Newbie 1671 - Game Over (Scum win)

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 2.4

Sarg338 (3) - camn, Plotinus, franksa
camn (0) -
tictac (1) - pignash
KuroiXHF (1) - tictac
franksa (0) -
pignash (0) -
Plotinus (2) - Sarg338, KuroiXHF

Not Voting:

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is Tuesday, January 19th 2016 at 1:30 pm PST or in (expired on 2016-01-19 13:30:00)

[pignash]

Sarg, your arguments don't make any sense and you haven't gotten any better than when I was scum reading you yesterday. I feel more strongly about tictac, but you are my second read and I wouldn't be surprised if you guys were scum together.

You seem like you are trying to set up a lynch on me tomorrow which I think is scummy. You've already claimed so I will do this

intent to hammer

What are your final reads?

[Sarg338]

I'm sorry that you don't see what I'm trying to say. Then again, it is against you, so it doesn't surprise me to see you try and write it off.

You seem like you are trying to set up a lynch on me tomorrow

The lynch on you tomorrow would only be if we lynch scum today. Otherwise, I'd re-evaluate based on the lynch and night kill. Still could come up you though.

You should know my reads if you've been following along. My #1 and #2 have been clearly stated, and that last post served as an update on them, among others.

Go ahead and hammer me. Funny how you're finally willing to vote again after I call you out on how little voting and pressure you've done, huh? Hopefully town can use my flip to help them out.

[pignash]

I vote for scum reads. I am now.

VOTE: Sarg

And I am now. That's the hammer. Please be scum.

[Sarg338]

This is even more relevant now.

Was fun, GL Town!

[camn]

WTF, pig.
I know I was late to the party, but that could have waited, no?

I guess its never too soon to throw your partner under the bus.

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 2.Final

Sarg338 (4) - camn, Plotinus, franksa, pignash
camn (0) -
tictac (0) -
KuroiXHF (1) - tictac
franksa (0) -
pignash (0) -
Plotinus (2) - Sarg338, KuroiXHF

Not Voting:

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Sarg338,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched.

Night 2 begins now. Deadline is Friday, January 15th at 11:55 am PST which is in (expired on 2016-01-15 11:55:00)

[Jackal711]

Plotinus,

Vanilla Townie

, was killed Night 2

VOTE COUNT 3.0

camn (0) -
tictac (0) -
KuroiXHF (0) -
franksa (0) -
pignash (0) -

Not Voting: camn, franksa, pignash, KuroiXHF, tictac

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is Friday, January 29th 2016 at 12:00 pm PST or in (expired on 2016-01-29 12:00:00)

[tictac]

K then.
This is LYLO. That means any single town on town vote risks instantly losing(mafia can pile votes on very quickly using daychat).
So please don't vote recklessly. This is a good time to use FOS instead.

[tictac]

@pignash
Why did you feel hammering a secondary scumread with 6 days left on the clock was in any way a good idea?

[tictac]

@camn
I keep reading 705 as you claiming scum with pig. I didn't think that was a thing that could actually happen.
It's possible I'm having a problem with english (my second language)
Do shed some light to your thoughts there.

[camn]

I was still hoping to see a Sarg scumflip, and I figured pigs hammer was him hammering his scumpartner.

Agree that we shouldn't vote too quickly. Need to reread and check some things.

[camn]

Also coffee.

So look- I am a little surprised we haven't hit scum yet.
That said, I still am thinking tic-tac is town, which leaves TWO scum in [franksa, pignash, KuroiXHF].

I have sadly seen lurker scum win WAY too many times, which would sit with a franksa/pignash scumteam.
Also, I haven't really checked.. but it seems like the night phases have gone all the way to deadline, which jives with a low-activity scumteam.

On the other hand, the scumteam seems...efficient? Which maybe opens the door for Kuroiscum, as he at least seems more engaged?

I re-read over the night phase really looking at day 1. I don't think the scumteam hit Rask by chance.. and it was occurring to me YESTERDAY that maybe Plotinus was scum after all, and had seen some sort of soft claim.. but I couldnt really find it. I asked him about it yesterday.. and it seemed more like he was reading Rask as roleFISHING than roleCLAIMING. In any event, Plot is now flipped town, so there goes that idea.

Tictac- you are the only one I have a decent townread on now (although I have been pretty

wrong

this game).. so Ima run some things by you.

1st: Could Kuroi's cop-talk have been HIM rolefishing? And did Rask drop a hint?
Like this:

And I'm all for doing more than just waiting for cop to do our jobs for us. I'm sure I could be doing a better job, just like everyone else can seeing as perfection is always sought after, but never reached. Still, with that being said, I don't think I'm on the list of people who aren't doing their job.

Minor nitpick but as far as I know cop isn't confirmed to be in our game. Read about the Matrix6 setup.

Ok checked and there are 6 variations and cop is only in 2 of them, so that's a 1/3 chance assuming each variation is equally likely. That's not much.

Maybe this was enough.. and Kuroi read it as "the damsel doth protest too much?"
I don't know if I buy it..
Do you see anything else? i know you were looking into this angle Day 2.

[KuroiXHF]

@pignash
Why did you feel hammering a secondary scumread with 6 days left on the clock was in any way a good idea?

I, too, am curious. I'm going to be honest - Pignash is among the top two I suspect. Along with that, he's been lurking a bit. Franksa has also flew well under the radar yesterday and was saved on Day One.

As for Plot's turn, I'm actually very surprised to find out he's town. I expected him to be too good for me to catch him, but it turned out I was being paranoid. The silver lining here is that his reads can tell us a lot, so I plan forward to start there.

[KuroiXHF]

try to respond to my points?

Seems to be an almost futile effort at this point.

A while back, I was spectating a game because a couple players I admire were hydraing in it. There was a cop guilty on their slot, and at the time, if that had been me, I would have just rolled over and self voted because fair enough.

So this is possibly irrelevant to the game, but what is "hydraing" or what does it mean "to hydra?"

Tell me why, can you Sarge? How on Earth is Plot not town?

Also: VOTE:

SARG338

why? I want more dangling from him.
My logic was good coming in.
PLUS he was Rask's vote, which might make Sarg a little triggerhappy to kill him

This has been bothering me since I've reviewed the posts, but it's nearly impossible without a confirmed cop to know for 100% certain that someone is blatantly town. Mafia tend to appear to be helpful to the town. I don't think anyone can be so certain of someone's innocence. Even we know that Rask was very suspicious of Plot and we know for a fact now that those two guys were townies.

Absolutely agree with tictac. I was expecting Kuroi to die after all those slips. It was clear that if he didnt fake those slips, then he must be a cop.
Now, I can totally imagine him being a newbie scum, lectured by an experienced scum about the possibility of a cop, then him slipping the cop 2 times.

This is the best I have so far, but I will have to reread everything again...

VOTE: Kuroi

I'm curious, franksa, have you read everything?

VOTE: pignash L-3

his posts i've liked them the least so far this day phase.

was debating just proxying my vote to one of my townreads.

but i feel like pignash was just pushing me on semantics.

and i just keep remembering this conversation we had in history mafia where he asked me (in private, thankfully), if he should try to get the masons to claim and i told him that if he did that i would lynch him. and this kind of reminds me of that, asking questions about me saying "just in case" when it's hard to answer without slipping whether you're VT or PR.

i'm giving the brand new players more of a pass on this because I know that PRs are exciting and it's really hard to not talk about them and really hard to not speculate but this isn't the day phase for it.

pignash is less new than the people i'm giving a pass to but he is still newish. i might be going too far in the other direction?

Keeping this handy. Plot was very suspicious of pignash. Quite frankly, I am too. He's probably the #2 scummiest person this game and I'd like to estimate that there's a 60-70% chance he's scum.

Didn't realize it had been that long, sorry guys. Thoughts on the last page incoming.

I never really found such a post with your thoughts. I found something, but it wasn't as insightful as I was hoping it would be. It is a bit length for me to post here. It was 661, and I have a hunch it was so he could say, "I didn't vote for Sarg!"

Oh, it has been 2 days already? Sorry guys... I am in a game readthrough, will post when finished.

And this guy here is #1 for scummiest. You'll see...

This is to avoid prodding. I am very busy this weekend...

This was nearly PC-level for something I wouldn't want to see. People would say, "I'll check it out as soon as I can." His post was a cop-out. I also hate involving real life into games, but more than half of the game has been him being unable to participate for one reason or another. With the holidays, and the winter weather, I can let a lot of that slide, but it's going to the point where I ask myself, "Is he doing this to get a pass for flying under the radar?" I'd ask him for his meta, but I think he said it's his first game. I have a feeling someone who's missed so much game time would say, "To hell with this." But he hasn't.

I am getting ignored. :'(

You haven't said really much of anything for us to respond to. It's like you're a non-popular guy at school and saying no one wants to go to prom with you if you haven't asked any girls out.

[quote="In post 690,As I promised:
UNVOTE: Kuroi
VOTE: Sarg

L-1[/quote]
Please explain this "promise" because this only appears to be bandwagonning.

I vote for scum reads. I am now.

VOTE: Sarg

And I am now. That's the hammer. Please be scum.

And this brings me to seconding tictac's questioning of you.

Because and only because this is lylo, I'm not going to vote, but I am really wanting to vote Franksa. Please answer.

[KuroiXHF]

Actually, the more I'm thinking, the more I'm trying to understand the townie's death. Plot's death was obvious. He's smart and asked a lot of questions. Rask's... I'm not so sure. I'm now asking if it's because he's also involved, deducting and considerate, but was the death of a cop lucky or did they know?

My conclusion is that there's a strong possibility that the mafia are under tutelage from someone who knows what they're doing, which appears to be from either Camn or more likely, Tictac. However, if it was luck, then the mafia may have gone after someone who was highly involved, which could very well just be anyone.

I'm not sure if this post has too much of a point, but I'm just thinking out loud.

[pignash]

I have been saying since yesterday that it was tictac. I thought for sure it was sarg that was his partner. I didn't think conversation was going anywhere so I felt fine hammering. Bad part is I was wrong and we're in Lylo. Still want to vote here:

fos: tic-tac-toe

[pignash]

Sorry auto-correct.

tictac

[pignash]

I agree the mafia seems experienced. Or at least one of them. You and tictac seem like you are strong on other sites. Camn is experienced. Franksa is new. I have played a few games but I am not scum.

Who do you think is the right scum leader?

[pignash]

That was supposed to be @kuroi.

Damn phone posting.

[KuroiXHF]

I agree the mafia seems experienced. Or at least one of them. You and tictac seem like you are strong on other sites. Camn is experienced. Franksa is new. I have played a few games but I am not scum.

Who do you think is the right scum leader?

Well my last post isn't exactly confident in that notion. If you're asking me who is scum between camn or tictac, I can't tell you. Yeah, they do seem experienced but they have two different playing styles. Tictac is a lot more aggressive than Camn. Camn would be Mission Impossible whereas Tic Tac would be Rambo.

With that said, I like to work this one step at a time... one day at a time, especially when each day like this is so important. Not only is this lylo, but even if we catch mafia, it's still most likely lylo tomorrow. So if we have a tictac vs camn lynch tomorrow, I don't even want to

think

about that until we have the issue for who is the most likely to be mafia and I think it's either (or both) you and Franksa.

My last couple of posts explained my concerns deeply enough. Please let me know if you'd like me to explain myself.

[KuroiXHF]

Sorry - pignash, I meant to put this in when writing my previous post, but I forgot. (I'm prepping my body to do an overnight shift by staying up later than I usually would...)

Pignash, how experienced would you say you are? If you were to estimate, how many games (Mafiascum and outside) would you say you've played?

[KuroiXHF]

WTF, pig.
I know I was late to the party, but that could have waited, no?

I guess its never too soon to throw your partner under the bus.

Agree that we shouldn't vote too quickly. Need to reread and check some things.[/quote]

@camn
I keep reading 705 as you claiming scum with pig. I didn't think that was a thing that could actually happen.
It's possible I'm having a problem with english (my second language)
Do shed some light to your thoughts there.

I was still hoping to see a Sarg scumflip, and I figured pigs hammer was him hammering his scumpartner.

I've been pondering this and now that you mention it, I did find it to be odd. With that said, I can't imagine Camn is so naive that he thought he could say that, expecting him to win and then find out that he has another round before he as mafia could win. I also don't think Camn has any aspirations to start a fire under his ass in such a pivotal point in the game.

Good eye. We need to catch people in some sketchiness, but I don't think it's on the money here.

@pignash
Why did you feel hammering a secondary scumread with 6 days left on the clock was in any way a good idea?

I have been saying since yesterday that it was tictac. I thought for sure it was sarg that was his partner. I didn't think conversation was going anywhere so I felt fine hammering. Bad part is I was wrong and we're in Lylo. Still want to vote here:

fos: tic-tac-toe

I don't like this answer. There is always something more to be learned by talking about someone. Had we done it, we may not be in lylo. This is the talk of scum, or someone so townie with some a blood lust/trigger finger that they think it's better to kill first and ask questions later.

Right now, he's tied with franksa (more or less) when it comes to who needs to be lynched.

[franksa]

Well, I too have been entirely wrong in this game... I thought either Plotinus or Sarg has to be scum.
I did think Kuroi can be scum too but he more or less explained himself and he was the first one coming at me now, which is townish. I will explain later why. I have a townread on him alongside with tictac. He is contributing a lot to the game, actively scumhunting, didnt do anything that sticked out. That leaves pignash and camn.
@Pignash, why did you not wait until people can express their feelings about your intent to hammer? You stated you intention then hammer a couple of hours later. We still had a lots of time to talk, I understand that you thought the conversation is not going anywhere, but why did you feel you have to hammer so quickly?
Camn... My strongest scumread. I just realized after we lost 2 more towns, that he has been buddying me since she got replaced in this game. Never went against me, always protected me, never voted on me, etc... I was the first timer who didnt have much time to play, so he sided with me to disappear from my radar. It actually worked, but now that I think about it, its very scummy. Without rereading anything I express a FOS on her. I will have to go through her and pignash's ISOs then hopefully I will be able to say more.

@Kuroi

I'm curious, franksa, have you read everything?

I have. Then. I will have to do it again now.

This was nearly PC-level for something I wouldn't want to see. People would say, "I'll check it out as soon as I can." His post was a cop-out. I also hate involving real life into games, but more than half of the game has been him being unable to participate for one reason or another. With the holidays, and the winter weather, I can let a lot of that slide, but it's going to the point where I ask myself, "Is he doing this to get a pass for flying under the radar?" I'd ask him for his meta, but I think he said it's his first game. I have a feeling someone who's missed so much game time would say, "To hell with this." But he hasn't.

So how am I supposed to defend myself against this? If it wasnt for LYLO I would find these questions very scummy, but I understand in this case we have to scumhunt very hard to get some precious reaction out of people. You involved real life into the game, so I cant disprove anything since you simply wouldnt believe it as somebody else mentioned when I was talking about myself and my personality...
I really did not have much time to play at certain points, I dont know what else to say about this. I stated it every time, maybe I shouldnt have done that, tell me after the game ended. On the other hand, I love this game and I didnt want to subbed out, this is why I rather posted something quickly to avoid prodding then wait until I can actually create content. I agree I was the least active player in this game, I was trying to watch and learn but I always wrote a post when I found someting or had a question. I know I will be accused again for using my newbieness defensively but what can I say when somebody is accusing me for acting like a newbie? In fact I am a newbie here! I have been playing completely different kind of games, with full of PR's, long day and night reports from the Mod and lots of night interactions between players. We were always studying the night events, these day talks about finding a scum only to look at people's behaviours and reactions are absolutely new to me, especially if they are happening in english. So yeah, I am bad, sorry about that I could not help a lot to the town but my alignment is town.

[tictac]

Also coffee.

So look- I am a little surprised we haven't hit scum yet.
That said, I still am thinking tic-tac is town, which leaves TWO scum in [franksa, pignash, KuroiXHF].

I have sadly seen lurker scum win WAY too many times, which would sit with a franksa/pignash scumteam.
Also, I haven't really checked.. but it seems like the night phases have gone all the way to deadline, which jives with a low-activity scumteam.

I think nights are always supposed to go to deadline? Haven't played in Jackal games before, so not sure how strict he is about it.

Frank has been practically oozing newbtown to me for most of the game.
I really didn't like his reasoning to get on Sarg-wagon thou. When I questioned him about it he added the bit about Sarg VT-reading Kuroi instead of just townreading him(668).

I'm iffy about going for lurk-scum (as sole reasoning) in a daytalk-game. A lot less reason to think scum would use that method to hide.

Pigs hammer seemed very self-defesy to me. Hammering someone who wasn't his prime-suspect just cause Sarg was scumreading him.
Might have been because he feared my Kuroi push would gain momentum and went for the mis-lynch before that could happen. If it's Kuroi-pig, Kuroi has done a pretty decent job of distancing today thou.
Also, I would expect to be dead if Kuroi is scum.

On the other hand, the scumteam seems...efficient? Which maybe opens the door for Kuroiscum, as he at least seems more engaged?

I re-read over the night phase really looking at day 1. I don't think the scumteam hit Rask by chance.. and it was occurring to me YESTERDAY that maybe Plotinus was scum after all, and had seen some sort of soft claim.. but I couldnt really find it. I asked him about it yesterday.. and it seemed more like he was reading Rask as roleFISHING than roleCLAIMING. In any event, Plot is now flipped town, so there goes that idea.

Yeah. Plot-camn was a distinct possibility to me yesterday, from the way day 1 lynch seemed to change direction when PC expressed a scumread of ya. Was overshadowed by Kuroi then, glad that I don't need to worry about that now.

Tictac- you are the only one I have a decent townread on now (although I have been pretty

wrong

this game).. so Ima run some things by you.

1st: Could Kuroi's cop-talk have been HIM rolefishing? And did Rask drop a hint?

1. Yeah, could well be. Especially if a cop had picked up his protocol for crumbing results, would have made him easy to spot by night 2.
2. Not as far as I can see. He did call CC 'VT' thou, which could be seen as a hint, but makes sense in the context of 'why did CC drop out'.

Like this:

And I'm all for doing more than just waiting for cop to do our jobs for us. I'm sure I could be doing a better job, just like everyone else can seeing as perfection is always sought after, but never reached. Still, with that being said, I don't think I'm on the list of people who aren't doing their job.

Minor nitpick but as far as I know cop isn't confirmed to be in our game. Read about the Matrix6 setup.

Ok checked and there are 6 variations and cop is only in 2 of them, so that's a 1/3 chance assuming each variation is equally likely. That's not much.

Maybe this was enough.. and Kuroi read it as "the damsel doth protest too much?"

Bit of a long-shot, but possible.
I'm still thinking that if Kuroi is scum, the purpose was more likely to be to make the 'newbtell' stronger by making Rask confirmed town, than because he knew Rask was a cop.

I don't know if I buy it..
Do you see anything else? i know you were looking into this angle Day 2.

About why Rask was nightkilled?
If frank is scum he would have wanted to spare me & Plot, cause we were both hard-townreading him. Rask was the third most active high-effort player.
Already expressed the Kuroi-scum theory.
Might just be because he had good reads and had conviction in them. He was pretty strongly against PC lynch.