Newbie 1676 | Hungarian Nóták | Endgame

[Some Random Mafia Player]

ehhh, i asked for it, but why hammer so early (its twilight im still alive)

[Some Random Mafia Player]

@Mod: you state 3 ppl arent voting, but list witch, kim, smudger, and curly.

@

AzoriusSenate

: Welcome!
I like your first post. Lean on information, but seems a legit effort. Interesting read on Bluebird. I'd interpreted her first post as noobtown indignated at being accused and overreacting, but it'd be interesting to see what she has to say for herself.

@

Some Random Mafia Player

:
I also liked your post, at first. Until I got to the end.
It has one

little

thing I don't understand: the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Your case on Bluebird follows on AzoriusSenate's and reinforces it, and most of your post is spent on it. So far, so good. Yet you vote on Kim, saying "havent seen towny things, bu have seen scummy things from this slot. Not the most scummy, but is second behind bluebird", though you only pointed to one post of his.

So, please enlighten me here. What's your case on Kim, and why vote him if he's not your strongest scumread?

As I stated, discussion lynch, and I mostly saw discussion on the ppl interacting with kim, not kim themself. That dident work though because due to doing that people discussed me for trying to start a discussion on kim instead of discussing kim because that was the whole point for the vote everyone sees as scummy in the first place.

Off topic: David Bowie. Rest in peace, man, and thank you for the music.

so your trying to tell me I shouldent try to find scum because its "not a town mindset?"

where do I say that? I am interested to understand why you would produce a read list so early in the game and from 3 pages of interaction? in addition what is your view on the thought is some minds that early read-lists can also be detrimental to a town player?

What I said was note aimed at you.

I would post an early read list because whats the problem with showing your thoughts early? I feel like this is opposed, due to kim doing it and suddenly getting branded scummy (which is not my reason) also addressed this seperately

and I would like you to explain how the second part makes any sense. When are showing your thoughts ever bad for town? if your not posting your thoughts, are we rving all day 1? I dont see it

And since I keep thinking of things. Another thing I want to point out was that I was not planning to stick with the lynch, so if I was bussing, why would I lead a lynch before hopping off the wagon? That would be scummy as fuck and get me lynch easily, then again, thats wifom. Now that i think of it, your assuming I am trying to avoid a bus (I think) if you are, how could I still be bussing? That would mean 3 scum. So do you thnik im bussing or avoiding a bus? Also,

belisaurus, I guess your right, but if you flipped scum I was suspicious of bluebird anyway, it wouldent have made much difference in my reads chart. I probably dident take into account the possibility of your flip coming first because im sure bluebird is dying first due to getting a d1 lynch (unless the sub turns it around)

Also, I am still unhappy smudge hasent really interacted with anyone. He asked me 2 questions, made a decent post, and thats kinda it. The other 13 have not been helpful. Doesn't change my stance on him much though.

witch, its page 3, theres not much to base off of does not contain much, its only page 4, page 3 at that time. The main thing is what Azorius said, which imo makes a lot of sense.

Once again, I could have just pmed my partner my reads if I was scum and just not post anything, since apparently it wouldent help me to do so since I would be branded scummy, so I dont see a reason for scum to post an early readlist. If I am town and doing that, why accuse me as scum when as scum, it doesent do anything but make me scummier to do so? Also, why is me posting a readlist scummy when hiplop did the same thing? Smudger, why are you complaining about my readslist, but not hiplops? (No, this is not a case on hiplop, this is just pointing out faulty logic in an argument, I dont see him as scummy for a readlist since I did the same.)

now that I think about it, What do you guys think about hiplop being the start of 2 wagons (me and belisarius) that both had faulty logic? I guess 1 is fine, but the fact that he started 2 seems scummy, altho I need to check his meta first

Just discussion points/addressing things directed at me.

I question how read lists are bad, if we arent sharing our reads, what are we doing?

I acknowledge that Azorius has pretty much answered this but as it is directed at me I will answer also: providing read list early can be used to manipulate the game later, in particular by scum if the list comes from a town player. you are scum and you see a town player reading you as town, how will you react? conversely as town and you see a player reading you as scum, how would you react and how could scum use that to manipulate the game?

Also, he has 13 useless posts, he made 1 post you agree with and you call him town for the 1 post and ignore the fact he made 13 useless posts?

and you have 14 posts, point out how those posts of mine that have questions in, which Curlynoodles seems to have missed, are useless?

have you questioned him on this? Belisarius is an experienced player, would you suspect him to have a reason for his actions? I often don't react to a vote that is placed on me, for varying reasons. if it is out of the blue then I consider it to see who else jumps onto the wagon, as it may well be a reaction test for other players. If it stays for a while and there is no explanation even after the voter continues posting in thread then of course I will speak up. As for a vote changing without explanation why does it make sense to you for it to be called out? I mean are there reasons someone might do this?

questions here for you curlynooodles...

What I said was note aimed at you

ok, but based on my comment and that of Azorius above do you understand why I questioned your read list. plus you seem defensive and sating a lot of "if I was scum" "is this scummy" etc... I actually find that scummy. That said you continue to make sense. and you are pushing so I lean town on you.

Your post 101 is hard to follow who you are responding to or questioning, can I ask that you do something along the lines of split each question to an individual into a separate post, and/or quote the post you are responding to then comment. or do as I have done here by linking the post. And finally you could bold the name of the person you are interacting with such as

@ Smudger

... thanks

I don't understand, so you acknowledge that you read my post (you said it was formatted badly) but you still try to accuse me of something that I clearly stated in the same post I dident do? I see no motive for a townie to do something like this, but I dont see why scum would do it, since it would be way too obvious. I would say the push came from scum because now that I think about it, theres no way he could have missed when I said I changed my stance on him if he says im pushing him, which I first stated in that post and probably where he got it from. If he got it from my near one liner, then how did he read the post to assume it was sloppy formatting? I cant think of any reason for this besides the fact that hes scum. Explanation needed.

Thoughts on SRMP?

when I began catching up I said this

That said you continue to make sense. and you are pushing so I lean town on you.

but now as I have reached the end of my catch up and read back, its clear he is skimming and

beginning to tunnel me based off

of not actually reading my posts.

for example his comment about me questioning him on his read list and not you, then obviously unaware of what being +4 gmt means. the thing is all those posts were one after the other in the thread... so why he would not see them is strange, I retract the town lean on him.

Take what I bolded in the qouted post, add this. The problem I have is that I clearly stated that he was null, and I point something out. he then proceeds to say in the bold that I tunneled him, but if you check I dident even scumread him and he knows that as he pointed out the bad formatting of my post (only figured out if he read it) so he knows I never stated I was tunneling him, but he says I was anyway. So lynch all liars and get him, he lied about the fact I was tunneling him when he knew otherwise.

Making sure this isent forgotten about, and yeah I was villy

[Some Random Mafia Player]

also: I played the way I normally played, then again compared to here everyone there probably sucks, but w/e.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.09 Látod édesanyám

This is a folk song, not a nóta, but it's pretty. Nóta is pop music from the 19th century/ early 20th century.

Látod édesanyám, látod édesanyám
Miért szültél a világra

Inkább dobtál volna, inkább dobtál volna
A zavaros Tiszába

Tisza vize vitt volna a jeges Dunába
Hogy ne lettem volna, bár ne lettem volna
Senki megunt babája

Nincs már páros csillag, nincs már páros csillag
Mind lehullott a földre

Nincsen hű szeretőm, nincs már hű szeretőm
Mind elhagyott örökre

Ha elhagyott, nem búsulok, elment örökre
Még a síromban is, még a föld alatt is
Csak ő jár az eszembe


You see mother, you see mother
Why did you birth me into the world?

You should have thrown me, you should have thrown me
into the muddy Tisza River.

The Tisza water would have carried me to the icy Danube.
So that I would not have been, at least I would not have been
Nobody's discarded lover

There's no more paired star, there's no more paired star
They all fell to the ground

I have no loyal lover, I have no loyal lover
They all left forever

If they left, I don't sorrow, they left forever
Even in the grave, even under the ground
Only s/he is in my thoughts.

lynching

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or no lynch.

Some Random Mafia Player

(L-0): Smudger, Witch_Hunter, MrCurlyNoodles, hiplop, AzoriusSenate

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Smudger

(L-3): Some Random Mafia Player, Bluebird

Kim

(L-4): Belisarius

Not voting

(1): Kim,

AzoriusSenate, hiplop

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(expired on 2016-01-20 14:00:00)

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[Plotinus]

A vén cigány

Zölderdő mélyén, kispatak szélén, párjával csendesen élt egy cigány.
Vén öreg ember nótája nem kell, senkinek nem kell a nótája már.
Szép tavasz járja, zöld a fa ága kisgalamb vígan turbékolt a fán.
Ősz feje kábul a szíve kitárul, párjához így szól a rokkant cigány.

“Hol van a hegedüm párom? Tavasszal minden vidám.
Városba elmegyek máma, én az öreg cigány.”

“Egyszer még had muzsikáljak, szívemből úgy igazán.
Szeretném elmuzsikálni, él még a vén cigány.
Öreg cigány, szegény cigány.”

És a vén ember eltipeg csendben, hóna alatt a kopott hegedü.
Alig bír járni lábain állni, mégis szívében ott él a derü.
Városban érve fáradtan tér be egy csillogó fényes terem ajtaján,
Vére fellobban a szíve megdobban, középre tipeg a rokkant cigány.

“Nagyságos úraim kérem, nem tudom ismernek-e még.
Könyörgöm de sokat húztam, valaha régesrég,”

“Egyszer még had muzsikáljak, szívemből úgy igazán.
Szeretném elmuzsikálni, él még a vén cigány,
Öreg cigány, szegény cigány.”

Csend lett egy percig, így szólt az egyik, “Jóuraim ma mulatunk ugye?”
“Nyissanak ajtót ezt a kis rajkót látni szeretném, repülni tud-e?”
Ugrik a pincér, pénzt kap a viccér, künn van az ember s kész a hatás,
Jó öreg párja már halva találja, beszól az ajtón, “Urak, jó mulatást!”

Nem muzsikál sohasem már, csöndes lett a vén cigány.
Alussza erdőben álmát, s vadgalamb búg a fán.
Öreg vén anyóka sírját, virággal diszíti már,
Galambok sírva dalolják, élt egyszer egy cigány,
Öreg cigány, szegény cigány.

Deep in a green forest next to a brook, there lived quietly a Roma with his wife.
Nobody is interested in this old man’s music anymore.
Spring time hits the forest as the trees turn green and a dove purrs on a branch.
His greying head is intoxicated with the springtime, and his heart opens up as he calls out to his wife:

“Where is my violin soul mate? At springtime the whole world is happy.
Today I’ll go to the city, I the old Roma.”

“Let me play just one more time from the bottom of my heart.
I want to put in to music that the old Roma is still alive.
Old Roma, poor Roma”

So the old man toddles away quietly with the frayed violin under his arm.
He can hardly walk or stand, but in his heart there is happiness.
He gets to the city and wearily steps in through a shiny and sparkling venue’s door.
His blood sparks and his heart speeds up as he slowly toddles to the centre.

“Monsignors please, I don’t know if you all remember me.
But, I used to play all the time, a long-long time ago.”

“Let me play just one more time from the bottom of my heart.
I want to put in to music that the old Roma is still alive.
Old Roma, poor Roma”

It got quiet for a minute and one of them said: “Gentlemen we’re here to be entertained, right?”
“Open a door and let me see if this old man can fly?”
The waiter jumps, he gets money for the joke and the old man hits the pavement.
His wife finds him dead, looks inside and says: “Gentlemen, have a good time.”

He never plays anymore, the old Roma is quiet now.
He is dreaming his dreams as a dove purrs on the branch.
The old woman decorates his grave with flowers.
Doves cry the song: “Once there was a Roma,
Old Roma, poor Roma.”

---

Some Random Mafia Player

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Vanilla Townie.

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(expired on 2016-01-18 09:00:00).

[Marquis]

Hiii! Backup mod here. Nothing's wrong; I just forgot to make a post here for egosearch purposes.

carry on :]

[Plotinus]

Az én anyámnak nincs selyem ruhája

Az én anyámnak nincs selyemruhája,
Az én anyámnak nem is állna jól.
Sötét fejkendő az ékesség nála,
Filléres boltban vette valahol.

Az én anyámon nincsen semmi ékszer,
A könny a gyémánt, mely szemén ragyog.
Mert ő is érzi, hogy én nagyon régen
Oly boldogtalan szerelmes vagyok.

Az én anyám egy oly egyszerű asszony,
Sohasem tudja, mi az új divat.
Az éjszakákat sorra átvirrasztom.
S ha szívem fáj, csendesen megsirat.

Az én anyámnak, hogyha szárnya volna,
Lehozna nékem minden csillagot.
Az én anyám a megtestesült jóság,
S én hozzá néha mégis rossz vagyok.

Az én anyámtól engedelmet kérek,
Hogy így szólítom: drága jó anyám;
Mert ennyi sok jót, ennyi drága szépet
Én nem is érdemelnék meg talán.

Az én anyám a dolgos két kezével
Megsímogatja fáradt homlokom,
Én hálatelten nézek két szemébe
S a gyémántkönnyeit lecsókolom.

My mother doesn't have a silk dress,
It wouldn't really look good on her.
A black headscarf is her decoration,
She bought it somewhere in a dime store.

My mother doesn't wear any jewellery,
Tears are the diamonds, which shine in her eyes.
Because she also feels that for a long time
I am so unhappily in love.

My mother is a simple woman,
She never knows what the latest fashion is.
I hold vigil each night.
And if my heart hurts, she quietly mourns me.

My mother, if she had wings,
Would bring down all the stars for me.
My mother is the embodiment of goodness,
And towards her still I am sometimes bad.

I ask my mother's permission,
To call her: dear good mother;
Because this much good, this much dear beauty
I don't deserve it really perhaps.

My mother with her hardworking hands
Smooths my tired forehead,
And I look gratefully into her eyes
And kiss her diamond tears.

---

hiplop

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Vanilla Townie.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.00 Bementem a patikába

Bementem a patikába szombat este, zárás után titokba,
Megkértem a patikárust, fesse ki a két orcámat pirosra,
Olyan huncut kenceficét keverjen, aki rámnéz lélegzeni se merjen,
Minden legényt egyenest a harmadnapos forró hideg kileljen.

Bementem a patikába, azon módon, másnap este, vasárnap,
Megmondtam a patikusnak, tartsa meg a kenceficét magának!
Valami nagy hiba van a receptbe, alighanem visszafelé keverte,
Engem lel a forró hideg, ha a legény belenéz a szemembe.


I went into the pharmacy saturday evening after closing in secret,
I asked the pharmacist to paint both my cheeks red,
To mix up such a naughty makeup, that whoever looks at me can barely breathe,
Every lad should get the three-day fever and chills.

I went to the pharmacist, in the same way, the next evening, sunday,
I told the pharmacist to keep the makeup for themself!
There's some big mistake in the recipe, as if you stirred it backwards,
*I* get the fever and chills when the lad looks into my eyes.

lynching

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch or no lynch.

everybody

(L-4): nobody

Not voting

(7): AzoriusSenate, Belisarius, Bluebird, Kim, MrCurlyNoodles, Smudger, Witch_Hunter

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(expired on 2016-02-01 14:00:00)

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[Belisarius]

FMPOV, nothing has changed since Yesterday. I can't pull any useful information from the SRMP lynch since it was basically unanimous.

I still want to lynch either Kim or Bluebird, and my brain's still being an asshole about letting me remember what it was that made me so sure Kim's scum.

[Witch_Hunter]

Unfortunately, SRMP's attitude at L-1 was so weirdly erratic and defeatist there wasn't much of a choice. Had he been left alive, would anyone have been able to believe anything he said? Or would we spend most of Day 2 discussing whether to lynch him, same as yesterday?

Now, hiplop's fate deserves some consideration. As the IC, he was

ipso facto

a target for scum. But would he have been killed if his reads were completely off-target? If that were the case, scum'd probably be better off leaving him alive and killing someone closer to finding scum, a more immediately dangerous player. Checking his reads more carefully is worth at least a try.

Reads right now for those viewers at home
Town
Witch
Kim
Noodles
AzoriiiousSenate

Null
Smudge
Belisarius
(Cmon SE's, get more active )

Scum
Bluebird
Some Random Mafia Player - Seriously, this is not a town mindset

SRMP flipped town, so that leaves Bluebird.

Personally, I didn't see much of a case on her yesterday - her defensiveness looked indignated town. Lurking, maybe? A possible scumtell, but not that strong without other clues.

@

People who scumread Bluebird yesterday

: Now we know SRMP was town, thus no SRMP-Bluebird team. Does this change your read on her?

[AzoriusSenate]

FMPOV, nothing has changed since Yesterday. I can't pull any useful information from the SRMP lynch since it was basically unanimous.

I still want to lynch either Kim or Bluebird, and my brain's still being an asshole about letting me remember what it was that made me so sure Kim's scum.

This post seems kind of lazy. Could you elaborate on your reads more?

[AzoriusSenate]

Unfortunately, SRMP's attitude at L-1 was so weirdly erratic and defeatist there wasn't much of a choice. Had he been left alive, would anyone have been able to believe anything he said? Or would we spend most of Day 2 discussing whether to lynch him, same as yesterday?

Now, hiplop's fate deserves some consideration. As the IC, he was

ipso facto

a target for scum. But would he have been killed if his reads were completely off-target? If that were the case, scum'd probably be better off leaving him alive and killing someone closer to finding scum, a more immediately dangerous player. Checking his reads more carefully is worth at least a try.

Reads right now for those viewers at home
Town
Witch
Kim
Noodles
AzoriiiousSenate

Null
Smudge
Belisarius
(Cmon SE's, get more active )

Scum
Bluebird
Some Random Mafia Player - Seriously, this is not a town mindset

SRMP flipped town, so that leaves Bluebird.

Personally, I didn't see much of a case on her yesterday - her defensiveness looked indignated town. Lurking, maybe? A possible scumtell, but not that strong without other clues.

@

People who scumread Bluebird yesterday

: Now we know SRMP was town, thus no SRMP-Bluebird team. Does this change your read on her?

I'm extremely upset that he was town but there is nothing we can do about that right now. As you are saying here I think he would always be a question mark if he was not lynched there so I think it was best for town to follow through on someone. Now we can dissect the vote logic and hopefully get a hit today.

[AzoriusSenate]

Unfortunately, SRMP's attitude at L-1 was so weirdly erratic and defeatist there wasn't much of a choice. Had he been left alive, would anyone have been able to believe anything he said? Or would we spend most of Day 2 discussing whether to lynch him, same as yesterday?

Now, hiplop's fate deserves some consideration. As the IC, he was

ipso facto

a target for scum. But would he have been killed if his reads were completely off-target? If that were the case, scum'd probably be better off leaving him alive and killing someone closer to finding scum, a more immediately dangerous player. Checking his reads more carefully is worth at least a try.

Reads right now for those viewers at home
Town
Witch
Kim
Noodles
AzoriiiousSenate

Null
Smudge
Belisarius
(Cmon SE's, get more active )

Scum
Bluebird
Some Random Mafia Player - Seriously, this is not a town mindset

SRMP flipped town, so that leaves Bluebird.

Personally, I didn't see much of a case on her yesterday - her defensiveness looked indignated town. Lurking, maybe? A possible scumtell, but not that strong without other clues.

@

People who scumread Bluebird yesterday

: Now we know SRMP was town, thus no SRMP-Bluebird team. Does this change your read on her?

I'm extremely upset that he was town but there is nothing we can do about that right now. As you are saying here I think he would always be a question mark if he was not lynched there so I think it was best for town to follow through on someone. Now we can dissect the vote logic and hopefully get a hit today.

My FoS on Bluebird yesterday was a very early read. I can't ride it into D2 for the most part. I'm going to reevaluate and I encourage everyone else to do so.

[Kim]

Question for most anybody on the SMRP wagon: Did you find their posts about readlists (94, 98, the first couple of paragraphs of 101, 104, and 106) suspicious?

[AzoriusSenate]

Question for most anybody on the SMRP wagon: Did you find their posts about readlists (94, 98, the first couple of paragraphs of 101, 104, and 106) suspicious?

No I found that towny.

[Witch_Hunter]

Question for most anybody on the SMRP wagon: Did you find their posts about readlists (94, 98, the first couple of paragraphs of 101, 104, and 106) suspicious?

It depends. The reads themselves I disagreed with, and at the time believed it was too early to have an opinion about

everyone

.

But the act of posting a readlist? That seemed town, that's why I asked for people's opinions about it (his 104), (my 105). It intrigued me, this town behavior coming from a scummy player.

[Belisarius]

FMPOV, nothing has changed since Yesterday. I can't pull any useful information from the SRMP lynch since it was basically unanimous.

I still want to lynch either Kim or Bluebird, and my brain's still being an asshole about letting me remember what it was that made me so sure Kim's scum.

This post seems kind of lazy. Could you elaborate on your reads more?

Nothing complex; 6 non-me players - two townreads (Witch and Smudger) = a lynch pool of four. Of those four, one is a scumread, two are null, and one is Bluebird. Her defensive-looking response to my RVS vote is quite possibly the shittest case in the universe, but there are two scum alive, so I need at least two in my lynch pool. Yes, I'd like to have something better to go on, but I haven't got that, so I move on with what I've got.

[Smudger]

SRMP played terribly, he was given the chance to try to explain himself better. It was hard trying to deal with what he was say as he went OTT with the quote Wall posts. Had he taken to time to actually answer questions posed to him instead of the reactions he gave then things may have been different. But the point that he gave up was for me the clincher. When a player gives up like that you are in two minds as to whether they are scum who cant formulate a good defense or town who are super irritated. The fact that he is a new player also compounds the issue, in my mind at least, as to which he was. I'm not happy at all with his play or the fact we lynched town because of his play, but it happened.

With regard to the question about read lists from Kim, the answer to the quoted posts are his POV with regard to the existence of read lists early in the game, and I would believe his way of putting across his POV, so no I found none of that overtly scummy. But that did not clinch it for me with regard to the topic what was a question in my mind and one that lead me to be suspicious of him was the way he reacted to my comment on read lists in a overly defensive manner. At first he misses the fact that I had in fact only question Hiplop on his read list and merely made an observation about his. He then, after seemingly upset that I had questioned him about his read list post, states that he thought it was just a random comment at the time. If he thought that why was he so defensive was the question in my mind.

I did some reading back and was interested in Bluebirds FOS/scum read on me, for obvious reasons,

@Bluebird

please state the reason for your FOS/scum read.

other things I picked up I will get to shortly and I have a fairly strong feeling for who our scum are

[Smudger]

I just reread that, sorry its early in the morning and my composition abilities seem to be sorely amiss...

[Bluebird]

@Bluebird

please state the reason for your FOS/scum read

As I have stated earlier, I scumread you because your stats indicate that you subbed out of every game that you were town, one entry notwithstanding. Also,

your

conversation with SRMP was what convinced us to lynch.

[MrCurlyNoodles]

Question for most anybody on the SMRP wagon: Did you find their posts about readlists (94, 98, the first couple of paragraphs of 101, 104, and 106) suspicious?

I think I already made my opinion on early read lists pretty clear when we were having that whole conversation but in case I didn't the TL;DR is: I can see how they help town, I can see how they help scum and they were personally helpful cause they gave me a better understanding of how people were going about this game. If you want more on that I did have at least one full post earlier In terms of SRMP in particular I didn't think what he was saying in that conversation was necessarily scummy but they way he went about pretty much everything definitely was.

I am curious about why we lynched so early when we could have probably still used the rest of the day? Maybe figured out more about who's scum so we weren't starting D2 not much farther in than we started D1?

@AzoriusSenate

why hammer so early?

[Smudger]

As I have stated earlier, I scumread you because your stats indicate that you subbed out of every game that you were town, one entry notwithstanding. Also, your conversation with SRMP was what convinced us to lynch.

do you know why I subbed out of those games? no you don't. I had a real life issue that required me to sub out of all of them at the same time, go check you will see it all happened basically on the same day.

honestly you think thats a scum read do you?

as for my conversation with SRMP, you didn't vote him, so I didn't convince you did?

[Smudger]

I am curious about why we lynched so early when we could have probably still used the rest of the day? Maybe figured out more about who's scum so we weren't starting D2 not much farther in than we started D1?

don't answer this in detail, but did you learn anything from what there was of D1? have you read back and noted anything that stood out?

[Witch_Hunter]

@Bluebird

please state the reason for your FOS/scum read

As I have stated earlier, I scumread you because your stats indicate that you subbed out of every game that you were town, one entry notwithstanding. Also,

your

conversation with SRMP was what convinced us to lynch.

@

Bluebird

: Let me check one thing here - are you just talking about yesterday, or do you still scumread Smudger right now?

[Smudger]

@ Kim,

now that SRMP has flipped town what do you think? considering you didn't consider him scum.....

and if you didn't think he was scum who did you think was scum at the time, or still think is scum? considering you did not have a vote in place and you really only voted twice, once in RVS for me and once for Hiplop?