Open 624 Fire and Ice - Fire Mafia Wins

[Something_Smart]

@Viva:
I think there was no need to meta him to find that it was weird. You're certainly not going to find that he always does it as scum but never as town, that's ridiculous.
I think your push was out of place and trying too hard to paint his behavior as scummy.
And of course it's NAI. What would scum gain from doing it?

[Viva La Gloria]

Why are you assuming that scum would only do scummy things intentionally?
Scum are not perfect town players. Scum screw up sometimes and do things that don't make sense.
Calling people out for RVSing on the first page and asking for scumreads when half the game has posted is an incredibly bizarre thing to do.
THE BEST EXPLANATION FOR IT IS THAT HE IS SCUM WHO IS NOT COMFORTABLE PRETENDING TO BE TOWN.
Why are you trying too hard to defend clearly scummy behaviour from Shinobi?

[Something_Smart]

You are trying too hard to attack NAI behavior. There are inconsistencies in your play. You have shown that Shinobi knows how to do RVS. So obviously, if he wanted to act normally, he could have. But then you're saying that he doesn't realize that's not normal?
I can't tell if you're scum already pushing someone for a bad reason or town who actually believes what you're saying. But for now I'm leaning toward the former.

[Viva La Gloria]

SS.
Shinobi asked me what my other scum reads when half the game hadn't posted and what had been said was all RVS.
How ELSE do I interpret it?

So obviously, if he wanted to act normally, he could have.

Why couldn't I be right and he could have slipped up and made a poor play while trying too hard to look town?
Everyone's played well as scum before. Why can't any scummy thing by Shinobi be written off as "oh obviously if he wanted to act towny he could have"?
Why is it not likely that Shinobi wanted to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it was an appropriate reaction to the game state?
If you're saying that that was a reaction test, what reactions was Shinobi looking for? Why hasn't he followed up on it?

[Shinobi]

SS.
Shinobi asked me what my other scum reads when half the game hadn't posted and what had been said was all RVS.
How ELSE do I interpret it?

So obviously, if he wanted to act normally, he could have.

Why couldn't I be right and he could have slipped up and made a poor play while trying too hard to look town?
Everyone's played well as scum before. Why can't any scummy thing by Shinobi be written off as "oh obviously if he wanted to act towny he could have"?
Why is it not likely that Shinobi wanted to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it was an appropriate reaction to the game state?
If you're saying that that was a reaction test, what reactions was Shinobi looking for? Why hasn't he followed up on it?

Like a person asking you for scumreads?
What have I not followed up on?

[texcat]

Day 1, Votecount 1

Viva La Gloria

(2): beeboy, Aristophanes

Shinobi

(2): Viva La Gloria, Supreme Overlord

SnarkySnowman

(1): Shinobi

Masquerade

(1): Something_Smart

ika

(1): Cobalting

Cobalting

(1): SnarkySnowman

Not Voting (5):

lilac, ika, BrightEyedFish, Masquerade, TheShadow,

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:00 am (Texas time)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-02-08 09:00:00)

[Something_Smart]

SS.
Shinobi asked me what my other scum reads when half the game hadn't posted and what had been said was all RVS.
How ELSE do I interpret it?

So obviously, if he wanted to act normally, he could have.

Why couldn't I be right and he could have slipped up and made a poor play while trying too hard to look town?
Everyone's played well as scum before. Why can't any scummy thing by Shinobi be written off as "oh obviously if he wanted to act towny he could have"?
Why is it not likely that Shinobi wanted to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it was an appropriate reaction to the game state?
If you're saying that that was a reaction test, what reactions was Shinobi looking for? Why hasn't he followed up on it?

I don't know why he did it. You don't know why he did it. You may be right, but you DON'T KNOW. Stop acting like you do.
And stop misrepresenting me. I didn't say that he always knows how to look town, but that he knows how to look town in RVS.
And by the way, the one trying to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it's an appropriate reaction to the game state is you, not him.

[Viva La Gloria]

SS.
Shinobi asked me what my other scum reads when half the game hadn't posted and what had been said was all RVS.
How ELSE do I interpret it?

So obviously, if he wanted to act normally, he could have.

Why couldn't I be right and he could have slipped up and made a poor play while trying too hard to look town?
Everyone's played well as scum before. Why can't any scummy thing by Shinobi be written off as "oh obviously if he wanted to act towny he could have"?
Why is it not likely that Shinobi wanted to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it was an appropriate reaction to the game state?
If you're saying that that was a reaction test, what reactions was Shinobi looking for? Why hasn't he followed up on it?

I don't know why he did it. You don't know why he did it. You may be right, but you DON'T KNOW. Stop acting like you do.
And stop misrepresenting me. I didn't say that he always knows how to look town, but that he knows how to look town in RVS.
And by the way, the one trying to present himself as trying hard to scumhunt before it's an appropriate reaction to the game state is you, not him.

I know how to look town in RVS, but if I screwed up in RVS it would still be a screw up.
I've seen plenty of experienced people do stupid stuff in RVS that nearly confirmed them, or quickhammer wagons in obvious wagons as scum, or jump on wagons in awful ways that get them lynches.
If you consistently write such things off as "OH THEY KNOW BETTER" when occam's razor says the screw up is scum, then you're not going to get there anymore.
I didn't claim to KNOW FOR A FACT Shinobi's scum. I said he's probably scum, and I'm pressuring him to make him respond in a way that would make his alignment clearer.
You are chainsaw defending him for no good reason; I'm not getting the dude speedlynched, I'm putting him under pressure.
If, as you claim, you don't specifically think that Shinobi is town, then you should be perfectly happy with me pushing ANY wagon to get the game moving.
And even if you did think he's town, well, town wagons still give info!

[beeboy]

All of these votes are bad, even by rvs standards.

In the off chance you aren't trying to get a reaction out of people what do you think an ideal RVS is?

[beeboy]

This is going to be a fun setup trying to find scum who are actively trying to find scum (literally just town intentions).

[TheShadow]

So this started before I even got my role pm...
VOTE: cobalting
I've played with both recently, and this doesn't read as their town game so far.

[Supreme Overlord]

This is going to be a fun setup trying to find scum who are actively trying to find scum (literally just town intentions).

I assume the difference will be scum are just looking for one scum team, while town are looking for both.

I'm not quite sure what that will look like - I guess those who have played multi-faction games before will point out specific tells as they come up.

[SnarkySnowman]

So this started before I even got my role pm...
VOTE: cobalting
I've played with both recently, and this doesn't read as their town game so far.

Agreed.

[Shinobi]

All of these votes are bad, even by rvs standards.

In the off chance you aren't trying to get a reaction out of people what do you think an ideal RVS is?

A short one where people push to get out of it ASAP.

This is going to be a fun setup trying to find scum who are actively trying to find scum (literally just town intentions).

Yeah. I only joined this game 'cuz texcat.

[beeboy]

A short one where people push to get out of it ASAP.

The only way I can see that happen is by people being pressured for playing incredibly poorly creating early discussion which is exactly what we did. Using that logic wouldn't this have been a good RVS stage.

[Aristophanes]

Ohey, Something Smart said what I was trying to articulate!
I like this guy!

[Aristophanes]

But still has RVS vote...

SS!
Vote with me!

[Shinobi]

A short one where people push to get out of it ASAP.

The only way I can see that happen is by people being pressured for playing incredibly poorly creating early discussion which is exactly what we did. Using that logic wouldn't this have been a good RVS stage.

Yeah, after the fact.

[SnarkySnowman]

Aristo! No!

[Aristophanes]

Aristo! No!

LMAO!
Well played XD

Snarky, what would you expect from Pontiac Pursuit at this point in the game?
What is different from their town game?
Same question to Shadow.

[Aristophanes]

Viva, why are you townreading Something Smart?
Cobalt ing, why are you scum reading them?

[Cobalting]

Smart gives me bad vibes with his NAI shit

meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta

-PC

[Cobalting]

{beeboy}
{Snarky Snowman, Aristophanes, TheShadow}
{ika}
{Something_Smart, Shinobi, Supreme Overlord}
{Viva la Gloria}

[Something_Smart]

Oh lol there's two SS's.
Aristo, do you think Viva is scum? Or do you just want to pressure him?
I don't think that logic was necessarily scum logic, but it was bad, so I'm okay with this.
VOTE: Viva

[beeboy]

Aristo, do you think Viva is scum? Or do you just want to pressure him?

This is an incredibly pointless question as he shouldn't need to answer that in this stage of the game.