Lilac is being very cautious, but given this is her second game, that could be awkward newbtowniness; newbscum and newbtown can be hard to tell apart. What I said in post 92 also gives me a very slight reason to townread her.
Haven't been a fan of lilith's reasoning, and her tone throughout the game has seemed overly anxious and jumpy.
Kinda like...
Spoiler:
Which is making me uneasy.
I agree with the thing about lilith here, that's basically my thoughts up to that point. In that post where lilith uses selfmeta about the defensiveness it makes me want to read her as town though.
Also, 134 looks pretty town to me since my predecessor was lynchbaity. So, UNVOTE: Postie, this seems best.
I thought that TMWSTW's earlygame selfvoting thing furthered a scum agenda more than a town agenda, actually, after he went through so much effort trying to justify himself and making sure everyone had the right perspective. I really have almost zero problems with the rest of his play though iirc so he's probably town.
In post 144, lilac wrote:I find it interesting how you’re trying to distance yourself from this wagon that you started. I’m pretty puzzled by this move. Can you elaborate on your discomfort?
This in particular does not look like a town thought process. The wagon that Postie started was on lilac herself - why would town!lilac be interested/concerned with someone who decided they didn't want to vote her anymore? If I'm town and worried about being mislynched, I'm much more bothered by sticky votes on me that don't seem to want to go away rather than someone who looks like they're honestly evaluating the gamestate and doubting their initial scumread.
I don't get this and see things in a polar opposite way. I would think that scum would just be like "ok cool" if someone unvoted them, rather than questioning them and potentially encouraging them to move their vote back?
This is probably a really dumb thing to say but let's be honest here, I thought I was replacing into a scum slot and was kinda surprised when I got a town role PM. The above is practically the only thing I could find in lilac's favor, all the other arguments against her are pretty well-founded imo (except for FA and Postie's weird stuff they were saying maybe). The upside to this is that my counterwagon is probably scum and is still pretty scummy even if not more scummy than I initially thought lilac was. Now to cherrypick a biased case!
In post 48, Wednesday_ wrote:Mgsv was transparent with what he did hoping to start something. I view that as town.
A really early townread on TMWSTW, which is the safe thing for scum to do when faced with someone who plays unconventionally. The reasoning behind it is shallow and no critical thinking is applied because Wednesday is scum.
In post 100, lilith2013 wrote:Because I get scumread for it anyway, and it's part of my job as town to be as towny as possible so I'm trying to fix that by not being defensive about things, but I haven't really figured out what the alternative is.
I'm not liking this post.
Wednesday demonstrates the full extent of his scumhunting ability by calling out a post which looks scummy when viewed from the most shallow perspective.
Doesn't bother to check the search all threads by player because his browser is lagging from having the mafia chat and several mafia guides open in other tabs.
In post 321, Wednesday_ wrote:Why are you nerds debating between me and lilac? You realize other players exist yes? Am still hella busy. Instead of talking yourselves to death with lilac or wednesday put others in contention to see how they react you seriously don't expect me to believe you've done nothing but argue lilac or Wednesday? Jesus.
Welcome expediance. Unfortunately I'm not so kind as others might be to give you the courtesy of an unvote. You should ask the mod for an extension by the way it would help me loads.
Wednesday wants an extension because he is afraid of being lynched or having me be lynched and flip town, so he wants more time to dissolve the dichotomy.
I could only find four quotes because he's lurking scum, pls lynch.
In post 144, lilac wrote:I find it interesting how you’re trying to distance yourself from this wagon that you started. I’m pretty puzzled by this move. Can you elaborate on your discomfort?
This in particular does not look like a town thought process. The wagon that Postie started was on lilac herself - why would town!lilac be interested/concerned with someone who decided they didn't want to vote her anymore? If I'm town and worried about being mislynched, I'm much more bothered by sticky votes on me that don't seem to want to go away rather than someone who looks like they're honestly evaluating the gamestate and doubting their initial scumread.
I don't get this and see things in a polar opposite way. I would think that scum would just be like "ok cool" if someone unvoted them, rather than questioning them and potentially encouraging them to move their vote back?
Okay nevermind, I'm just dumb and read things in the wrong order. Since you go on to say basically what I said here after lilac votes Postie, but I thought that you wrote this after lilac voted Postie, not before.
It's still a bit odd though how you use similar reasoning to call lilac scum and town. Also the "why the lilac scumreads" after the Postie vote when you were literally just pushing them before.
FA is unreadable yet lynchable like always. I don't know why GuiltyLion saw her replace out (or was it just general reaction?) as town. Droog seems really trustworthy though since he spammed posts with his entrance and that makes someone town (hint hint).
I do actually think Wednesday is scummy, it's not just because he's my counterwagon.
Davsto is doing almost nothing, but who cares, it's probably not alignment indicative.
Vandertramp person has a scummy avatar and I can't understand half his posts out of context but GuiltyLion is reading them as town so town?? (also this seems like the best kind of guy to lynch when he survives to endgame by lurking and posting in plain sight of the radar)
In post 67, TheManWhoSoldTheWorld wrote:@FA, nothing spectacular, no one attacking or defending me has done anything to stand out, with both sides have logical arguments. Me personally beveling my move is defend-able in logic, but poor in execution. The stand outs being Postie for the vote and follow up discussion, and Lilith the started asking questions which is good, but then they let Postie do the actual accusations while just agreeing, and they have yet to vote me which seems odd. I'm also waiting for Guilty Lion, see what they have to say.
VOTE: Lilith yeah I could see cautious scum here.
I didn't vote you because I didn't think it was scummy and I never said it was, I said I didn't understand why you would self-vote because I don't think it helps us. Jumping on me for that after the fact--it happened like a page ago and you've posted since then, so why didn't you say this earlier or vote me when it happened?--that seems pretty scummy to me, though.
VOTE: TMWSTW
This is bad, I think there was an argument about it with droog later which also looked bad.
In post 100, lilith2013 wrote:Because I get scumread for it anyway, and it's part of my job as town to be as towny as possible so I'm trying to fix that by not being defensive about things, but I haven't really figured out what the alternative is.
Reading this as town since it sounds genuine. From what I have seen of lilith's play so far, she's been fairly cautious and wouldn't do this as scum I think. Inb4 "muh waifum", no, it's not really WIFOM.
In post 186, GuiltyLion wrote:K after that latest post I'm thinking town on lilac and I'm pretty baffled at how confident some of you are that she's scum. That Postie vote makes no sense coming from scum, would expect her to vote lilith there.
Lilith you think she's probably town by virtue of the pressure on her, why aren't you pushing on those people? What are your reads on Wednesday and FA?
Never said lilac was town, I said I think her wagon is not entirely town, but that doesn't preclude scumbuddies distancing themselves. However I did like her 176 for the reasons outlined by TMWSTW. Her 183 is iffy and I'd like some more clarification on that, and an explanation of how she came to her other townreads, because if it's only through eliminating her scumreads then that's a bad way of forming townreads and I can see that as coming from scum.
Kinda leaving her options open, uh, yeah, I don't know why I multiquoted this.
And then there was a whole lot of other contextless stuff which seemed legit and not self-conscious so lilith is probably town.
Also if it looks like I have a lot of townreads, that's because I have a lot of townreads. I really don't know what to make of people like GuiltyLion, vandertramp and Davsto, but there is probably scum there somewhere.
In post 321, Wednesday_ wrote:Why are you nerds debating between me and lilac? You realize other players exist yes? Am still hella busy. Instead of talking yourselves to death with lilac or wednesday put others in contention to see how they react you seriously don't expect me to believe you've done nothing but argue lilac or Wednesday? Jesus.
Welcome expediance. Unfortunately I'm not so kind as others might be to give you the courtesy of an unvote. You should ask the mod for an extension by the way it would help me loads.
Um.. We're down to the last day so I really don't think we have time to form a brand new wagon. Would much rather have a lynch happen on a wagon that's there than risk a no lynch on a new wagon..
You seem pretty intent on avoiding the lilac wagon, I thought Davsto's vote on it was weakest. If lilac flips town, townpoints for you, scumpoints for Davsto.
If lilac flips scum, scumpoints for you and townpoints for Davsto.
The opposite scenario on Wednesday doesn't really work because Davsto jumped on lilac but has no reason to switch to Wednesday regardless of his alignment.
But... Scumpartners can bus and reads can be wrong. I don't think it's this black and white. But I get what you mean about lilac vs. Wednesday.
i can see the wednesday push
but so far nothings convinced me
will take a second look at that iso
and exp's new case
"...probably the worst player I have had the pleasure of playing with in the last ten years..."
"i dislike this guy immensely"
"the worst townie that ever I have ever had the misfortune to play with, by a long shot"
This I also disagree with though, nobody knows why she flaked and if she never returns we have to assume her last post is frozen in time. Lurking is only scummy when you come back after lurking, if she disappears for good then who knows what happened
+1
Lilac has a history of flaking.
In post 330, Expedience wrote:And that's L-1, Intent To Hammer, Wednesday please claim.
There is literally no reason to wait for a claim. We're just interested in the possibility she could be the cop, right? But if Wednesday claims cop, and she's actually the cop and we keep her alive, she'll be nightkilled. If Wednesday claims cop, and she's not the cop and the real cop counterclaims, they get nightkilled. Either way we lose our cop.
There's no point.
In post 337, Postie wrote:There is literally no reason to wait for a claim. We're just interested in the possibility she could be the cop, right? But if Wednesday claims cop, and she's actually the cop and we keep her alive, she'll be nightkilled. If Wednesday claims cop, and she's not the cop and the real cop counterclaims, they get nightkilled. Either way we lose our cop.
There's no point.
Only if you think of it in pure numbers
However
If we lynch Wednesday and they're the Cop, then scum will nightkill their preferred player. Result: dead Cop, dead player of scum's choosing.
If we make Wednesday claim and they're Cop, then scum is basically forced to nightkill Wednesday and we can lynch elsewhere. Result: dead Cop, dead player of town's choosing.
"...probably the worst player I have had the pleasure of playing with in the last ten years..."
"i dislike this guy immensely"
"the worst townie that ever I have ever had the misfortune to play with, by a long shot"
In post 338, Davsto wrote:If we make Wednesday claim and they're Cop, then scum is basically forced to nightkill Wednesday and we can lynch elsewhere. Result: dead Cop, dead player of town's choosing.
Well, yeah, but the chances of Wednesday not being scum if she claims cop are like 5% at this point, IMO. I'll risk that over a 100% chance of getting our cop killed any day thanks.
"...probably the worst player I have had the pleasure of playing with in the last ten years..."
"i dislike this guy immensely"
"the worst townie that ever I have ever had the misfortune to play with, by a long shot"
I'm just going to paste the entirety of Wednesday's posts following my questioning here, with every time I repeated my question to her inserted in chronological order:
In post 97, Postie wrote:Well I'd assume the "partially random" thing meant that it wasn't fully random because she gave a reason, but it wasn't a "serious case" because the reason was an RVS-ish one. Makes sense to me and doesn't strike me as backpeddling at all.
In post 97, Postie wrote:Well I'd assume the "partially random" thing meant that it wasn't fully random because she gave a reason, but it wasn't a "serious case" because the reason was an RVS-ish one. Makes sense to me and doesn't strike me as backpeddling at all.
I disagree.
Ooookay, but... why?
Now watch:
In post 143, Wednesday_ wrote:Was watching a new hope to force awakens. Pretty awesome.
@davsto why so worried about the words/minigame?
@lillith. It was very self aware. Town don't worry about how they are perceived as scum hunting will show that you are town.
@postie I know I read the post. Would you mind telling me which posts of hers you perceived as not scumhunting? Or appearing to scumhunt. It was very ambiguous your post I mean.
In post 147, Wednesday_ wrote:@vander what is your read on lilac and explain please.
Vander reminds me of franklin from the peanuts unless I am misremembering.
@lilac why is it ridiculous?
In post 162, Wednesday_ wrote:Gonna check the mina thread for games or whatever this one is moving awfully slow. And no one is doing anything. The person being looked at has left the building it would appear. Being belligerently now we should discuss who we want lynched and who we would compromise on. I want a name none of that wishy washy shit and I want everyone to say who they'd be willing to lynch.
In post 143, Wednesday_ wrote:@postie I know I read the post. Would you mind telling me which posts of hers you perceived as not scumhunting? Or appearing to scumhunt. It was very ambiguous your post I mean.
So let me get this straight - you want me to give examples of something that doesn't exist?
In post 97, Postie wrote:Well I'd assume the "partially random" thing meant that it wasn't fully random because she gave a reason, but it wasn't a "serious case" because the reason was an RVS-ish one. Makes sense to me and doesn't strike me as backpeddling at all.
In post 162, Wednesday_ wrote:Gonna check the mina thread for games or whatever this one is moving awfully slow. And no one is doing anything. The person being looked at has left the building it would appear. Being belligerently now we should discuss who we want lynched and who we would compromise on. I want a name none of that wishy washy shit and I want everyone to say who they'd be willing to lynch.
I want a lilac death.
I could conpromise on a lurker.
Says no wishy washy shit, doesn't specify who they would compromise for.
You're supposed to read my mind. I'm okay with a davsto.
In post 97, Postie wrote:Well I'd assume the "partially random" thing meant that it wasn't fully random because she gave a reason, but it wasn't a "serious case" because the reason was an RVS-ish one. Makes sense to me and doesn't strike me as backpeddling at all.
I disagree.
Ooookay, but... why?
I am literally not moving vote from here until my question is answered. From my experience, if someone ignores the same question 3+ times whilst answering pretty much everything else put to them, they're scum.
In post 205, TheManWhoSoldTheWorld wrote:@Postie, why do you have Vender as "super town", I currently have them at null and have trouble wrapping my head around such a strong read.
I share this sentiment.
@postie that looks like a reason to park a vote. I don't think anyone says that anymore. That you won't do something unless.
The disagreement is there because I made a post describing why it was backpedaling and why that self awareness was likely scum. Was that not obvious that I disagreed? I gave you the courtesy of saying so. Tell me why I should unvote lilac postie because I have yet to see you defend them.
In post 205, TheManWhoSoldTheWorld wrote:@Postie, why do you have Vender as "super town", I currently have them at null and have trouble wrapping my head around such a strong read.
Her thought process has completely mirrored mine in most places, and comes across as town to me for that reason.
In post 207, Wednesday_ wrote:@postie that looks like a reason to park a vote. I don't think anyone says that anymore. That you won't do something unless.
Me: "I'm voting you because you're doing a ridiculously scummy thing that I've only ever seen scum do."
You: "OMG stop vote parking."
??????????????????????????????????????
In post 207, Wednesday_ wrote:The disagreement is there because I made a post describing why it was backpedaling and why that self awareness was likely scum. Was that not obvious that I disagreed? I gave you the courtesy of saying so. Tell me why I should unvote lilac postie because I have yet to see you defend them.
I... know you disagree (you said "I disagree")? That's not what I'm asking. I'm quite clearly asking you to tell me
why
you disagree with the things I explained in the post I quoted (97), hence me saying "why?". I'm baffled as to how something so simple is confusing you here.
In post 321, Wednesday_ wrote:Why are you nerds debating between me and lilac? You realize other players exist yes? Am still hella busy. Instead of talking yourselves to death with lilac or wednesday put others in contention to see how they react you seriously don't expect me to believe you've done nothing but argue lilac or Wednesday? Jesus.
Welcome expediance. Unfortunately I'm not so kind as others might be to give you the courtesy of an unvote. You should ask the mod for an extension by the way it would help me loads.
Like, does this make things more understandable? Because I'm not seeing how people aren't seeing Wednesday as scummy. I really hate being ignored so I'm getting really frustrated with Wednesday here and maybe that's making me slightly tunnely, idk.
P-Edit: Shit I have no idea what to make of that. Ugh. I just... I'd be fine someone just hammering right now.
