SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[DiamondSentinel]

Oh, and a thought that I had while reading: DS, why didn't you claim ascetic D1 again? It's...one of those things that's negative utility for town, and positive utility for scum. As such, town should pretty much always claim it before risking any of towns night actions get wasted, ESPECIALLY when they know people are suspicious of them.

-Cerb

I don't explain my plans to scum.

[Yosarian2]

yoyo I just want you to know that you freak me out.

I said towards the end of the day yesterday that CC looks suspicious. Not like I'm just sheeping you.

if you ever actually sheeped me in a game I wld faint

Lol.

I don't really "sheep" but I do often do try to join and support wagons that I like and that look town-led.

[Lowkey]

Lowell head here. I'm back. Promised I'd read if we survived the night, so I'll do so.

I'm getting townvibes from Kling's reaction to his wagon. Also I empathize completely with DGB, and also am more than a bit lost trying to figure out the mechanics-- though it's a safe bet that at least one or two of the folks with Big Exciting Roles (BERs) are scum. I haven't kept track of all the claims, but it defies belief that all the normally town roles are, in this case, town.

VOTE: drixx

Perhaps there's an obvious reason not to do this (and hindu can yell at me in the PT if needed), but I'm not seeing anything productive out of this role. His only action so far today was to pounce on kling's (admittedly ridiculous) tautology. Seems like low-hanging fruit. Other than him being the original MC (a fact he's milked, IMO, but doesn't clear him) I don't see what there is to like here.

~Lowell

Bruh. BRUH.

Unvote

Drixx is basically confirmed town.

mollie im here if you need to talk. I'm super busy now that school is back in regular full swing but I'm keeping up best I can.

[DiamondSentinel]

yoyo I just want you to know that you freak me out.

I said towards the end of the day yesterday that CC looks suspicious. Not like I'm just sheeping you.

if you ever actually sheeped me in a game I wld faint

Lol.

I don't really "sheep" but I do often do try to join and support wagons that I like and that look town-led.

So why were you on Max's wagon?

[DiamondSentinel]

I mean, it's great he flipped scum and all, but a scum who's powers are unlocked when he's lynched? That's SOOOO obviously a scum-lead wagon. Honestly, I find CooLDoG's much more town-led. Even though he flipped town, it gave scum a golden opportunity to point out that dangerous people were on a town wagon while they were on a scum one. I may not be the best at this, but even I can recognize just how scum benefits from yesterday's events.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

We've talked at length about why DS should flip scum. I don't think he's a town ascetic but a scum ascetic.

He's playing in a very selfish way and Sensei should have taken Yosarian into the party instead of him.

[Lowkey]

I mean, it's great he flipped scum and all, but a scum who's powers are unlocked when he's lynched? That's SOOOO obviously a scum-lead wagon. Honestly, I find CooLDoG's much more town-led. Even though he flipped town, it gave scum a golden opportunity to point out that dangerous people were on a town wagon while they were on a scum one. I may not be the best at this, but even I can recognize just how scum benefits from yesterday's events.

Please stop. You are not good at this game and working out alignments. Not being rude, just saying it how it is. The truth is brash. Max's wagon was town-initiated; I made the case for it and pushed it. Max campaigned directly against ABR

the entire day

and that's when ABR's suspicion of Max-scum started. 2407 and 2408 is where it all began.

Yeah, he probably got bussed by buddies; that doesn't mean he was a great idea to lynch or scum benefited in any way by losing a strongman(or w/e role goes through docs) and 5-time RB. Cooldog was a fairly easy read as town too and the general notion going around that he might not be a good idea was town-initiated too. Scum can jump on it, sure, but painting it as anything else is absurd. Just because the people in the party with you and confirmed town was on the wagon does not mean it was "much more town-led". Scum did not make a counterwagon to cooldog with their own buddy on purpose.

[Lowkey]

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

We've talked at length about why DS should flip scum. I don't think he's a town ascetic but a scum ascetic.

He's playing in a very selfish way and Sensei should have taken Yosarian into the party instead of him.

Explain why? I still think he's town tbh.

[DiamondSentinel]

I mean, it's great he flipped scum and all, but a scum who's powers are unlocked when he's lynched? That's SOOOO obviously a scum-lead wagon. Honestly, I find CooLDoG's much more town-led. Even though he flipped town, it gave scum a golden opportunity to point out that dangerous people were on a town wagon while they were on a scum one. I may not be the best at this, but even I can recognize just how scum benefits from yesterday's events.

Please stop. You are not good at this game and working out alignments. Not being rude, just saying it how it is. The truth is brash. Max's wagon was town-initiated; I made the case for it and pushed it. Max campaigned directly against ABR

the entire day

and that's when ABR's suspicion of Max-scum started. 2407 and 2408 is where it all began.

Yeah, he probably got bussed by buddies; that doesn't mean he was a great idea to lynch or scum benefited in any way by losing a strongman(or w/e role goes through docs) and 5-time RB. Cooldog was a fairly easy read as town too and the general notion going around that he might not be a good idea was town-initiated too. Scum can jump on it, sure, but painting it as anything else is absurd. Just because the people in the party with you and confirmed town was on the wagon does not mean it was "much more town-led". Scum did not make a counterwagon to cooldog with their own buddy on purpose.

The wagon had nothing to do with him dying. He died because someone killed him. Whether Vig or third party, I don't know.

Scum had no idea that they'd lose him, it seems. Or else they wouldn't have outed him.


And yes, I know I'm not the best, but how about you try listening to me for once. I know what I'm talking about here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

We've talked at length about why DS should flip scum. I don't think he's a town ascetic but a scum ascetic.

He's playing in a very selfish way and Sensei should have taken Yosarian into the party instead of him.

Explain why? I still think he's town tbh.

Yosarian had an authentic "the town is doomed" reaction.

When DS softclaimed the same day 1, it was suspicious but he could have been a PR.

With his ascetic claim, it no longer makes sense in context for him to have fakesoftclaimed.

If you look at his posts, he is ideologically opposed to doing just that.

Therefore, he's scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It seemed to me that he was hinting at vengeful townie. He later claims he was trying to draw night actions from scum...? It doesn't make sense. I don't even recall him speaking up when Max was asking for people to RB. His whole play is riddled with mental traps and inconsistencies. He's awkwardness should not be confused for towniness.

[DiamondSentinel]

HAHAHAHAHA

Oh, that's rich, Al. I love it. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone's said that, and ended up with a beautiful case of "Word-Eating Syndrome".

But regardless, I explained my soft-claim to the adventure PC, but not here. Because there's scum here. I will find out who, eventually.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I mean, it's great he flipped scum and all, but a scum who's powers are unlocked when he's lynched? That's SOOOO obviously a scum-lead wagon. Honestly, I find CooLDoG's much more town-led. Even though he flipped town, it gave scum a golden opportunity to point out that dangerous people were on a town wagon while they were on a scum one. I may not be the best at this, but even I can recognize just how scum benefits from yesterday's events.

Please stop. You are not good at this game and working out alignments. Not being rude, just saying it how it is. The truth is brash. Max's wagon was town-initiated; I made the case for it and pushed it. Max campaigned directly against ABR

the entire day

and that's when ABR's suspicion of Max-scum started. 2407 and 2408 is where it all began.

Yeah, he probably got bussed by buddies; that doesn't mean he was a great idea to lynch or scum benefited in any way by losing a strongman(or w/e role goes through docs) and 5-time RB. Cooldog was a fairly easy read as town too and the general notion going around that he might not be a good idea was town-initiated too. Scum can jump on it, sure, but painting it as anything else is absurd. Just because the people in the party with you and confirmed town was on the wagon does not mean it was "much more town-led".

Scum did not make a counterwagon to cooldog with their own buddy on purpose.

Seriously. There were so many other possible pushes that had received a decent amount of attention and votes earlier in the day(itle/sky/KC/flum) that really only had token voices raised against them. Unless those other options were ALL scum, the beginning of MP's wagon was *very* likely town driven. Unfortunately, that's only the first few names. After that point, there was the pressure to get the double lynch etc. going, so it greatly diminishes the value of those portions of the wagon as being indicative of town. ESPECIALLY considering nobody ever had any problem voting Max, everybody only raised concerns if they were being asked to vote CD.

DP: Correct me if I'm wrong(I super duper might be), but I think at least one of your heads was in favor of KC as town, or at least as someone that you'd be able to clearly classify later on. Was the willingness to vote KC/exasperation that she wasn't lynched yet indicative of dissonance, or have the two of you arrived at the conclusion that you believe KC is more likely scum than town?

-Cerb

pedit: I feel like it's more likely scum would have preferred to keep the 1x deathproof in reserve. As strong as 5x roleblock is, given the claims yesterday(alternating BP doctor, perma BP into perma deathproof, a double lynch enabler that's extremely likely town and about to become nearly impossible to kill), if scum wanted MP 's other abilities activated, it would have been for the strongman, not the RB...which begs the question, why does scum MP reveal his RB, and lie about the number of targets he can have? Maybe I'm overthinking this? I guess I need this question confirmed.

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

If he could have only done one, rather than both, him revealing the roleblock doesn't make sense in the case where they were deliberately attempting to get his powers activated, because it means they were activating said power for the sake of the roleblock, rather than the strongman, which doesn't seem as strong with the known claims? Am I just bad in thinking strongman>5x roleblock on N1, with these claims?

Anyways, the point is, in spite of the incentive to get him lynched, it seems improbable that the roleblock would be a good enough reason to put a member of a scum team at risk, so that begs the question of why didn't a slot who had claimed to be BP get shot instead of EP, if a lynch was actually planned...

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Forgot the bolding.

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

-Cerb

[Albert B. Rampage]

We lynch DiamondSentinel before he gets a double vote or something equally nasty.

[Albert B. Rampage]

His indignations and outbursts are not genuine. Just like I caught Max.

We're doing it again.

The theory that Cool Cucumbers was pushing double lynch to mislynch Cooldog and power up Max is something I can understand. I'll wait for his response and what position he takes. I would like to narrow down the field of potential lynches, resolve the daykill, and get more substance from Zulfy, Klingon, and others who have yet to pick a side that has actual momentum behind it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Drixx and Sensei will sit back and set me up to move the game, and I will, but I need the rest of you town players to have an impact.

[Varsoon]

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

Yes. However, he would not have been able to submit the Strongman Kill and use his roleblock, as those are both activated night actions.
As per the role PM flipped, the factional kill does not count against a player's limit of a singular night action.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, DS is probably scum. Yesterday he claimed that whoever hammered him would explode. Then when I suggested he be vigged instead, he changed his claim to try to discourage that. Now he changed it again.

Not only is DS probably scum, he's probably lying about being an ascetic.

Maybe we should have Pip daykill him.

[Lowkey]

Much more comfortable with a pip daykill on DS than a lynch on him honestly.

[Fluminator]

I'm just most confused that if he's ascetic, he would know the whole thing from pip and my gunsmith guilty was fake. If he was town, he'd be fine with whatever because his death would reveal me as scum.
Both sensei and pip read his reaction as town though, so I dunno.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Varsoon: what happens if a dayvig fails, do you confirm it has failed?

Forgive me if it has already been answered I'm phoneposting today.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If Varsoon gives no indication that a dayvig has failed, I will concede to a DS dayvig.

[Fluminator]

You're weird.
Also, surely my biggest scum read is obvious at this point. Cucumbers are probably my second, although I want cerb to post more.
I'm beginning to think Zulfy's a troll account.
Sensei is my biggest town read.

Could you tell me a particular reason for Town reading Sensei? Like which specific post or action of theirs' made you town read them?

The main one is where he's confirmed town basically.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

His indignations and outbursts are not genuine. Just like I caught Max.

We're doing it again.

The theory that Cool Cucumbers was pushing double lynch to mislynch Cooldog and power up Max is something I can understand. I'll wait for his response and what position he takes. I would like to narrow down the field of potential lynches, resolve the daykill, and get more substance from Zulfy, Klingon, and others who have yet to pick a side that has actual momentum behind it.

ABR, I think you already have this heads response. I said above that if that theory(which was suggested by me. :p DP's push comes for different reasons according to them) was what anyone cared to use to explain why we would campaign so strongly for the double lynch, then I don't really have any response to that. It's a perfectly reasonable goal to have. I don't think it would have been worth the exposure and associatives whenever MP did flip to scum!me, but I can see why it would appear that way to someone else. *shrug* Good argument is a good argument, and the only point to make against it is to say that I wouldn't do that so blatantly, but scum!me would say that too.

@Mod: In the case of MP's flipped role, would he have been able to both submit the factional kill, AND use his roleblock?

Yes. However, he would not have been able to submit the Strongman Kill and use his roleblock, as those are both activated night actions.
As per the role PM flipped, the factional kill does not count against a player's limit of a singular night action.

Thanks again Varsoon. Sorry to keep bothering you. So, I'm currently very confused by why MP told us about his RB. He could have just got a "as guaranteed as possible" kill on DP or ABR, one of whom is a known strong town player who has claimed to be BP, and the other has a role which, unless the player is quite incompetent, is well worth killing, and neither of whom would have likely had a watcher or anything on them, compared to Sensei. Again, am I overvaluing the strongman kill in this situation?

-Cerb

pedit: Ascetic generally wouldn't protect against a vig. There's a reason why Ascetic and BP are different modifiers. I recommend pip hold off on the day vig for a bit though, wherever we decide it should be pointed...I feel like not everyone has even checked this game yet and there might be more informed options presented.