Open 624 Fire and Ice - Fire Mafia Wins

[Viva La Gloria]

Actually I'm more interested in this I think.

VOTE: Cobalting

[Viva La Gloria]

Ranger's reads lists are utterly unexplained and strike me the wrong way.
Why don't you explain why you're thinking what you're saying?

[Supreme Overlord]

I don't have a lot of time, but
VOTE: Viva
What's with so much vote-switching?

If you don't want to switch, please explain why.

I agreed with most of Masquerade's post - more 'Shinobi is uncomfortable playing scum' than 'trying to avoid being suspected' though.

Cobalting, what did you mean by:

meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta

[Cobalting]

Was supposed to be like "meta schmeta".


I hate meta.

-pc

[Something_Smart]

Okay I really don't like Viva right now. I already explained a few of the reasons but there are even more now: calling Shinobi's page one play a slip, which is a great way to push a bad lynch without much evidence; thinking about NK's and LYLO on day 1; and moving his vote around without good reasons.

[Viva La Gloria]

Okay I really don't like Viva right now. I already explained a few of the reasons but there are even more now: calling Shinobi's page one play a slip, which is a great way to push a bad lynch without much evidence; thinking about NK's and LYLO on day 1; and moving his vote around without good reasons.

I didn't call it a slip, I called it a horrendous slip up. Two very different things!
I'm thinking about NKs and LyLo because I still think that Shinobi is scum but he's actively scumhunting so he can be an asset fighting the other team for now until we lynch him or he gets crosskilled later. And if he's town, well, saves a mislynch, but I doubt that at this point.
Same reason for my vote transitions; I've been going back and forth on whether or not I consider Shinobi a priority lynch and then Masq->Cobalt was brought about by how I feel about Ranger's read lists; they basically put all the players who've been put into the crossfire as likely to flip scum.

For what it's worth, I don't like you much either.

[Something_Smart]

Explain to me the difference between a slip and a slip up please?

[Viva La Gloria]

A slip up is a screw up or a blunder or a misplay; I think Shinobi misplayed on page 1 because he felt pressured as scum to try to look like he was scumhunting hard.
A slip is revealing some sort of secret that confirms alignment.

Shinobi did the former, not the latter.

[Something_Smart]

It sounds like the same thing. Or similar enough that it doesn't matter to me which one you called it.

[Viva La Gloria]

No, they're not.

sorry.

[beeboy]

I was fine with something_smart making a mistake thinking viva called it a slip that is a human error. It is a bit of a stretch to call it a wagon attempt but I am ok with that since I understand the logic. The inability to admit he made a mistake discredits the town intentions in his viva scum claim and not accepting an error is incredibly scummy

[beeboy]

VOTE: something_smart

[Something_Smart]

So a slip is something that reveals your alignment as scum.
A slip-

up

is where you make a mistake.
To reveal that you are scum is obviously a mistake. Therefore, a slip is a slip-up.
Scum want to conceal their alignments. Therefore, a slip-up made by scum is alignment-revealing, therefore it is a slip.
I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding you here.

Regardless of semantics, the one goal all alignments share is to avoid being lynched. One of the biggest mistakes any player can make (and certainly the biggest that applies to both alignments) is to allow themself to be lynched.
So your argument is, he did something that made him easier to lynch, therefore we should lynch him?

[beeboy]

A slip up is something people say in a regular day it is easy to just type that without thinking of terms it can be associated with. Avoiding being lynched isn't the #1 town concern.

That argument was never made you are trying to hard to divert attention away from yourself.

[Something_Smart]

You colossally slipped up on page 1 and the rest of your play has been an incredibly forced attempt to look like a good boy scumhunter.
Where do you think you get off asking people what their 'other townreads' are and criticizing RVS votes on the first page?
Riddle me this batman.

Okay I'm sorry I misunderstood this then. I thought Viva was pushing Shinobi based on his "colossal slip up".

[beeboy]

You didn't say that his push was scummy you said his choice of words was a great way to get a bad lunch with no evidence. Stop trying to change the situation. Viva by no means was using buzz words like you have claimed and your posts are becoming more and more desperate

[Aristophanes]

It sounds like masquerade's giant post follows the sort of thing you're talking about in yet you haven't commented on it. Why?

I don't know if you mean you on masquerade or masquerade on you.

For you on masquerade, I wouldn't call 2 votes and an opinion tunneling and making it easy on scum to fit in.

For masquerade on you, I don't see people voting you a problem the statement that you are trying to hard to look town is bad in the sense that there is no evidence to back that up which doesn't indicate scum just a lazy claim unless Masq can't follow up with evidence to support that claim. There is a difference between stealing ideas to fit in and having your own opinion on someone currently being pressured.

Beeboy/Masq scumteam? Cool!

VOTE: Beeboy

Viva, will you quit it with the vote jumping!
I already don't care where it lands because it has no weight.
You know how if you say a word too many times it starts to lose meaning? Yeah, that's what's happening with your vote.

I had a feeling Chevy Cobalt was Ford Ranger.
Unexplained lists =/= scum in this case.

A slip up is a screw up or a blunder or a misplay; I think Shinobi misplayed on page 1 because he felt pressured as scum to try to look like he was scumhunting hard.
A slip is revealing some sort of secret that confirms alignment.

Shinobi did the former, not the latter.

Slip = Scum revealing info accidentally/revealing themselves as scum.
Slip-up = any general mistake, misfooting, or bad play.
@Something Smart, not a hard concept.
It feeld like you're discrediting Viva right now. Why is that?
A slip is a slip-up, but a slip-up isn't a slip.

Yeah, I don't like Beeboy at all.

@Beeboy,
Is bullheadedness exclusively a scum trait?
Can town not be wrong yet insist they are right, or misunderstand a point and argue it fruitlessly?

[Aristophanes]

You colossally slipped up on page 1 and the rest of your play has been an incredibly forced attempt to look like a good boy scumhunter.
Where do you think you get off asking people what their 'other townreads' are and criticizing RVS votes on the first page?
Riddle me this batman.

Okay I'm sorry I misunderstood this then. I thought Viva was pushing Shinobi based on his "colossal slip up".

Colossal?
That's a stretch...

[texcat]

Day 1, Votecount 3

Cobalting

(3): SnarkySnowman, TheShadow, Viva La Gloria

Viva La Gloria

(2): Something_Smart, Supreme Overlord

Shinobi

(1): Masquerade

Masquerade

(1): Shinobi

ika

(1): Cobalting

Something_Smart

(1): beeboy

beeboy

(1): Aristophanes

Not Voting (3):

lilac, ika, BrightEyedFish

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or to no lynch.

Deadline

: Monday, February 8, 2016 9:00 am (Texas time)

Countdown to deadline

: (expired on 2016-02-08 09:00:00)

Notes:

I am seeking a replacement for lilac who never picked up her role PM.

[beeboy]

Why don't you like me?
It also is a scum trait because they are paranoid they will be wagoned if they make a false claim or contradict themselves so they would try to disprove it. Town is less concerned about looking town so they would rather move on with the game and admit to a simple mistake. Also something_smart is exaggerating a lot of statements and has tried to twist what I have said.

[beeboy]

Town can be wrong but it is a scum trait

[beeboy]

I meant yes town can refuse to be wrong but it is a scum trait lol

[Aristophanes]

Why don't you like me?
It also is a scum trait because they are paranoid they will be wagoned if they make a false claim or contradict themselves so they would try to disprove it. Town is less concerned about looking town so they would rather move on with the game and admit to a simple mistake. Also something_smart is exaggerating a lot of statements and has tried to twist what I have said.

So scum typically don't just buckle and agree with the other party to blend in, but rather stick by their incorrect assumption, making them more noticed and targeted?

All I'm saying is that it's not so black and white and I have seen both occur many times.

What makes Something Smart sticking to his guns scummy in this instance?

[Masquerade]

If Shinobi was trying to avoid being suspected, why would he enter in a provocative way rather than RVSing like normal?

It's not the way he entered but how he dealt with the questions that he got about it. To me it seems more like he wanted to look useful with his questions, rather than reaction testing. Trying to look town by getting us out ofo RVS asap. When he got called out on that his responses were awkward imo.

Plus, saying you look like you're trying to blend in?

Did I say that?

Shinobi gives me the feeling that he's trying to avoid being suspected. Which he's not doing a very good job at.

No, not at all.

I agreed with most of Masquerade's post - more 'Shinobi is uncomfortable playing scum' than 'trying to avoid being suspected' though.

Yeah that's what I'm trying to say.

I'm liking Beeboy for town and having a growing scumlean on Aristo.

[beeboy]

What makes Something Smart sticking to his guns scummy in this instance?

To start off the original push was incredibly forced saying the Vivo was trying to force a lynch using a buzz words. This is incredibly dramatic claim imo but it is understandable that someone would believe this.
Then Vivo explained his reasoning but something_smart refused to believe it which I already explained why I believed that was incredibly scummy behavior. Another thing is whether or not they disagree on what a slip-up is if Vivo think that a slip-up is incredibly different from a slip something_smart should have realized it wasn't a scum intent but rather a misunderstanding to he kept pushing.
(This occurred after I made the claim)
He then proceeded to try and twist my argument at the end of post 112 and in post 114. Which further discredits the town incentive in his original claim because he has been consistently exaggerating or twisting claims.