Open 620: Duck Duck Goose Game Over, Mafia Victory

[RadiantalyFarrar3]

That literally makes no sense since Mathilda is probably one of the people I most respect in this lobby and I'm also pretty sure it's town.

Explain to me why you interpret that as me telling her to shut up.

Explain to me why you're telling someone you're claiming to scumread to 'help town', and by doing what exactly?

And this follow orders thing is a joke.

[Egg]

Ok, reading Day 1. Here are my notes/questions, sorted by Page:
Page 1:
Sharky gives off a slight nervous vibe. The not knowing anyone vote along with not saying anything else is what gives me that impression. However, one liners on Page 1 aren't uncommon and plenty of people have done it, so the very most I can say is if Sharky stays quiet, I'll revisit this. Looks like someone in the 3 headed hydra may have seen this as well.

Speaking of the 3 headed hydra, they'd get my first serious vote. Not for the "at the scummiest time" comment, but for another head's reaction to it: " Damnit Taly you're scumming up the slot." It looks like the hydra version of the Amished tell. The Amished tell, for anyone who doesn't know, is when someone replaces in and says something like "hey guys, the person I'm replacing was scummy and I'd probably lynch them if I didn't know they were town". This post looks like someone pretty much saying "Hey guys, Taly is scummy so listen to me instead". It's pretty much discrediting someone you share a Role PM with because you think you are townier so you want the attention on your posts, not theirs.

If I'm wrong about the hydra, Burning Earth's vote (before the post I'm talking about) is opportunistic as fuck. So, pretty solid Page 1. One of the hydra and Burn is probably scum and I have a slight suspicion on Sharky.

Page 2:
I like Burn making the point about hydras being able to say their other heads suck. Shows he is thinking along the same lines as me. I'm definitely leaning town on him and scum on the hydra. Especially after the hydra tries to twist his vote to make it look like policy.

If Johnny/Radiant/Taly is town, concvex can be scummier than Burn, actually. That vote looked lazy as fuck. Guys, make better votes. I'm starting to doubt my only real scum read now. The smilie only post is redeeming though. It feels relaxed.

Wow, so Johnny actually meant that he's not signing because he doesn't want to forget at a scummy time. I thought it was just an offhand light hearted comment, but when he revisits, it shows that he actually meant it. That's pretty blatantly scummy. Maybe I'm seriously misreading though, because I notice they didn't end up lynched somehow. I'll keep reading...

Newbie is way too self conscious. Comes in with town reads on people who haven't done much yet, no scum reads, and a pre-emptive defense for lurking on Page 2. Did I really find two scum in the first two pages?

Something's logic is bad because it assumes everyone's alignment is obvious all the time, but it shows gnuine intent. Also, I'm gonna steal your abbreviation for RF3 from now on.

Taly's comment about RC doing "RC things" gives off more hydra Amished vibes.

Omg Newbie's RF3 vote. These votes all suck. Maybe this is how RF3 survived Day 1? By the way, I'm doubting I found two scum. If Newbie is scum, this opportunism isn't on a buddy. It's one or the other just like with Burn.

Page 3:
Ok, I like Sharky now.

Newbie, do you remember who you were talking about in Post 51?

Concvex's "I agree my vote is weak" post without an unvote is pretty bad. I seriously can't decide what is worse between RF3's play and the wagon on RF3. Hopefully it will be more clear later on, but I go back and forth every time I see a RF3 post or a vote on RF3.

Taly, I'm looking at Post 53. When did Newbie OMGUS vote anyone? I actually like the rest of this post though. If you are town, I agree with your reads (Newbie and concvex scum, Something and Sharky town).

This Taly vs Newbie reaffirms my belief that exactly one of these two is scum. Leaning Newbie now, but not very confident in that.

I'm frustrated already trying to get a read on Burn. His concvex vote is another opportunistic one, but it's on a scummy player again. Basically, I think Burn is scummy but his being scum relies on RF3 and cocnvex being town. So pretty much, Newbie and concvex could be scum together, but if concvex is town, burn could be scum. However, RF3 is scum only if all three of those are town. Wtf did I sign up for here? So along with Something and Sharky being town, those are my reads right now. Shitty, I know, because so much relies on flips that we don't have yet.

There's Newbie again with the pre-emptive defense ("sorry if this is a stupid reason"). Newbie is probably my strongest scum read right now. And if I'm right, RF3 would be town and my next strongest scum. Reads would be exactly one of cocnvex/Burn. No clue who the third would be yet. Maybe Mathilda if Burn is the second, but I can't see Newbie coming in with town reads on her buddies and nothing else in that first content post, so Newbie/Concvex/Mathilda is probably out as a possible team too. I feel so scatter brained lol.

Page 4:
So Mathilda posts three paragraphs about Newbie looking experienced, but I can't figure out her read on Newbie. And nothing about anyone else. I don't like this.

"Scumming up the slot" being some sort of inside joke explains that. 180ing this early is weird, but I think I'm town reading RF3 now. My scum reads are more simple now. It's Newbie, Mathilda, and Burn or concvex in that order.

Post 80-Page 8:
This is where I had a bunch of stuff that got eaten on me and I can't get the motivation to do it over again. But to summarize, a wagon popped up on Concvex. Newbie and Burn placed shitty votes there and then started fighting each other. And now I'm pretty positive that Newbie or Burn is scum, leaning Burn after their arguement.

Page 9:
Mathilda, what changed in your reread that made you unvote Something Pip and townread them?

I've liked Something Pip so far, but Post 202 is kind of ugly. It seems rare, unlikely, and nearly impossible for a hydra to only disagree on one read. The exception is if they have one dominant head and the other is just agreeing because they feel the dominant head is a better player, but the reads being fake explains it too. Post 212 makes me wonder if this is an overcorrection for dissonance. Also, "policy lynch at some point"? Not Day 1? Then when?

Concvex is L-2 at this point. I could live with that based on his play, but looking at the wagon he's probably town.

RC's 211 almost looks like an excuse to make a lazy vote later. Can my town reads stop being scummy this page?

Page 10:
I hope droog doesn't play the same way he did his catchup. Considering he didn't get lynched, I doubt it.
Ok, yep, there's some real stuff. And a good point about Mathilda joining in on RF3 pressure without voting. I'd like the rest of those reads explained though because they are way off from mine.

I actually like Burn telling droog his reads suck after Burn was listed as a town read. Shows that he doesn't care if he upsets a guy that is townreading him. Doesn't outweigh earlier scummy stuff but it's enough that I can go back to Newbie being scummier than Burn. But what I don't like is the lack of effort in convincing droog, so meh.

Mathilda's droog vote reeks of OMGUS and opportunism. Her only mention of concvex that I remember was a soft defense from sharky. Now, concvex gets wagoned, droog replaces and votes Mathilda, and suddenly Mathilda votes droog. And all that the post is is a defense from droog, a "contrived" accusation (based on what?), and an assertion that this is a confident read? But with flimsy reasoning at best and none at worst.

Page 11:
I find it funny how Mathilda thinks people want her lynched because it's easier, but look at her vote and the posting around it. Doesn't get much easier than what she's doing.

I don't like droog's style, but he definitely looks more town than Mathilda in this arguement.

I feel like Newbie is trying to find scum intent in everything droog says...

Holy shit, Taly's thoughts on Burn's reaction to droog's reads is identical to mine.

Page 12:
I like Shadow before, but he's fooled me before so consider him a weak town read.

Taly's frustration with being told he posts too much feels really genuine and town.

Page 13:
Ok, yeah, Shadow can be town now. I like him trying to figure out if town reads on him are genuine.

I actually don't have a problem with any of the first three Lowell votes. I'm sure scum jumps on at some point though.

Page 14:
Shocker. Newbie decides Lowell could be scum.

Page 15:

Newbie, if Dom was scummy for more than lurking, why did you say you'd unvote if he was replaced?

<- Shadow asked this already and you said you'd give the replacement a chance. But why? If Dom did things to make you think he was scum, why would my play change those things?

Maybe it's because I saw Lowell's town flip already, but it feels like droog and Something Pip are trying to bully Newbie into voting Lowell. I understand Droog doing it because he was close to a lynch himself, but if Newbie is town I can see Something pip being scum.

Page 16:
Mathilda, I know this has nothing to do with the game, but if you want to ISO someone without finding one of their posts, go to the bottom of the page where it says "display posts by user" and select their name.

Mathilda "wouldn't be unhappy" with a Lowell lynch. Same comment Newbie made, basically. Can't wait to see what droog and Something pip have to say. (Didn't have to wait long lol. Their posts are consistent)

Hmm. How did I miss scorpius and RF3 voting Lowell? And Shadow's vote is fine. Lowell was town. Where the hell is the scum on this wagon? Could it really be Something Pip? Or was I too quick to call Karnage town? Scorpius could be scum, but it's hard to tell because he did jack shit.

Page 17:
Interesting. Lowell's points against Shadow are basically what I've seen of his scum meta, but I missed it last time until late in the game. I haven't played with town Shadow though. Hmm. And it looks like he ignored Lowell.

Newbie, when did Karnage become a scum read for you?

Karnage, why did you ask RC for his droog case? Was there a chance you'd be swayed? Did you think RF3 might be scum?

Something Pip, you said you could judge droog based on Lowell's flip. So now that we know Lowell was town, has your droog read changed?

Page 18:
I'm interested to see if RC followed up on impying that Something Pip is scum if Lowell is town.

Droog, is Karnage really THAT town or could you be confirmation biasing because he joined your Lowell wagon?

Page 19:
Mrtrow has a lot of town reads. Something pip, did you notice that when you said you agree with him "across the board"? I'm also torn on Mrtrow's reasoning for not hammering. If he's town, wanting reactions to his post is good. If he's scum, he might be worried about how a hammer would have looked there.

Page 20:
I don't get RC's town-boner for Mathilda.

I like Mrtrow's posting towards RF3, but I don't love it. Weak town read I guess.

Page 21:
Taly, since when is no one in your hydra townreading Lowell? Didn't one of you unvote him and say they never supported a lynch on him? And why is Burn town?

Mathilda insisting that droog and something pip are scum after the hammer after earlier saying a Lowell lynch was ok reminds me of Newbie 180ing on a non-commital Lowell scum read earlier. This would be an even bigger deal if Lowell had been scum, but I still don't like it. Feels like distancing from the wagon. And in Mathilda's case specifically, it feels like she knows Lowell was town.

RF3, what similarities do you see between the Lowell lynch and the two votes on Newbie to start the day? Are you suggesting that Newbie is an anti town lurker?

Page 22:
Mrtrow, what happened to your Newbie scum read? Why is Mathilda scummier than Newbie?

I agree with Shadow. Newbie's post where she votes droog is lacking words.

Page 23:
RC, that's a crap reason to vote Mrtrow.

I agree with Mrtrow. Voting someone for pushing a mislynch and deliberately being on a mislynch are the exact same thing. Mathilda saying she's doing the first but not the second is crap.

My current reads:
Scum:
Newbie
Mathilda

Scum if I'm wrong on my scum reads:
Burn
Something Pip

No strong read:
Karnage
Scorpius

Weak town:
Mrtrow
Shadow

Town:
RF3
Droog

Vote Newbie

If it comes down to Mathilda vs Something Pip, consider me on Mathilda.

Sorry that post was so long. I won't do that often.

[RadiantalyFarrar3]

All you do is call us scummy and say that we're doing scummy things.

Then we're top townread?

VOTE: Egg

[Egg]

You were scummy for like 3 pages. Then Taly started posting and things got explained. And Droog is probably my top town read, actually. You're not far behind though.

[MrTrow]

That literally makes no sense since Mathilda is probably one of the people I most respect in this lobby and I'm also pretty sure it's town.

Explain to me why you interpret that as me telling her to shut up.

Explain to me why you're telling someone you're claiming to scumread to 'help town', and by doing what exactly?

And this follow orders thing is a joke.

In short
I ask Mathilda to explain, you tell her not to: she complies
I ask Mathilda to explain, you tell me not to: she agrees and complies
I ask Mathilda to explain, you tell me not to: i'm currently awaiting her response
I see a pattern here.

Explain to me why you're telling someone you're claiming to scumread to 'help town', and by doing what exactly?

"help town": provide the info asked for, making yourself more readable
"follow orders": deny the town this info (because RF keeps insisting you do)
Just add some emphasis on how (continued) refusal will look.

Mrtrow, what happened to your Newbie scum read? Why is Mathilda scummier than Newbie?

It is still there, the self-conscious thing mostly. The 'i've made my case, now i'll vanish with no intent to push it' doesn't sit all that well either.
As for why Mathilda is worse: see above.
Not only was she told to let the Lowell lynch happen, she listened: repeatedly.
(And yes this does mean i suspect RF3 by association. A reread focused on your large 'must be town if RF3 is scum'-list, might be needed here)

There might also be a slight issue, of me overselling my intent to comply with Maths case, should she actually present it D1.

[Egg]

So is Newbie your second strongest scum read behind Mathilda?

[MrTrow]

Competing with RF3, but that case is mostly linked, so: yes

[shaddowez]

RF3

- Is your vote purely because you didn't feel Egg's reads list matched his reads on you during your follow up?

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- V/LA through Monday. Not sure how much access I'll have with the East coast storm.

[Egg]

Competing with RF3, but that case is mostly linked, so: yes

Ok

[Karnage]

Karnage, why did you ask RC for his droog case? Was there a chance you'd be swayed? Did you think RF3 might be scum?

I could have been swayed by a strong case but if RF3 ever made one i missed it. In fact, they just kinda blew me off. Prior to that I felt pretty good about them being town, since then I'm not so sure anymore.

[Egg]

That makes sense, but the timing made that question feel pretty out of place. You seemed committed to the Lowell wagon that Droog started at that point, so it seems weird that you were willing to listen to a case against droog. The last post I can find where you expressed a read on droog, you said he was "probably town". Do you still feel that way?

[Karnage]

That makes sense, but the timing made that question feel pretty out of place. You seemed committed to the Lowell wagon that Droog started at that point, so it seems weird that you were willing to listen to a case against droog. The last post I can find where you expressed a read on droog, you said he was "probably town". Do you still feel that way?

i think it was still a couple of days before the deadline so I dont see the issue with timing. I still think droog is probably town but at the time I had a stronger town read on RF3 so I was interested to hear their case.

[Egg]

It's not the deadline that makes the timing weird. It's the fact that you were townreading droog and voting Lowell with him. It makes your droog read seem a little less real. But I don't think there's anything left to ask to learn more about this.

[Marcrell]

Vote Count 2.1

Mathilda: Droog, MrTrow, Something Pip
Newbie: Karnage
Something Pip: shaddowez
Droog: Newbie
Egg: RadiantalyFarrar3

Still seeking replacement for Scorpious.

Prodding Burning_Earth

(expired on 2016-02-03 01:55:32)

[Something Pip]

A few things to Egg:
If you think I was trying to twist Newbie's arm into voting Lowell, it's because I was, since I thought they were scumbuddies.
Now that Lowell has flipped town, that means droog was actively pushing a mislynch his entire time in the game. If he seems to do a similar thing again that might be a red flag. For now I like him for town, though.
I'd feel more comfortable lynching Mathilda today, given that part of my scumread on Newbie was dependent on Lowell flipping scum (see above). Are you ok with that?
-the smart head

[Egg]

Well, there are a few ways to look at it. You could be town who was really sure Lowell was scum. Or you could be scum who really wanted a Lowell lynch. But now that I think about it, why would scum want Lowell lynched so badly? There wasn't really a counter wagon unless you count the fact that droog's slot was at L-1 before he replaced in and droog is pretty fucking town right now. So you being scum there not only relies on my scum reads being wrong, but on my biggest town read being scum as well. I know I've had some off games lately, but holy shit that would be bad. I think the idea of you being scum mostly stemmed from "there has to be scum on this lynch", or at least for me. But that thought came before I saw Newbie jump on and in that situation it's more likely that scum jump on lazily than push hard the way you did. So even if I'm wrong about Newbie, someone like Karnage makes sense too. Your early game was also really town so, *Shrug*.

Revised reads:
Scum:
Newbie
Mathilda

Maybe scum:
Karnage

Scum if I'm wrong on my scum reads:
Burn

No strong read:
Scorpius

Weak town:
Something Pip
Mrtrow
Shadow

Town:
RF3
Droog

Also, since it's not reflected on the vote count let's try this again:

Vote Newbie

[droog]

I'm willing to join egg
VOTE: newbie

My null town read
Has been eaten away by his weak case on me
(Call it omgus if you like)

And eggs case is good

[Newbie]

225-238 is all me
i called them both scummy and voted loweell
why do you only pick 2 posts and then suggest
that i was voting against my read?

Because it seemed it was leading to a Lowell vote but instead the vote ended up on Mathilda.

already explained
seemed to me that math didnt care
about the answer she got

How does it seem that she didn't care about the answer? Because of not voting? Why would she throw on a vote if there was an acceptable enough answer? This is completely flimsy.

291:

He then makes a case against Lowell once the Mathilda wagon goes nowhere.

He accuses Lowell of saying nothing about his reads and going after an easy target in Pip, but his townread (Dom) threw an opportunistic vote on pip 132. Note this is Dom's only read as well.

just a minut ago you were complaining
that i called loweell scummy and voted math
now i vote math and its still a problem for you

No. I saw a problem with your case on Lowell. It involved the things you were town reading Dom for.

263: When asked why Dom is a townread, he says he likes his entrance + gut read, but Dom has done what he accuses Lowell of, and to a worse extant.

i accused loweell of pushing lurkers
while actively lurking

dom disappeared completely after his burst
not comparable

But you claimed to read Dom as town after reading his entrance, which involved pushing a lurker and not doing crap else, which wasn't

any

better than Lowell at all.

???????

Karnage had agreed with all of your votes, and the post looked like buddying.

I'm willing to join egg
VOTE: newbie

My null town read
Has been eaten away by his weak case on me
(Call it omgus if you like)

And eggs case is good

So after reading the thread earlier, I was good enough to town read, but now that I'm voting you, you're hopping on the wagon because of someone else's case?

[Egg]

I feel so ignored

[Something Pip]

This whole thread feels ignored.
I'm totally fine with lynching Newbie or Mathilda. Consider me on whichever wagon takes off.
-the smart head

[Egg]

I meant the fact that Newbie posted in response to droog but didn't even acknowledge the fact that I voted her and said a bunch of stuff

[droog]

This whole thread feels ignored.
I'm totally fine with lynching Newbie or Mathilda. Consider me on whichever wagon takes off.
-the smart head

you dont want to push one?
take some agency

[droog]

How does it seem that she didn't care about the answer?

because she never acknowledged the answer

[droog]

which involved pushing a lurker and not doing crap else, which wasn't any better than Lowell at all.

they were different

loweell was a lurker who then voted my slot for lurking
dom had one burst of activty and then disappeared