SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[MaxwellPuckett]

I don't THINK they're scum together but I'm not going to base my reads around that just yet, there hasn't been enough time. A possible scenario could be ABR thinking he has to acknowledge Klingon's scumminess, because a lot of people seem to share the read, but would rather push the Skybird or my own wagon and would rather not take Klingon through to the end.
But that's just a possibility to explain it, I'm not sure if it actually is.

I'll ISO DGB properly later, particularly around her ZZZX scumread. It would be great if she spoke to me directly about it, though.

I know Titus' reads, but what are mollie's scumreads besides ZZZX?

PEDIT: I checked through all the votecounts, and ABR's actually been voting Klingon for longer than I thought. So, maybe they aren't on the same team, but in a game this large I'm not gonna take that to mean they can't both be scum. And, Klingon was the one who suggested multiball first, I think. Anyways, the point is I'm still focusing on my individual reads rather than putting too much credence into player ties yet. It doesn't feel like it, at all, but it's still D1.

I want Flum to respond to my answer when he gets back online today. He's been making good comments in general lately but I want to see how he follows up. Not just on mine, but the ones directed at others too.

PEDITx2: ZZZX, I remember you saying you weren't scumread DGB,

until

now. So that recent action is the reason for your read change, right?
And Titus, I understand that, two different players taking different approaches and coming up with the same scumread lends credence to the read. It makes sense. Can we talk about itlepip, though? I'm mostly on board with that, but their objection to DS suddenly switching to Skybird after scumreading them for a while read as towny to me, as it seems an unlikely thing for scum to do. But what do you think about that comment?

Yosarian: DGB's play hasn't really impressed me, and yeah, I think ZZZX wanting to engage and trying to understand her is more towny than DGB scumreading him for the whole game, but barely mentioning ZZZX beyond those early game reads posts.
I'll take another look at DGB, I already said that. The fact that you're thinking there's only one way to read that situation is weird, actually. I don't know DGB, I've never played with her, why is it suspicious that I find her blunt refusal to engage scummy? You really can't imagine a scenario where I'd find that weird? That's what's weird.
(i appreciate the pronouns dawg)

[MaxwellPuckett]

By 'barely mentioning ZZZX', I should clarify I mean simply restating the scumread without any indication about why it hasn't changed, and not actually talking to or talking about ZZZX beyond that.

[Drunken Pirates]

Even if you think each other are scum, engaging scum on their reads can tell you the beats scum want to push.

I don't discuss with scum.

This is objectively bad. ZZZX'S vote was justified imo.

Titus: even with that meta, this just sounds like DGB is flat out refusing to engagr with ZZZX. That's just avoiding information.

no

its not. I told zzthing 20 trillion times to stop talking to scum!metal so he knows that is not a scumtell. scum want to be engaged with so they can try to talk their way out of it or get town to defend them. I don't talk to my scumreads either unless they are attacking me.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I don't really agree. Maybe it's not 'objectively bad' then but I still don't like it.
I mean, if a town player gets scumread then they would have a hard time sorting the person scumreading them. They'd basically be forced to argue. I don't often see 'you're wrong about me, but I won't fight you on it' coming from anyone but scum.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Arguing about why a town player is wrong on a read is one thing, but you say you'll only talk to them if they're attacking you.. that.. doesn't seem like it's going to get you anywhere good if both of you end up being town.

[Yosarian2]

By 'barely mentioning ZZZX', I should clarify I mean simply restating the scumread without any indication about why it hasn't changed, and not actually talking to or talking about ZZZX beyond that.

ZXXX was scummy earlier in the game then did nothing for 2000 posts. I think it's totally reasonable for DGB to keep scumreading him without commenting on it much, because what was there to say?

Zzzx's whole "fight me DGB" thing was absurd, in that context, and I don't think DGB "fighting him" the way he wants would accomplish anything.

If ZZZX wants to lok more town, he needs to develop some reads based on something that happened more recently then 2000 posts ago.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I'm not townreading ZZZX, as I said earlier. I just didn't like DGB's recent posts. ZZZX was making a lot of posts that were half jokes, and yeah they weren't great, but whatever, that's not what I was focusing on. Look at the original context for DGB's statement.
Titu says 'engaging scum can be useful for reasons', and DGB responds with 'I don't engage with scum'. Like.. what do you have to lose?

[MaxwellPuckett]

ZZZX's 'fight me' was really obviously a joke, and I think you might be taking it too literally. It was just a dumb way of saying 'i don't agree with you, let's argue about it.'

[Lowkey]

I'm starting to really come around on Max scum but it's a wagon for another day. Yos is entirely right regarding ZZ. I think DGB actually looked somewhat town there by not trolling him.

Hey, people not voting Klingon. Why?

[Yosarian2]

I'm not townreading ZZZX, as I said earlier. I just didn't like DGB's recent posts. ZZZX was making a lot of posts that were half jokes, and yeah they weren't great, but whatever, that's not what I was focusing on. Look at the original context for DGB's statement.
Titu says 'engaging scum can be useful for reasons', and DGB responds with 'I don't engage with scum'. Like.. what do you have to lose?

ZZZX wanted a long, drag out fight over the question of if ZZZX's early (bad) vote of DGB was actually OMGUS or not. But that doesn't actually matter at all. What really matters is that ZZZX is still clinging on to that crappy early game vote and not engaging with the rest of the game.

If DGB falls for that, it gives ZZZX another way to stall and look like he's doing something without actually engaging in the game. That would have been the wrong move there.

[Varsoon]

Zulfy replaces Wickedestjr.
The deadline for Lynch has been extended by three days.

[DrippingGoofball]

ZZZX wanted a long, drag out fight over the question of if ZZZX's early (bad) vote of DGB was actually OMGUS or not. But that doesn't actually matter at all. What really matters is that ZZZX is still clinging on to that crappy early game vote and not engaging with the rest of the game.

It's like you grab the thoughts right out of my head and turn them into words.

I called it "unnaturally consistent."

[Yosarian2]

ZZZX wanted a long, drag out fight over the question of if ZZZX's early (bad) vote of DGB was actually OMGUS or not. But that doesn't actually matter at all. What really matters is that ZZZX is still clinging on to that crappy early game vote and not engaging with the rest of the game.

It's like you grab the thoughts right out of my head and turn them into words.

I called it "unnaturally consistent."

Yeah, it is that, but it's also even worse then that. If he just kept finding new reasons to suspect you, then it might be an honest town tunnel. In this case, though, he literally hadn't mentioned you for like a week, but he apparently doesn't have any other reads at all? And he just wants to fight more about the stuff he was fighting about in the early game.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In unrelated news, Klingon is still scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm sorry but Max is too scummy.

The way he opportunistically jumps on Klingon is blatantly scum driven.

VOTE: Max

Titus, listen to me. We are both town. I won't take cooldog in the party. Stop fear mongering, I'm concerned for you as a friend, seeing how much life force you are letting this game suck out of you. I lose energy as scum and gain energy as town. That's as basic as you can get with reading me. Does it look like I'm losing energy here?

Set aside your confbias. Why the hell would scum know they needed a strongman to kill you unless you claimed it? You are so entrenched in your day 1 opinion (I solved the game!) you are being ridiculous. It's funny, but also sad that you're playing so poorly. I expect much better from you. This makes me less excited to play games with you, knowing just how one-dimensional and proudly wrong your game can be. No lie.

Everyone else...time to vote for Max.

[MaxwellPuckett]

Yosarian: I see what you're saying. I don't know if ZZZX's play came off as that calculated, though.
But, I guess I was wrong with my earlier judgement, there was a lot of stuff I wasn't considering when I said that, its not objectively bad.

Lowkey, you're 'coming around on me being scum'. Explain how this exchange made you say that.

Pedit: Hey, look guys, remember when I said ABR might not actually want Klingon lynched? Look! I told the future.

[MaxwellPuckett]

No, seriously, ABR, are you suddenly reading Klingon as town because I gave you an opportunity to? Will you go back to this wagon tomorrow after I flip or will you manage an excuse as to why Klingon stopped being scummy that doesn't involve how I feel about her?

That, and, I've been scumreading her at varying degrees since she started posting.. I'm looking forward to how you'll frame that as opportunistic.

[DrippingGoofball]

Arguing about why a town player is wrong on a read is one thing, but you say you'll only talk to them if they're attacking you.. that.. doesn't seem like it's going to get you anywhere good if both of you end up being town.

WHAT

What does that even mean???

Like how do you know the player that is wrong is town to begin with, LOL.

Who said they'll only talk to them (plural now) if they are attacking you (who is "you?")

If you know the other player is town and you're arguing about it then you can't both be town!!!! It means you're scum, no?

Maybe I'll go smoke some crack, it might make this clearer.

[MaxwellPuckett]

I was speaking hypothetically, about a situation where two players argue without knowing the others alignment (like, freaking obviously) and both end up being town. How could you even think otherwise?

[Albert B. Rampage]

He's scum DGB.

[Zulfy]

I was speaking hypothetically, about a situation where two players argue without knowing the others alignment (like, freaking obviously) and both end up being town. How could you even think otherwise?

Hey Hi I believe this.

[Zulfy]

Reading the thread backwards.
Hi Klingon, Hi Skybird. Nice to see you again.


Telling ya right now I'm not reading the whole thing, just the scraps I need to get into this party at night

[Zulfy]

Throwing out my scumpinging for this game. It would be way too overwhelming.

[Zulfy]

VOTE: DGB

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zuffy choose a main wagon. Klingon / Max / Skybird

[Skybird]

Hi Zulfy, good to see you too.

You are going to want to read some of ABR's ISO. It's long, but you will need to see how he's switching around like a politician trying to be elected and if you trust him or not.