truth, I will publicly um and aah about pignash. I like his last few posts, and a quick ISO tells me that he's not been much less verbal than Christopher, or even Bellaphant.

To unvote or not to unvote, that is the question. (Although if I do, get me a fleece because I'll be sheeping from now on...)

Still thinking.

PEdit: Oooh, you ninja'd me! Interesting theory, I will re-read the thread and see if I like it.

[Bellaphant]

POE on day one is terrible, especially as newbies now have day talk for scum and we can't really look at associative tells the same way (it's a learning curve for me, that one).

AI has jumped from one of my scummiest reads to one of my town reads. However, I don't think Christopher is conf!scum yet by any means.

[Radical Rat]

Alright, so let's go the other way around.
What, specifically, has made you think that everyone else is Town?

[Drixx]

I'm really curious to see what AI has cooking here.

[Accountant]

I don't like information lynches at all. The problem with information lynches is that a town flip is much less informative than a scum flip. Information is something that you get anyway by lynching the most scummy player, but it should not be used to push a lynch.

It is also easy for scum to push for an information lynch. If asked why they lynched town, then they can say "information". Information about what? About who? About them? No, they will say. They were honest townies wanting some information, they will say. What's wrong with that? It is too convenient, that is what's wrong with it.

We are not lynching pignash purely for information - he is also a solid lynch based on scumminess alone. He is not, however, the most scummy(again, that would be kosc/nic).

AND the Amished tell a couple posts later?

What on earth is the Amished tell and why is it relevant? From what I understand, the moment a tell becomes popular enough to have a name, scum inevitably adjust their meta to avoid giving the tell.

Also, re: hill climbing alogrithms to find scum, I spend a lot of time on the #lesswrong IRC channel so I know what you're talking about. I'm interested to see how this pans out, and if it works I might adopt it for future games.

pignash vs AI

I would reconsider my vote if someone did something scummy but everyone is doing a pretty good job so far.

this is untrue

Also, on a personal note, I play this game for fun. I could play angry birds or some shit in my free time at work, but I do this instead. I don't need a lecture while I'm here.

this screams of a frustrated player to me. I'm not sure if it's town frustrated that he's being attacked or scum frustrated for the same reason.

I checked some of your other games in which you were much more active. In those games you were town.

What about the games where he was scum?

nictherat

Well Accountant seems to be going for a semi logical thought pattern instead of a standard WIFOM when they are either defending themselves of going on the offensive. In context, it seems to flow on from what others are saying and redirects attention to what we do and do not know. However, these small facts just end up sending the conversation in circles. When read in isolation, Accountant just seems to be rewording everything and not providing anything new, thus the scummy read from me.

Are you accusing me of not making any original points? Because I think I have. My attack on Kosc, my analysis of the KAAG vs Drixx shindig, my participation in the pignash debate and so on.

radicalrat

I don't know, why did you bring that up at all if you didn't think it was a possibility?

I brought that up as an example of something that definitely wouldn't happen and thus we should not fear that it would.

I didn't say it was lynch-worthy. I said it was suspicious.

Why is having filler suspicious? Why would scum be more likely to do it than town?

Perhaps so. But I don't want to base a read on it just yet.

The point about Drixx waiting for me to change his opinion to suit mine is a valid one, but you argued that it's invalidated because of meta. Now that I've proven that your meta isn't relevant, why isn't it re-validated in your eyes?

Mafia thrives at Night. PRs are our way to counter that. When we lose a PR, the numbers shift in our favor, but the power balance shifts to the Mafia.

No. PR for mafia is a worthy trade. The power balance will not shift to the mafia, because the mafia's control over the day will slip.

I'd like to think it wouldn't work, but I could easily see a scum trying to use that to slip away from suspicion.

He could try, but he wouldn't succeed. In fact, I hope he tries; that'll make him easier to spot and kill.

Kosc's replacement has arrived and is posting. We have a week left in the day, so why give up on your "top choice?"

This is actually a good question. The thing is, I don't think nic is going to be lynched over pig(ie. I would be wasting my vote if I were to vote nic), and the difference between them in terms of scumminess is currently not that large. Thus, it's more fruitful in my eyes to go for pig over nic.

AI

Guys, I have a pretty good idea that Nictherat is scum. I think that Pignash might have been telling the truth that he had no idea what was going on.

Whoops! Maybe I spoke too quickly in response to Radical Rat. Looks like the terrible Kosc slot is once again a viable lynch. ALL ABOARD THE NIC TRAIN!

VOTE: Nictherat

Drixx

I'm really curious to see what AI has cooking here.

yes. He has some big brass balls(and has jumped from scumlean to solid town in my view).

[KickAssAndGiggle]

So the scum team is: Nictherat and Christopher.

I didn't read the whole thread, just Christopher's ISO and Kosc/NicTheRats.

Christopher

Only thing here is the question about No Lynch, but I'm on the "It's a purely newb question" train.

He hasn't actually posted much. His only interaction with the other slot was to ask NTR to read Bella after NTR's first post.

Conclusion:

Not really convinced. I can't POE myself: I don't lean town on enough people for that.

Kosc/NTR

OK, maybe I'm slightly more convinced here. Kosc was quite defensive about his lack of posting, especially compared to pignash. And NTR's first post seems like he's having a fish for the PRs:

This may be a bit of a Noob question, but is it appropriate now to start thinking about what our TPR should try and do tonight?

If you know that asking a question is Noob...and you'll be told "It's Noob"...why ask.

Conclusion:

It's a theory. I could see myself voting this wagon.


UNVOTE: pignash

I'll be spending the rest of D1 sheeping. (And one way or another, I'll cast a vote today (real day), provided it's not a hammer)

[Accountant]

Why do people keep convincing themselves that they "know" whether or not Christopher's question is noob? Am I surrounded by mind readers?

[Accountant]

KAAG you were willing to vote pig for pressure, why not vote nic for same

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1.8

Nictherat

(2): AlwaysInnocent, Accountant

Accountant

(2): Radical Rat, Nictherat

pignash

(1): Christopher

Bellaphant

(1): Drixx

Not Voting

(3): Bellaphant, KickAssAndGiggle, pignash

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.


Deadline: January 20, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2016-01-19 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[AlwaysInnocent]

and has jumped from scumlean to solid town in my view

I thought you were townreading me already?

[Drixx]

@Accountant - Didn't I ask if you spent time on lesswrong earlier in the game? I totally feel like I saw you say something that made me pretty sure you were quite familiar with the site.

As far as the Amished tell goes ... the thing is; it's not in the wiki. It has a name but it's a bit tongue-in-cheek. It's called that because there was a player named Amished and apparently he replaced into games a lot (which is a super high utility thing to do on this site; good replacements rescue games from apathy), but he drew scum repeatedly, AND he would replace into slots that were being scum read and try to defend the actions of the prior player(s) on the slot when he replaced into scum slots. The problem is that it's literally impossible to defend the thoughts/actions of a prior player because the replacement isn't that person.

That's why when I replace into games I just don't pay any attention to the status of the slot when I get it. It's all about MY play.

Anyway ... the tell is remarkably accurate, and generally people don't know what it means. It took me a long time to find out what it was after it was first brought up in a game I was playing in.

[Christopher]

=AI #228

VOTE: Pignash

How about now? Does anyone look scummy now?

=AI #230

You tell me what my point is.

=AI 232

What does it take to make you have a stance on something or someone?

=Pignash 233

I have a stance in this game currently.

=AI 234

UNVOTE: Pignash

I don't want anyone to hammer, though. I thought you were at L-3 when I voted you, but I couldn't admit that right away since I wanted to get something out of you first. However, that seems to be a wasted effort.

=AI 235

VOTE: Nictherat

Pignash, what do you think about this vote?

=Pignash 238

UNVOTE: AI

You go in the town pile now too. I think the quick unvote points towards option 2.

Pedit: I'm alright with that vote especially in light of his clarification on why I was making good points (which I admit I haven't this game yet.)

Pedit2: Not to my knowledge, Nic. What do you mean?

=AI 245

Guys, I have a pretty good idea that Nictherat is scum. I think that Pignash might have been telling the truth that he had no idea what was going on.

=Christopher 246

Quoting AI: "Guys, I have a pretty good idea that Nictherat is scum. I think that Pignash might have been telling the truth that he had no idea what was going on.”

Care to elaborate why you now read Pignash as not-scum after he unvotes you?

=AI 247

The explanation is in the post you are quoting.

=AI 248

I think Pignash is the VI in this game, which makes him an easy scapegoat. Even I considered lynching him, but something about his reactions made me believe that he was being set up.

=AI 252

Anyway. Consider the game solved.

=AI 254

I will when you are all ready for the truth.

Ok. I get it, AI. You’re clearly firing around wildly with the intention of getting a rise out of people on d1. I question, though, whether your motives are simply to seek input, move the conversation forward, and look for a slip or whether you’re trying to gain cover for Pignash to stop the wagon on him.

Your skepticism of Pignash was, initially, similar to ours: Pignash’s lack of content in his posts, plus his inadequate defense of the wagon on him, is suspicious. As has been pointed out previously, maybe this is a sign that Pignash was over-burdened with his previous slot’s snap read on me, and Pignash couldn’t craft a good enough defense while the wagon moved on him.

However, over the past few days, AI, you’ve gone post-rational in your analysis. You say out-of-the-blue, in #245, that you believe Pignash might be telling the truth. When I asked why you had the sudden change of heart (#246) now, only after you prodded Pignash to unvote you, you asserted that you had already answered my question, and then you launched onto me. You say that I and Nic are scum based on “PoE”, but your answer begs many questions.

Specifically, you, AI, haven’t yet responded to KAAG’s list or his concerns of you raised in #168. Also, in your list why do you rate yourself as super-town given these outstanding issues of your waffling, deflecting, and braggadocios post of “solving” the game on d1? Do you seriously consider yourself less suspect than pignash, you have rated just behind Bellaphant and Accountant?

Please explain yourself, AI.

[Drixx]

Post #273 doesn't look like it was written by someone who doesn't already know that town lynches every day, even day one. That's pretty damning, imo. That's exactly the sort of thing I look for when someone opens the game pretending to know nothing about how it works. Wow.