Newbie 1676 | Hungarian Nóták | Endgame

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.07 Ahol az én bölcsőm ringott

Ahol az én bölcsőm ringott, szebb a vidék, szebb a termő róna.
Emléke még mindig kísér, minden éjjel álmodozom róla.
Ott nevelt az édesanyám, féltő gonddal tanított a jóra;
Este, mikor elringatott, szépen szólt az altatgató nóta.

Meséljen még, édesanyám, olyan szépen, mint azelőtt régen.
Ne fájjon úgy a csalódás; ami elmúlt, vissza sose térjen.
A szívemnek mutassa meg, merre vezet a feledés útja;
Ott, ahol a bölcsőm ringott, boldog leszek édesanyám újra.

Where my cradle rocked, the countryside is more beautiful, the planting fields are more beautiful.
Its memory always accompanies me, I dream of it every night.
There my mother raised me, carefully taught me what is good;
Evenings, when she rocked me to sleep, she sang the lullaby beautifully.

Tell me a story again, mother, as nicely as you told me a long time before.
Let not the disappointment hurt so much; what is past let it never return again.
Show my heart where the road to forgetfulness leads;
There, where my cradle rocked, I will be happy again mother.

lynching

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or no lynch.

Some Random Mafia Player

(L-1): hiplop, Smudger, Witch_Hunter, MrCurlyNoodles

Bluebird

(L-4): AzoriusSenate

Belisarius

(L-4): Bluebird

Kim

(L-4): Belisarius

Smudger

(L-4): Some Random Mafia Player

Not voting

(1): Kim,

Witch_Hunter, MrCurlyNoodles

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(expired on 2016-01-20 14:00:00)

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[hiplop]

Belisarius, you've been rather quiet about SRMP too. Why?

Because I still remember my first game, and how intimidated I was by an aggressive SE. (Who, for the record, turned out to be a pretty cool guy in the end).

Smudger's case looks really good on the surface, and in a non-newbie game I'd probably be on the wagon, but in this situation I remain unconvinced.

Acceptable answer, but why did you wait until being prodded to say it?

[Witch_Hunter]

@

MrCurlyNoodles

: I'm quite flattered.
Spoiler tags are pretty easy to use, and make long texts much easier to digest. Give them a try later - you don't even have to post anything, just preview the results until you're satisfied and then cancel the post. And let me know if you find other cool features, I'm still experimenting.

P-edit: @ Belisarius: What about Kim makes him lynch worthy?

His interference with a perceived gambit by hiplop makes no sense from a town perspective, but could come from scum trying to manipulate me while at the same time making a show of standing up to the IC.

There's also something else right on the tip of my tongue, but I've been trying to draw it out for days and it's being a stubborn git.

I suppose that's SE-speak for "I have some evidence, but it's not the moment to talk about it yet". If that's the case, let's discuss it later, assuming we are both alive tomorrow. Some have townread Kim, some think he should be lynched, and I don't see what either side is seeing.

Is there a rule that all veteran players have to speak in vague and mysterious tones? I was earlier annoyed by Smudger doing the same. Now I begin to see the point, seeing the reaction he got from Some Random Mafia Player, but still, really high-level games probably read like the Delphic Oracle.

@

Kim, Bluebird, AzoriuSenate

, what about you? Convinced or not? If convinced, please state intent to hammer, but

don't vote before he has a chance to claim

, please.

[Kim]

Short version: I'm not convinced SRMP is scum.

Reasoning: I've never played chat mafia, but from what I've heard secondhand in the earlier newbie games I've played, I think SRMP's votes on Bluebird and me (specifically, their voting with little evidence with a desire to talk about it + their quick switch) can be explained by their experience with that. I've heard that votes flow much more freely in those games. It also explains their stream-of-consciousness style of posting and the lack of clarity in some (many?) of their posts.

My dual-iso of SRMP and Smudger I did last night was focused more on seeing whether SRMP had a case on Smudger and, if not, whether SRMP's case was scummy. I came up with negative answers to both questions. I need to reread to see if Smudger got any new reactions from SRMP; on first look (and the semi-look that I made while rereading), I didn't think he did -- but WH, at least, seems to think otherwise.

(BTW, this is the first chance I've had to post since late last night (UTC-6).)

[Witch_Hunter]

But just from reading the thread when he arrived, he must have noticed that's not the way we're playing. It could be culture shock, but even if this explains his posts' disorganization, I don't think it also explains his inconsistent, defensive playstyle.

What I got from the SRMP-Smudger fight boils down to "Smudger pressures SRMP to get a reaction, SRMP freaks and makes a very unconvincing case on Smudger". Not damning by itself, but part of an overall behavior that is, at least, anti-town.

While Bluebird and AzoriuSenate don't show up: let's suppose you stay unconvinced. Who do you want lynched today? Belisarius (who isn't convinced either) wants either you or Bluebird. What do you suggest?

[Witch_Hunter]

After all, it doesn't necessarily have to be Some Random Mafia Player, provided we have a better case on someone else, but Day 1 should have a lynch. A short discussion with arguments against no-lynch: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4024936

[Belisarius]

Belisarius, you've been rather quiet about SRMP too. Why?

Because I still remember my first game, and how intimidated I was by an aggressive SE. (Who, for the record, turned out to be a pretty cool guy in the end).

Smudger's case looks really good on the surface, and in a non-newbie game I'd probably be on the wagon, but in this situation I remain unconvinced.

Acceptable answer, but why did you wait until being prodded to say it?

I wanted to give it more time to play out, and I didn't want to fuck Smudger's play the exact way I growled at Kim for fucking yours. L-1, however, is not the time to play the waiting game

[Some Random Mafia Player]

eh, you can hammer, first game is boring anyway. Nobody pays attention.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

and note: I never raged, but eh nobody cares I just get ignored it seems.

[Some Random Mafia Player]

actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )

[Plotinus]

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[AzoriusSenate]

VOTE: Some Random Mafia Player

Some Random Mafia Player

's (lack of) formatting makes his posts a pain to analyze.

The TL;DR version, to quote

Smudger

, is:

"But lest look at your content so far...on the whole so far your responses are scummy. you are not consistent, you are raging and not actually saying anything that makes sense let alone points to anything of substance."

@

Everyone

, opinions, please. More specifically, either persuade me my case is nonsense or prepare to lend your votes. There are other things deserving investigation, and we still have time to start looking into them before the Day ends, but this is important.

A caveat that must be mentioned: his fight with Smudger is a big mess of text walls and I didn't go too deeply into it, partly because it's still going. But the rest should suffice. There's a pattern of inconsistency and throwing wild accusations around.

Spoiler: First, his vote on Kim:

VOTE: Kim We'll see where this goes

why do you think kim is scum? If you don't think they are scum, why are you pressuring them? It just contradicts to what you said earlier.

Welcome, new people!

While I'm up (most of the time I can sleep through my phone vibrating when it gets this thread's subscription email, but not tonight, apparently)...

UNVOTE: hiplop for the reasons mentioned by Belisarius, Witch_Doctor, and him. Nobody else seems worthy of a vote at this hour.

Sure, they might be right, but I would take note that this is Kim's first post since hiplop unvoted them. Maybe they unvoted because they only did it to try and somewhat pressure hilop into getting off them? There is reason to do this, as Hiplop is the easiest person to sheep due to it being assumed he knows exactly what hes doing.

Kim (havent seen towny things, bu have seen scummy things from this slot. Not the most scummy, but is second behind bluebird)

For now, VOTE: Kim, while I think bluebird is scummier, I feel this is a more important lynch to discuss. Not saying you shouldn't discuss the bluebird lynch though.

Great case. Really solid. Gave us lots of material to ponder. "Bluebird is scum, but I'm voting Kim, even though I have no real reason to, just to pressure him. Btw, hiplop is weird for trying to pressure Kim".

But maybe you really saw something odd about Kim and just wanted to see our opinion. Except, when called out on it, you go on the defensive instead of giving us a reason to talk about him:

Also, I would like to point out that I was not gonna stick with my kim lynch. I was trying to put a discussion point in place. But since we decided to ignore it I moved my lynch to the person I think is scum which is bluebird, not the discussion lynch which is kim

(although if we decided to lynch them I would be on board for it)

@

Some Random Mafia Player

:
I also liked your post, at first. Until I got to the end.
It has one

little

thing I don't understand: the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Your case on Bluebird follows on AzoriusSenate's and reinforces it, and most of your post is spent on it. So far, so good. Yet you vote on Kim, saying "havent seen towny things, bu have seen scummy things from this slot. Not the most scummy, but is second behind bluebird", though you only pointed to one post of his.

So, please enlighten me here. What's your case on Kim, and why vote him if he's not your strongest scumread?

As I stated, discussion lynch, and I mostly saw discussion on the ppl interacting with kim, not kim themself. That dident work though because due to doing that people discussed me for trying to start a discussion on kim instead of discussing kim because that was the whole point for the vote everyone sees as scummy in the first place.

And since I keep thinking of things. Another thing I want to point out was that I was not planning to stick with the lynch, so if I was bussing, why would I lead a lynch before hopping off the wagon? That would be scummy as fuck and get me lynch easily, then again, thats wifom. Now that i think of it, your assuming I am trying to avoid a bus (I think) if you are, how could I still be bussing? That would mean 3 scum. So do you thnik im bussing or avoiding a bus? Also,
[...]
witch, its page 3, theres not much to base off of does not contain much, its only page 4, page 3 at that time. The main thing is what Azorius said, which imo makes a lot of sense.

Spoiler: Second, his vote on Bluebird:

I am not scared to join the bluebird wagon, especially since no discussion actually happened on kim. The point of me doing it is now useless so UNVOTE: Kim VOTE: Bluebird and that one-liner that I made was because I dident see this. I think this justifies your read on me.

You are quite confident she is scum based on some 5 posts:

belisaurus, I guess your right, but if you flipped scum I was suspicious of bluebird anyway, it wouldent have made much difference in my reads chart. I probably dident take into account the possibility of your flip coming first because im sure bluebird is dying first due to getting a d1 lynch (unless the sub turns it around)

Except, of course, when you're not:

Interesting, if Bluebird does get subbed, I say we wait to see what they do before we go for a lynch.

noting that I put bluebird at L-2, so imo dont lynch them yet even if they return.

MrCurlyNoodles

asked what was so scummy about Bluebird, and you gave a non answer:

I'm curious why everyone seems so sure that Bluebird is scum. The opening posts definitely seemed quite defensive but I read it like Witch_Hunter did, just as a new player reacting to being voted first and for no apparent reason if they didn't know about RVS (I didn't know about the RVS until I read the guides hiplop posted). If they knew about RVS the reaction is a super-nervous-possibly-scummy reaction, but if they didn't it might have just been a first time nervous reaction (as I might have had in the same situation). This might just be me being a noob and not seeing the whole situation or just not understanding all the logistics of this game though So people voting for bluebird: want to tell more of why you think they're scum? Or is it just those opening posts and trying to put pressure to get a response out of her? It is pretty weird that she hasn't really posted since.
[...]
Speaking of gut feelings, Some Random Mafia Player's initial post, immediately bandwagoning on AzoriusSenate's post and voting Kim despite spending most of the post calling Bluebird scum, and the way they immediately backed down (kind of defensively too) when hiplop called them out on it also gives me a gut scum feeling. Their point about "just trying to create discussion" also seems somewhat invalid to me since some discussion was already had on kim, enough that some minds were changed. Then again, being someone who subbed in they might not have fully read all of that. And they have been posting a lot since then, seemingly trying to out the scum. So idk.

Either way welcome to the new people! Hopefully we all have a great time!

Side note: I'm aware this post sounds very defensive of Bluebird, but I'm honestly just genuinely curious about why some people seem so sure she's scum. I get the pressure thing. But beyond that I'm wondering what people's thought processes are.

If discussion was already on kim, I complete missed that. Also, my goal wasent achieved, and with your point, their was no reason for my vote to remain. Read on Azorius? (to comment on more of your post I need this read)

Spoiler: Third, his reads are strange:

Also think Azoriusenate is town, solid opening post, agree with everything said.

scumreads:
Bluebird (overly defensive in rvs mostly, but
Belisarius (if bluebird flips scum)
Kim (havent seen towny things, bu have seen scummy things from this slot. Not the most scummy, but is second behind bluebird)

neutral:

Mrcurlynoodles: (his post seems town, but he needs to be more active before I can for sure call him town)

hiplop: (doesent seem townie or scummy.)
Smudger: (inactive and mosty useless posts. But 64 looks towny

Townreads
witch: (I see nothing scummy and lots of town)

AzoriuSenate (He just came in, but that post looks town. I could see it coming from scum though)

For now, I'll just say I disagree with most of them (mostly by being uncertain about a few people you already have an opinion about). Here's the odd thing, though: you're blatantly following AzoriuSenate's reads (even now, AS wants to lynch Kim and Bluebird). Based on his

one

post. Even though, of course, he could be scum.
Maybe you're the kind that trusts people. But then again, you don't extend the same trust to MrCurlyNoodles, who has posted just as much.

It's almost as if AzoriuSenate's accusations were convenient, so of course he had to be town.

Spoiler: Finally, his vote on Smudger:

I like smudger and witch as town so far. Waiting on Bluebird to do anything. I also want to look into a Kim lynch today if things change. (They usually do in mafia.)

explain the smudger read? He hasent posted much relevant to this game imo, he seems to be fillering, although his relevant posts don't incidcate scum, which unless I missed something is onl 2

leaving this here and walking away, I even stated it doesent indicate hes scum ffs.

Also, I am still unhappy smudge hasent really interacted with anyone. He asked me 2 questions, made a decent post, and thats kinda it. The other 13 have not been helpful. Doesn't change my stance on him much though.

you missed my post about time differences? or are you just becoming tunnel visioned because I questioned you?

since im too lazy to throw everything into one post, I dident miss the timezone difference, and my last post disapproves the second option

once again, and I linked it, I never called you scum.

You didn't scumread him at first. Until he did something awful: pressuring you. Suddenly, he's scum:

actually, what explanation can a town use to justify smudgers actions?

UNVOTE: bluebird
VOTE: Smudger

I think he scumslipped, he should be lynched. Theres no way he missed the fact I still read him as null, but he tried to build a case on me as if I said he was scum anyway, if he knew I read him null, why would he lie? To push a case on a townie? (if you really want to confirm this, I offer to be lynched first, but I doubt you actually need the extra evidence, and no, this isent a "oh he tried to offer to be lynched and since scum wouldent do that he tried to make it look like he townslipped! Get him!")

You never said you changed your opinion on either Bluebird or Kim, by the way, so apparently we have 3 scum in this game.

I like this post, and agree with pretty much everything you are saying. I would like to hear his response.

[AzoriusSenate]

eh, you can hammer, first game is boring anyway. Nobody pays attention.

and note: I never raged, but eh nobody cares I just get ignored it seems.

actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )

This is awful.

UNVOTE: Bluebird

Intent to hammer. Claim.

[AzoriusSenate]

Short version: I'm not convinced SRMP is scum.

Reasoning: I've never played chat mafia, but from what I've heard secondhand in the earlier newbie games I've played, I think SRMP's votes on Bluebird and me (specifically, their voting with little evidence with a desire to talk about it + their quick switch) can be explained by their experience with that. I've heard that votes flow much more freely in those games. It also explains their stream-of-consciousness style of posting and the lack of clarity in some (many?) of their posts.

My dual-iso of SRMP and Smudger I did last night was focused more on seeing whether SRMP had a case on Smudger and, if not, whether SRMP's case was scummy. I came up with negative answers to both questions. I need to reread to see if Smudger got any new reactions from SRMP; on first look (and the semi-look that I made while rereading), I didn't think he did -- but WH, at least, seems to think otherwise.

(BTW, this is the first chance I've had to post since late last night (UTC-6).)

Note: If SRMP flips town I heavily FOS Kim for this post.

[Kim]

(I get pulled away from the computer often when I'm at work. I started this post before Belisarius' 181, but it's likely moot now.)

Spoiler: Reply to WH's 179

But just from reading the thread when he arrived, he must have noticed that's not the way we're playing. It could be culture shock, but even if this explains his posts' disorganization, I don't think it also explains his inconsistent, defensive playstyle.

Agreed with the last part -- the defensiveness seems more like a newbie thing, but if he's* got experience in chat mafia, it doesn't seem like that would be an issue.

*Is SRMP a "he"? I might have overlooked where they said that; anyway, I'm going to assume they are for the rest of this post, at any rate.

However, it's possible that he's just trying to play in the way that seems natural to him. I know some people have viewed my posts as too calculated and viewed that as scummy in pretty much every game I've played so far.

What I got from the SRMP-Smudger fight boils down to "Smudger pressures SRMP to get a reaction, SRMP freaks and makes a very unconvincing case on Smudger". Not damning by itself, but part of an overall behavior that is, at least, anti-town.

I need to start hydra-ing so I can talk with other people about stuff like that. For now, suffice it to say that I disagree with some of that.

While Bluebird and AzoriuSenate don't show up: let's suppose you stay unconvinced. Who do you want lynched today? Belisarius (who isn't convinced either) wants either you or Bluebird. What do you suggest?

I will say that SMRP is the scummiest player to me, but I'd only put the probability that he's scum at around 40 or 45 percent. I guess that's about 20 or 27 on your scum meter. If Plotinus secretly PM'd me and said SMRP was town, I'm not sure where my vote would go. Assuming nothing else of note happened until the deadline (

at which time I'll be unavailable, BTW

), I'd be okay with voting for whichever null player has the most votes -- I would try to be as open as possible about the fact that that was what I was doing, so hopefully I wouldn't be viewed as scummy for doing so.

@AzoriusSenate

: Are you really going to FOS me for not being convinced a theoretical town!SRMP is scum? That seems backwards. I'd assume you would FOS me (or worse) if he flipped scum, so you could save some time and just FOS me now if 188 is accurate. (I'm leaving out the case where we don't lynch SMRP, but I don't see that happening now.)

[AzoriusSenate]

(I get pulled away from the computer often when I'm at work. I started this post before Belisarius' 181, but it's likely moot now.)

Spoiler: Reply to WH's 179

But just from reading the thread when he arrived, he must have noticed that's not the way we're playing. It could be culture shock, but even if this explains his posts' disorganization, I don't think it also explains his inconsistent, defensive playstyle.

Agreed with the last part -- the defensiveness seems more like a newbie thing, but if he's* got experience in chat mafia, it doesn't seem like that would be an issue.

*Is SRMP a "he"? I might have overlooked where they said that; anyway, I'm going to assume they are for the rest of this post, at any rate.

However, it's possible that he's just trying to play in the way that seems natural to him. I know some people have viewed my posts as too calculated and viewed that as scummy in pretty much every game I've played so far.

What I got from the SRMP-Smudger fight boils down to "Smudger pressures SRMP to get a reaction, SRMP freaks and makes a very unconvincing case on Smudger". Not damning by itself, but part of an overall behavior that is, at least, anti-town.

I need to start hydra-ing so I can talk with other people about stuff like that. For now, suffice it to say that I disagree with some of that.

While Bluebird and AzoriuSenate don't show up: let's suppose you stay unconvinced. Who do you want lynched today? Belisarius (who isn't convinced either) wants either you or Bluebird. What do you suggest?

I will say that SMRP is the scummiest player to me, but I'd only put the probability that he's scum at around 40 or 45 percent. I guess that's about 20 or 27 on your scum meter. If Plotinus secretly PM'd me and said SMRP was town, I'm not sure where my vote would go. Assuming nothing else of note happened until the deadline (

at which time I'll be unavailable, BTW

), I'd be okay with voting for whichever null player has the most votes -- I would try to be as open as possible about the fact that that was what I was doing, so hopefully I wouldn't be viewed as scummy for doing so.

@AzoriusSenate

: Are you really going to FOS me for not being convinced a theoretical town!SRMP is scum? That seems backwards. I'd assume you would FOS me (or worse) if he flipped scum, so you could save some time and just FOS me now if 188 is accurate. (I'm leaving out the case where we don't lynch SMRP, but I don't see that happening now.)

The reason I would FOS you if he flips town is very simple and i'm starting to fos you more for not really thinking about it. More than likely SMRP is going to be lynched today so at this point it would be a good time for scum to "townread" SMRP if he actually is town. This gives scum towncred when he flips town. I don't think an actual townie would speak up to randomly defend someone who is likely to be lynched unless they are CERTAIN they are town.

[Kim]

The reason I would FOS you if he flips town is very simple and i'm starting to fos you more for not really thinking about it. More than likely SMRP is going to be lynched today so at this point it would be a good time for scum to "townread" SMRP if he actually is town. This gives scum towncred when he flips town. I don't think an actual townie would speak up to randomly defend someone who is likely to be lynched unless they are CERTAIN they are town.

It wasn't random -- Witch_Doctor explicitly asked for my thoughts on him in 177. I had a few minutes to post, so I did.

@

Kim, Bluebird, AzoriuSenate

, what about you? Convinced or not? If convinced, please state intent to hammer, but

don't vote before he has a chance to claim

, please.

[hiplop]

actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )

Always look on the bright side of like doo do doo doo do doo?

UNVOTE:

Too many games have quickhammers. I want to see his claim and etc

[hiplop]

actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )

desperately trying to figure out if this is an attempt at AtE (appeal to emotion) or if he actually is just upset

(BTW, sorry for lacklustery posts last day or two. Got a nasty flu )

[AzoriusSenate]

actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )

Always look on the bright side of like doo do doo doo do doo?

UNVOTE:

Too many games have quickhammers. I want to see his claim and etc

I don't really understand why you unvoted. I said I was not going to hammer until there was a claim made.

[AzoriusSenate]

actually, eh i can self hammer, but I don't feel like breaking the rules, just hammer me and let me join other games (stuck with only 1 game is boring af, I would rather get lynched d1 in 10 games at once )

desperately trying to figure out if this is an attempt at AtE (appeal to emotion) or if he actually is just upset

(BTW, sorry for lacklustery posts last day or two. Got a nasty flu )

If he is town here he should not being giving up so easily. Weak town is not going to help us in the later game either.

[hiplop]

I know. I'll revote soon. I'm mostly trying to reevaluate if we're right here. I'm pretty damn certain the slot is scum but that last post is making me twitch a little

also sick etc etc. Want to hear more from people like Belisarius

[Witch_Hunter]

@

AzoriusSenate

: Thank you!

@

hiplop

: Why the unvote? The only risk was SRMP self-hammering, but that would in itself be a claim, or a refusal to claim, would it not?

@

Kim

: /Somewhat offtopic: If it helps, I'll tell you this: when I became interested in Mafia, at first I supposed it was a logic game. Watch who lies, who is inconsistent, and voilà, scum found. That's why I once said I like the way you post, btw. My first posts actually reflect this belief: I saw no reason we couldn't all be friendly and talk about pizza and Canadian music while also playing the game seriously.

Now, after playing for a few days, I'm increasingly suspicious logic's only a small part of it, and what differentiates good players is skill in bluffing and reading people,

in that order

. Read a few games from non-newbies, and it's like they're all BSing each other until, somehow, a scumdar pings. And I'm a crappy card player in RL. In other words, I like this game,

but it's hard, and in different ways than expected

.

So, just in case I read you right and you feel you don't quite get what's going on and don't have the required skillset to be a badass Mafia player, well, I'm in the same boat. Probably all the other newbies are too.
If this makes no sense to you, feel free to ignore it.

[hiplop]

Kim: /Somewhat offtopic: If it helps, I'll tell you this: when I became interested in Mafia, at first I supposed it was a logic game. Watch who lies, who is inconsistent, and voilà, scum found. That's why I once said I like the way you post, btw. My first posts actually reflect this belief: I saw no reason we couldn't all be friendly and talk about pizza and Canadian music while also playing the game seriously.

Now, after playing for a few days, I'm increasingly suspicious logic's only a small part of it, and what differentiates good players is skill in bluffing and reading people, in that order. Read a few games from non-newbies, and it's like they're all BSing each other until, somehow, a scumdar pings. And I'm a crappy card player in RL. In other words, I like this game, but it's hard, and in different ways than expected.

you're not wrong! Mafia is a weird game that is somewhat logic based but also very emotional. I'm glad you're picking up on this sorta stuff, makes me happy!

And I mean perhaps my unvote is not the best, but I am sick and not in the right state of mind to process the latest string of SMRP posts.

[Bluebird]

@

Kim, Bluebird, AzoriuSenate

, what about you? Convinced or not? If convinced, please state intent to hammer, but

don't vote before he has a chance to claim

, please.

I am not convinced SRMP is mafia. He definitely overreacted, yes, but he reads like scrambling town to me.

@

Everyone

, opinions, please. More specifically, either persuade me my case is nonsense or prepare to lend your votes. There are other things deserving investigation, and we still have time to start looking into them before the Day ends, but this is important.

Spoiler: My Opinions

My Reads:

Town

Witch Hunter- Reasonable actions so far and has asked good questions.

Shrugtown

MrCurlyNoodles- Generally amiable, nothing scummy has caught my eye.
hiplop- Same as MrCurlyNoodles.
SMRP- Based on my scumread of Smudger. He may be mafia, but I don't have my eye on him.
Belisarius- I originally put him under Worrying, but I don't have any basis for that other than a gut feeling.

Worrying

Kim- May have tried to buddy with Belisarius, and made the comment about being open with thoughts, which I thought was strange, considering your experience.
AzoriusSenate- For the claim on SMRP's hammer based on the quality of his posts. And I don't like his logic.

Scum

Smudger- His stats on the wiki say he's subbed out of all except one of the games in which he's town. Those are big red alarms to me. And I think, if SMRP really is town, he might be trying to frame for a mislynch.

Spoiler: I Said I'd Post This

This is my offsite game. Also, the second person to post claimed mafia. It was stupid, and he got lynched for it, and he was town, but he did. So there, @

Azorius

. http://forums.intpcomplex.com/showthrea ... ia-5-Day-1

Always look on the bright side of

life!

doo! do doo, doo do doo

do doo do

?

UNVOTE: Belisarius, VOTE: Smudger. If anyone thinks I shouldn't, please tell me why.