SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Cerb consider the position that I took, and for which you got testy with me.

I said I wanted a Max lynch, and the double lynch was a bonus, but I didn't push for it at all.

My take was more reasonable and ultimately better for town.

What can you contribute with regards to DS?

[Albert B. Rampage]

My concern with cool cucumbers is he takes a middle and cautious stance on using the dayvig, but a hardline stance on the double lynch yesterday. I was also gone when Cooldog got hammered. I would have stopped it were I present. Any town there on that last day should have stopped it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I and others stated many times in Day 1 that a double lynch was least useful on Day 1. The scum were obviously conspiring to make it happen. It doesn't matter on which wagon they were, the way CC was hardlining the double lynch as the only protown thing to do. DP is also to be blamed for Cooldogs lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Cooldog is also to be blamed for not supporting me or posting about the things that mattered yesterday.

We have a lot of work to do.

[Zulfy]

VOTE: Albert

[Drunken Pirates]

We lynch DiamondSentinel before he gets a double vote or something equally nasty.

lookit dat rolefishing

[Drunken Pirates]

I mean, it's great he flipped scum and all, but a scum who's powers are unlocked when he's lynched? That's SOOOO obviously a scum-lead wagon. Honestly, I find CooLDoG's much more town-led. Even though he flipped town, it gave scum a golden opportunity to point out that dangerous people were on a town wagon while they were on a scum one. I may not be the best at this, but even I can recognize just how scum benefits from yesterday's events.

Please stop. You are not good at this game and working out alignments. Not being rude, just saying it how it is. The truth is brash. Max's wagon was town-initiated; I made the case for it and pushed it. Max campaigned directly against ABR

the entire day

and that's when ABR's suspicion of Max-scum started. 2407 and 2408 is where it all began.

Yeah, he probably got bussed by buddies; that doesn't mean he was a great idea to lynch or scum benefited in any way by losing a strongman(or w/e role goes through docs) and 5-time RB. Cooldog was a fairly easy read as town too and the general notion going around that he might not be a good idea was town-initiated too. Scum can jump on it, sure, but painting it as anything else is absurd. Just because the people in the party with you and confirmed town was on the wagon does not mean it was "much more town-led". Scum did not make a counterwagon to cooldog with their own buddy on purpose.

uhm

[Albert B. Rampage]

From sparking abilities after the mission...read first page.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cerb consider the position that I took, and for which you got testy with me.

I said I wanted a Max lynch, and the double lynch was a bonus, but I didn't push for it at all.

My take was more reasonable and ultimately better for town.

What can you contribute with regards to DS?

My concern with cool cucumbers is he takes a middle and cautious stance on using the dayvig, but a hardline stance on the double lynch yesterday. I was also gone when Cooldog got hammered. I would have stopped it were I present. Any town there on that last day should have stopped it.

You're misrepresenting me. I don't believe kills should ever be used hastily. I actually think itlepip and flum(that's who he neighborized, right?) should have plotted and misdirected their potential targets, got them talking, chatted with them and got as much information from them as possible, and then brought up the idea of the vig 4-5 RL days into the phase. That's just how I play guilties and vigs and such, I use them for maximum information. I never said the dayvig *shouldn't* be used, I said the targeting should wait until after we have more information, if there's more to be gained.

I mean, this is more of a theory point, but if you have two worlds, one where the vig is used at the very beginning of the day, one where it's used in the middle of the day, and one where it's used at the very end of the day, which one is ultimately more likely to give town information? The one where you get to see interactions both before and after the flip is revealed. it's just better play imo, unless you have reason to be afraid you'll be shot yourself.

I got testy with you yesterday because you were sowing the belief that the double lynch wasn't possible and disincentivizing the town from even attempt what is a stronger play overall. More town controlled kills are good. Yes, given the flips, a lynch on *just* MP would have been better than a lynch on both, but without certain knowledge of both slots alignment the double lynch is better from an optimization standpoint.

Anyways, your statement that I'm playing cautious with one but wasn't with the other is false. If I were suggesting we not use the dayvig at all today, while egging on a double lynch, you would absolutely be correct; however, that is not what I'm doing. I'm suggesting we use the dayvig when maximum information is to be gained, or at least when everyone has had a chance to catch up and contribute.

With regards to DS: I really want to go home and read through his ISO. I find it interesting that he's hard scum reading me at this point, when all i recall him saying with regards to suspicions of our slot yesterday was that he wanted to turbolynch anyone who "threw shade on conftown". I also find his lack of ascetic claim suspect. I even specifically called it out yesterday, saying that all ascetics and millers should claim D1( I should have included PGO's), just to make sure nobody could claim they simply didn't know that's how they should play that role(an excuse I've heard both scum and town give on at least one prior occasion, and he still didn't claim. That's absolutely anti-town behavior, but it isn't necessarily scummy. I'm quite interested in knowing if the information he had to share, that was the reason why he wanted to be in the party, and made a big deal about having a safe place to discuss things, was just his ascetic, simply because if that was honestly all it is, his outburst and reveal of said power to the whole game doesn't make any sense.

So, in short, there are scummy and anti-town behaviors that i can recall off the top of my head, but I do need to ISO him to be certain I'm not misremembering anything.

-Cerb

pedit: yes, a double lynch is LEAST useful on D1...but that's only relevant if the double lynching ability has limited shots. When you can double lynch on EVERY day, and you have good cause to suspect the source of the double lynch won't live through the night, it's reasonable to want to ensure town gets to control that extra kill.

[Drunken Pirates]

From sparking abilities after the mission...read first page.

how do you know that he was sparked what am I missing here

[The Cool Cucumbers]

From sparking abilities after the mission...read first page.

how do you know that he was sparked what am I missing here

DP, Varsoon confirmed earlier in thread that everyone who goes on an adventure will spark a technique. That's what ABR is referring to. He means he wants DS lynched before he gets to go on tonight's adventure, because he believes DS is scum and does not want him to gain any further power for his team.

-Cerb

[Varsoon]

Varsoon: what happens if a dayvig fails, do you confirm it has failed?

Only the vigilante would know of their failure.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Then I will third (fourth?) the motion to daykill DS.

[Yosarian2]

From sparking abilities after the mission...read first page.

how do you know that he was sparked what am I missing here

I think he's just saying that scum-DS sparking any of the abilities on the first page would be bad, so we should lynch him before he can.

[Gale Wing Srock]

Yeah, DS is probably scum. Yesterday he claimed that whoever hammered him would explode. Then when I suggested he be vigged instead, he changed his claim to try to discourage that. Now he changed it again.

Not only is DS probably scum, he's probably lying about being an ascetic.

Maybe we should have Pip daykill him.

I don't think DS is scum, he is just a VI tbh. He is lying his ass off wrt his role, his reads and what not. But I am seeing it as a survival mechanism than a scum vibe. Like he just wants to stay in this game for a long time, he doesn't want to be lynched or nk'd, and at the same time wants to be helpful for the town by drawing the night kill. I can see the conflict that he is having, between trying to prove his contributions to town and staying alive. Just don't seem to relate it to scumminess. Because VI's are like that, they are weird.

A vig shot on him is still decent, but there are other players who can be Vig'd for lurking like DGB, Zulfy and ZZZx. DS is still an active poster, and since we have a double lynch, we can just get him to L-2 (Itlepip has him as hated iirc), and see if anything improves.

I'm just most confused that if he's ascetic, he would know the whole thing from pip and my gunsmith guilty was fake. If he was town, he'd be fine with whatever because his death would reveal me as scum.
Both sensei and pip read his reaction as town though, so I dunno.

This however is making me question my read on DS. *sigh*
Why is Flum being town read again? Can someone please explain why their posts have not pinged you guys? I believe that Flum is a pretty talented scum and we need to do something about it. Like he is scooting by giving vague reads on people. I don't think his town read on Sensei is self-derived, and is more of a sheeped read. And his hood with Itlepip is making me more paranoid.

Is it possible that Itlepip is scum and his claims were bogus or those of his scum buddies? And the neighbourizer is a ruse that he is pulling off, by acting to add his scum buddy to it? I would really like to see that Day Vig being used, just to be sure of his claim. And the DS trap seems more like an agenda from N1, than something that was planned on Day 2.

The main one is where he's confirmed town basically.

*sigh*

I don't get a lot of time to play mafia guys, and catching up is taking most of the time that I would usually spend in building a case or trying to set traps. So I think that the better part of my scum hunting would come later in the game when I can concentrate more on indepth scum hunting rather than spending most of my time reading pages of posts. Just getting used to the fast paced games I suppose. *shrugs*

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can state with extremely high confidence that there are two scum factions in this game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

DS may not be scum with Max, but he's scum alright.

[Yosarian2]

[
I don't think DS is scum, he is just a VI tbh. He is lying his ass off wrt his role, his reads and what not. But I am seeing it as a survival mechanism than a scum vibe.

Frankly i would have lynched him yesterday if it hadn't been for his claim, which is now a proven lie.

Someone who lies and catches scum, like ABR, I can tolerate, although frankly the number of terrible and antitown lies flying around this game is wanting to make me bring back lynch all liars. But DS just looks like scum to me.

"He's a village idiot" is not a defense; someone can be a VI and draw a scum role.

Is it possible that Itlepip is scum and his claims were bogus or those of his scum buddies? And the neighbourizer is a ruse that he is pulling off, by acting to add his scum buddy to it?

That's not really plausible. Scum don't visibly tie themselves to their buddy's lie like that, it's suicide to try.

That doesn't prove either of their alignments, but they're pretty certanly not lying about the neighbor thing

[Albert B. Rampage]

Drixx is not confirmed town. Both Cooldog and I have the ability to protect the MC nomineee and keep Drixx from staying the MC by Nking the MC elect.

The reason there are two scum factions is that a scum MC in mid game can party up with his entire group and then each spark a double vote. Together they can gang up on the hated townies and dominate the town during the day, steamrolling town.

It isn't feasible to have a group of 4 or 5 scum to do this. Much more logical is two teams of 3 with super powers like lynch resistance, NK and investigation immune.

[Albert B. Rampage]

4 scum with double votes, that's 8 votes. Cumulative hated townie status? The game would end in an eye blink.

[Albert B. Rampage]

On the second spark, they can upgrade a double vote into an extra kill. This is dangerous and must be mitigated.

[Drunken Pirates]

4 scum with double votes, that's 8 votes. Cumulative hated townie status? The game would end in an eye blink.

and you really think that is what is going on?

cos I don't think so

[Albert B. Rampage]

You have proven that you are not reading my posts properly. I will speak to Titus.

[Klingoncelt]

Rabbit is probably the strongest Mec character in the game (besides T260G, of course). Rabbit has unique access to a Bit system, which fires little satellite bit things that float around and shoot his enemies with lasers. His move, SatelliteLinker, is one of the more powerful moves that a Mec can get.
Rabbit only joins Red's storyline, as it turns out that Rabbit is an agent of IRPO searching for the Black X drug factory in Kyo. It's unfortunate that more characters can't recruit Rabbit, because he's very powerful and his SatelliteLinker ability can make quick work of bosses.

Ooooh - cool! VARSOON - Can I get satellite bit thingies if I go on an adventure?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Klingon where are you on DS?

Yosarian is town.