Mini 1755: Game Over

[Boonskiies]

Im awful confused why people think Im an easy lynch.

Its the way you play. Its different from the norm (so is mine it seems), so people dislike it. Anyway, other than a few early misunderstandings, I do think your playstyle is pretty effective.

What exactly is 'the norm'?

[Heat]

My gut reaction to this is that it is opportunistic. It feels like Heat has read the thread and sheeped the case on AlwaysInnocent. Unfortunately, I cannot see where Heat has personally got to "I want to lynch AI today".

I have been voting AI all phase and he has been my number one scumread.

Maybe if he answered my fucking question I wouldn't want to lynch him

[Boonskiies]

scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......

This is completely a


kind of post. This quote is exactly what Ircher is doing.

[Boonskiies]

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle, Droog, Pisskop}

*yawn* Nothing really here, just annoying that he's in the middle of the pack. Also, he's buddying/WKing Heat/Keyser/Pisskop with this. He's been buddying the hell out of Pisskop.

[Boonskiies]

{Ras, Droog, Heat} --> Mafia
{Boon} --> SK if there is one.

I honestly don't understand this. I'm being scum read as SERIAL KILLER? Because it was stated that I'm not having a mafia agenda, yet I'm still scum. -.-

Also, this wasn't the first time this was brought up; he just tagged up on it.

[Boonskiies]

451 is just IioA.

[Boonskiies]

Also, there is 3 scum; nothing wrong with being fine with multipl lynch canidates.

'knows' there is 3 scum, and still start pushing for a SK lynch. I understand that it's easily assumed, but 3 mafia and a SK? Come on.

[Boonskiies]

1. Well, besides voting, what else is there you can do. Voting Pisskop really wouldn't be a good idea imo at the time.
2. I justified myself, did I not? Also, 2 posts could mean a difference if there is a lot of communication in between the postsm

3. Ok, yes, my reads do tend to change quite a bit. The thing is, I am pretty comfortable with my current reads even if it doesn't sem like it.

Anyway, the main catalyst is when I reconsider things and possibilities. Games are dynamic, not static, so try to keep my reads the same way. As we get closer to the end, my reads will begin to narrow down.

I guess you do have a point here though.

@Droog
No, but I do expect you to take the hint of me not posting for an hour after stating "I'll post my case tommorrow".

And, you have not been screaming not to vote me. You've done the exact opposite by voting me.

This is a prime example of many Ircher posts. He reasons himself out of having to actually defend or make any kind of analysis.

[Boonskiies]

Oh, and I don't like zeroing in on a single person; I always keep my options open unless I know for a fact someone is scum.

This is just to excuse him trying to get something started.

[Boonskiies]

3. I've convinced myself, but I'll nail you tommorrow. I still think that comment about ai's reads is enough to consider you scum tbh. But, I'll write something substandial tommorrow.

What is the point of that? Why focus elsewhere if this is the case.

[Boonskiies]

I am suggesting PL Pisskop.

He isn't contributing much and refuses to be civil or make decent, constructive posts. Instead, he keeps trolling everyone and making the game unpleasant. If he doesn't get replaced, I strongly sugges Policy Lynching him.

Don't consider PL without any information coming out of it. Like, what would the point of PL be in this case? We would get absolutely no information, we would be down another townie in the night phase, possibly a PR. This does nothing but help scum, especially at that point in the day.

[AxleGreaser]

@GoldenRobster
@kaiser
Hi,
FYI: (re ras and heat)

How/why did Raskolnikov have a town-read of Heat by post 194?

its little hard to notice but 391 393 394 clarify where it came from a bit.
He thought 162 was good "

cuz I really liked her post on PK and Ircher which I was 100% on.

"
I cant really see how, but don't have a question that progresses things further there. It feels odd and that post doe not stand out to me, and i dotn see how it can, but then the ones that stand out to me often wont to others.

[droog]

everything performer has said on this page is towny

Can you re-read the posts that made you say this, and tell me if anything has changed?
Performer has escaped my radar recently (he was previously a town-lean).[/quote

the catalyst\
was performer sneaking onto my wagon when he did

ill take another look at my 390 read

[droog]

Droog shows good early scumhunting, namely in 306 where he talks about his dislike of UTL's analysis pos

i think its odd that people liked that
maybe ill reexamine utl
im not opposed to that lynch today

[droog]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keyser - Prob. the most towny player overall in game so far. I will just put this out there that later, like D3 or so, I will strongly reevaluate my Keyser read if he's still alive.
Pisskop - He's finally contributed some very useful info. And again, his playstyle is not something that I think (most) scum can successfully pull off.

Leaning Town

Golden Robster - Cannot really elaborate here, more gut than anythng.

Neutral

Performer - Where'd you go? You stop participating! I liked your entraced, but you have not said much since then!
AI - @AI : Please stop acting like you are omnificent and answer people's questions. It makes you look like scum (which is a possibility), and it also indirectly make me look like scum cuz you keep defending me.
Axle - Ok I guess.

Leaning Scum

Droog - My read on him is getting weaker as I speak -- at least he participates
Massive - Stop being lazy and contribute
Heat - Considering my other reads....

Likely Scum

Boon - Claims all my posts are fluff yet refuses to prove it. If it really was that obvious then it would be easy to prove. No, I'm a good lynch target as I have suboptimal play, so all the scum decide to target me. Those who are voting me I strongly believe is not because I am very scummy, but rather, I play differently from others and that makes me a good target to frame for a lynch.
Ras - Still one of my top scum reads as he has not really participated ever since Droog replaced in. While right now I think Boon is prpb. at the top of my list (some reasons are prob. selfish), I would think he be the best lynch for D1. None of his behavior has been extremely towny, and he has been around the top of my list right now.
UTL - This guy is somewhat subtle. It's only after reconsidering the other things that people have said about his play that I'm makes me start to doubt his sincerity. Droog has gone down my list because he's active, and Heat, well, I think Heat is being a bit genuine compared to some other people in this game. I will have to keep a closer eye on this one.

I am fully aware I have a ton of neutral/scum reads. The only way that's changing if all these lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras) start contributing a lot more.

I offcially hate lurkers right now. It killed town last game I played, and it's killing me right now.

My most confident reads right now are {Ircher, Keyser, Pisskop, Ras}. The rest are either kinda participating (AI, Axle), close to being lurkers (Golden, UTL), or lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras). This excludes Droog, who I just have a weak read on, and Heat and Keyser who are VA.

@Game: PARTICIPATE

Like I stated above, imho, Ras would be the most logical lynch right now.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Ras

Really? See this everyone. He is legitimately going from one to another. My wagon started picking up steam, he went to it, based off of 'lurksack' reasoning. Now he's going to Ras, the current wagon. Come on. This actually gives town cred to Ras for me right now.

fair point
i want time on irchir

[droog]

but irchirs case on me wasnt convenient

[droog]

Don't consider PL without any information coming out of it. Like, what would the point of PL be in this case? We would get absolutely no information, we would be

down another townie in the night phase

,

?

[AxleGreaser]

Does anyone have any reads on perf
Besides me

That is a hard scum read

My early read, based on 14 (119 first bit) ( 241 The dismount) Looked Ok/fine.

I can kinda agree with your 390 that he looked town then.
He made a vote on you 498 that you didnt like.

In 514 You Says "hey can anyone tell me what this guys reads are." And while have an open updated reads list is what some people do, not everyone does.
When I look through the performer filter, I see him trying to find stuff out. If hes scum he trying to find stuff out. I dont see much banging square pegs in round holes.
So I can see where his reads came from, even if I disagreed with some of them.

is fine with lynching list at 511, includes boon(291), Droog(498), and AI (being responsive and not disagreeing with PKs question)

I am not finding unexplained shifts or reads that didnt seem like they evolved. I am seeing working stuff out.

[Dierfire]

Spoiler: Boon Mostly Ridiculous Case Against Me

highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.

You cannot believe something 100% unles you prove it. So go right ahead and prove that the majority of my posts are fluff.

1. Scum annoyed he's found out for a reason

he

thinks shouldn't be accurate. But alas, it is.

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keyser - Prob. the most towny player overall in game so far. I will just put this out there that later, like D3 or so, I will strongly reevaluate my Keyser read if he's still alive.
Pisskop - He's finally contributed some very useful info. And again, his playstyle is not something that I think (most) scum can successfully pull off.

Leaning Town

Golden Robster - Cannot really elaborate here, more gut than anythng.

Neutral

Performer - Where'd you go? You stop participating! I liked your entraced, but you have not said much since then!
AI - @AI : Please stop acting like you are omnificent and answer people's questions. It makes you look like scum (which is a possibility), and it also indirectly make me look like scum cuz you keep defending me.
Axle - Ok I guess.

Leaning Scum

Droog - My read on him is getting weaker as I speak -- at least he participates
Massive - Stop being lazy and contribute
Heat - Considering my other reads....

Likely Scum

Boon - Claims all my posts are fluff yet refuses to prove it. If it really was that obvious then it would be easy to prove. No, I'm a good lynch target as I have suboptimal play, so all the scum decide to target me. Those who are voting me I strongly believe is not because I am very scummy, but rather, I play differently from others and that makes me a good target to frame for a lynch.
Ras - Still one of my top scum reads as he has not really participated ever since Droog replaced in. While right now I think Boon is prpb. at the top of my list (some reasons are prob. selfish), I would think he be the best lynch for D1. None of his behavior has been extremely towny, and he has been around the top of my list right now.
UTL - This guy is somewhat subtle. It's only after reconsidering the other things that people have said about his play that I'm makes me start to doubt his sincerity. Droog has gone down my list because he's active, and Heat, well, I think Heat is being a bit genuine compared to some other people in this game. I will have to keep a closer eye on this one.

I am fully aware I have a ton of neutral/scum reads. The only way that's changing if all these lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras) start contributing a lot more.

I offcially hate lurkers right now. It killed town last game I played, and it's killing me right now.

My most confident reads right now are {Ircher, Keyser, Pisskop, Ras}. The rest are either kinda participating (AI, Axle), close to being lurkers (Golden, UTL), or lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras). This excludes Droog, who I just have a weak read on, and Heat and Keyser who are VA.

@Game: PARTICIPATE

Like I stated above, imho, Ras would be the most logical lynch right now.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Ras

2. Really? See this everyone. He is legitimately going from one to another. My wagon started picking up steam, he went to it, based off of 'lurksack' reasoning. Now he's going to Ras, the current wagon. Come on. This actually gives town cred to Ras for me right now.

Im awful confused why people think Im an easy lynch.

Its the way you play. Its different from the norm (so is mine it seems), so people dislike it. Anyway, other than a few early misunderstandings, I do think your playstyle is pretty effective.

3. What exactly is 'the norm'?

scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......

4. This is completely a


kind of post. This quote is exactly what Ircher is doing.

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle, Droog, Pisskop}

5. *yawn* Nothing really here, just annoying that he's in the middle of the pack. Also, he's buddying/WKing Heat/Keyser/Pisskop with this. He's been buddying the hell out of Pisskop.

{Ras, Droog, Heat} --> Mafia
{Boon} --> SK if there is one.

6. I honestly don't understand this. I'm being scum read as SERIAL KILLER? Because it was stated that I'm not having a mafia agenda, yet I'm still scum. -.-

Also, this wasn't the first time this was brought up; he just tagged up on it.

451 is just IioA.

Also, there is 3 scum; nothing wrong with being fine with multipl lynch canidates.

7. 'knows' there is 3 scum, and still start pushing for a SK lynch. I understand that it's easily assumed, but 3 mafia and a SK? Come on.

1. Well, besides voting, what else is there you can do. Voting Pisskop really wouldn't be a good idea imo at the time.
2. I justified myself, did I not? Also, 2 posts could mean a difference if there is a lot of communication in between the postsm

3. Ok, yes, my reads do tend to change quite a bit. The thing is, I am pretty comfortable with my current reads even if it doesn't sem like it.

Anyway, the main catalyst is when I reconsider things and possibilities. Games are dynamic, not static, so try to keep my reads the same way. As we get closer to the end, my reads will begin to narrow down.

I guess you do have a point here though.

@Droog
No, but I do expect you to take the hint of me not posting for an hour after stating "I'll post my case tommorrow".

And, you have not been screaming not to vote me. You've done the exact opposite by voting me.

8. This is a prime example of many Ircher posts. He reasons himself out of having to actually defend or make any kind of analysis.

Oh, and I don't like zeroing in on a single person; I always keep my options open unless I know for a fact someone is scum.

9. This is just to excuse him trying to get something started. 

3. I've convinced myself, but I'll nail you tommorrow. I still think that comment about ai's reads is enough to consider you scum tbh. But, I'll write something substandial tommorrow.

10. What is the point of that? Why focus elsewhere if this is the case.

I am suggesting PL Pisskop.

He isn't contributing much and refuses to be civil or make decent, constructive posts. Instead, he keeps trolling everyone and making the game unpleasant. If he doesn't get replaced, I strongly sugges Policy Lynching him.

11. Don't consider PL without any information coming out of it. Like, what would the point of PL be in this case? We would get absolutely no information, we would be down another townie in the night phase, possibly a PR. This does nothing but help scum, especially at that point in the day.

1. Actually, a good size of the game agreed that my posts were not neccessarily "fluff" at least not on first glance. So, it really wasn't as obvious as you supposed.

2. I'll have you know that's not true. Let me reread on this though. (Follow up in later post)

3. While everyone plays differently, a lot of players share common traits which is "the norm". It likes calling people normal; the current general meta is the norm. But, you just picked this just because, I see no reason for this to be interpreted as "fluff" (Not contributing any info, worthless)

4. Your such a fun killer.... I used ooc tags anyway.

5. Seriously! First of all, practically everyone *active* in the game townreads Keyser. So, just saying that I'm against a Keyser lynch should not be considered buddying/WK unless you want to accuse everyone in the game of doing so. Second of all, just because you don't want to lynch someone is not WK or buddying up.

I cannot understand you: either I get accused of changed my reads too much or I get accused of being to consistent in my reads.

6. Meh, that was earlier. One of the few valid points in your case I guess.

7. I don't comprehend. What's wrong with what I said?

8. No Response

9. No Comment

10. This makes no sense. Please elaborate.

11. I was a bit rash in the suggestion (it was at the top of my mind), but do you understand what a PL is, it doesn't seem like it. Also, you justed stated (in a matter-of-fact way) that Pisskop is town. I don't think a lot of people had strong townreads then, so scumslip.

What you seem to be doing is misrepping me.

If you are town, you might want to consider skimming D3 of the game in my sig, it might help you understand me better.

Fixed formatting of spoiler tags!

--Dier

[Ircher]

VOTE COUNT 1.07

Pisskop (3): Burning_Earth, AlwaysInnocent, Deus Asmoth
Raskolnikov (3): Ircher, Performer, Keyser Söze
AlwaysInnocent (2): Heat, pisskop
UpTooLate (1): lilac
Ircher (1): Raskolnikov

No Vote (3): UpTooLate, massive, AxleGreaser

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-01-20 12:00:00)

NOTES

Burning_Earth and lilac have not yet responded to prods.

Now that I think about it,

VOTE: Droog

VOTE COUNT 1.10

Raskolnikov (3): Performer, Keyser Söze, massive
Pisskop (3): AlwaysInnocent, Deus Asmoth, droog
AlwaysInnocent (2): Heat, pisskop
Ircher (1): Raskolnikov
droog (1): Ircher

No Vote (3): UpTooLate, AxleGreaser, Boonskiies

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-01-20 12:00:00)

NOTES

None

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keysör - He's V/LA and he had a great start

Leaning Town

Pisskop - His behavior is bound to attract unnecessary attn. Very suicidal as scum.
Performer - Nothing notably scummy about him. Seems to be trying.
Axle - I liked his early interactions. Maybe I'm mistaken, but he seems to have disappeared.

Neutral

AI - My gut says he town, yet he doesn't seem to be contributing a lot of content. His read lists at least are helpful.
Golden - Deus replaced out; haven't really seen much from this slot
Heat - I've seen good and bad things from him.

Leaning Scum

Massive - He needs to contribute a lot more. He doesn't seem engaged in the game.
UpTooLate - Also needs to contribute more. He seems more engaged than Massive tho.

Likely Scum

Ras - I like how he decides to stop contributing when a wagon was formed on him. I also strongly dislike his entrance.
Boon - He needs to contribute a lot more. His slot has already replaced once and he reminds me of Njac (who was scum) in Newbie 1666.
Droog - I was a bit more confident with my read earlier. Still think he's scum, very poor entrance imo, and seems to not execute his own advice. Still, he seems like he's trying, so I'll give him that.

AI disagrees with lynching Droog. I can see a possibility for Droog to be town, even with my doubts. So, I'm thinking that since Boon has decided to not contribute (at all) to our discussions, we should lynch Boon.

VOTE: Boon

VOTE COUNT 1.14

Raskolnikov (3):, Keyser Söze, massive, AxleGreaser
Ircher (3): Raskolnikov, UpTooLate, Boonskiies
droog (2): pisskop, Performer
Boonskiies (2): Ircher, AlwaysInnocent
Pisskop (1): Golden Robster
AlwaysInnocent (1): Heat

No Vote (1): droog

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-01-21 12:00:00)

NOTES

Prodding massive
Keyser on LA until 23 January
Heat on LA until 17 January

@Boon:

It's not really wagon hopping when you start the wagons. And fyi, mods always post VC's in order of when the wagon was formed, so if you cannot tell, I'm at the start of each wagon I've been on, including Ras's wagon. I'm not any more as I changed votes, but before you accuse someone of wagon hopping, get your facts straight.

[Boonskiies]

I know how vote counts work. I've been on site for two years, including modding several games. And, no, the only one I believe you're the first one on is mine, but you didn't start the push on it. In fact, I believe someone voted before you, but they have unvoted. You haven't had an original thought this game. You are taking other people's cases and expanding, which you are doing pretty well, but it's just scum agenda. Nothing personal, you just happened to roll a scum slot. When I replace in and come back from being inactive, I have an oddly insanely accurate scumdar. Side note, you lined this site on my birthday

[Ircher]

And, no, the only one I believe you're the first one on is mine, but you didn't start the push on it. In fact, I believe someone voted before you, but they have unvoted.

(Seriously, that's what you call ignorance).

[Ircher]

You haven't had an original thought this game. You are taking other people's cases and expanding, which you are doing pretty well, but it's just scum agenda.

This didn't hlp me last game,

BUT

:

Look on the flip side: What if I rolled town. Do you think its feasible or do you think I'm 99%+ scum?

Also, please define "original thought" as used in this context, as I'm pretty sure I don't agree with you on that part.

[Raskolnikov]

Finished moving. Expect way better levels of activity from now on. Answering all questions

"pisskop (lynch him anyways)" which is hilarious because he acts no better.

can you tell me some of pk's reads

also youre not on my list
because i dont have enough of you

Mmm, I assumed you wanted to "lynch him anyways" based on his behaviour earlier, not him lacking reads. That's what I meant by "you're no better".
Even so, it's not like has hasn't gave reads all game. He was pushing AI and later you, and gave his thought on ircher and I who were the other lead wagons. Aside from your scumreads and the other relevant wagons giving your reads on other people is sort of a luxury and some people hate readslists for lack of focus.

highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.

A slight exaggeration as I'd say he has some non-fluff, it just so happens that it's weak af policy and now lurker wagons instead of scumhunting. Unless that also counts as fluff, I'm not 100% on the definition.

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle,

Droog

, Pisskop}

I notice 2 players in here who are leaning scum for you (662), and not your townlean on golden robster. Can you explain why would you would be against lynching 2 of your scumleans over some of your neutral reads and a townlean?

Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

Heat I think is more town than UTL, but are any of these reads challenged or explained?

I'm going to flag this again:

I also don't like Ras. I've barely done anything to deserve a townread. It's come out way too quickly.

How/why did Raskolnikov have a town-read of Heat by post 194?

These were asked earlier and answered earlier (320 391). At this point that was a very long time ago, since then Heat's the same but UTL's more scummy. 440 and particularly the reasons she voted heat are garbage, scumreading someone who was V/LA for low content combined with a vague "my gut doesn't like her".

@Boon:

It's not really wagon hopping when you start the wagons. And fyi, mods always post VC's in order of when the wagon was formed, so if you cannot tell, I'm at the start of each wagon I've been on, including Ras's wagon. I'm not any more as I changed votes, but before you accuse someone of wagon hopping, get your facts straight.

Pretty sure that going from me to droog to boon to me again is some wagon hopping, particularly as you justify the latter 2 on low activity. The thing with voting people for low activity is you're pretty much admitting it's a shallow wagon and out of annoyance or to get them to post rather than alignment indicative reasoning. That's fine occasionally but not for the entirety of your play, and near the end of day 1 you should have something of substance by now.

Here's how I see what you've done this game.

voted me because you didn't like my vote on you for trying to encourage a PL on PK without being involved
voted droog because you didn't like him also not liking what you've done there, as well as him voting PK (which you try to paint as hypocritical but it really isn't)
voted boonskies for lurking and
voted me again for inactivity.

This is why I don't like you, in addition to being ok with the PL (and in 350 you say you started to townread PK but wouldn't mind postponing the PL for later which is hilarious). The most depth I saw from you was early in the game and since then you've actually put almost no critical thought into finding actual scum, and rather seem to settle for whatever's easy. Posting without scumhunting is called active lurking and it's worse than inactivity because I know you were here and aren't that invested whereas a lurker is often actually busy.

[Raskolnikov]

Though at this point I wonder if there's a chance he's just badtown.