SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sensei, talk to me.

Are you policy lynching me, or do you not believe me? You said "we're lynching the claimed 3p, claims that they win with town are bullshit 95% of the time." which leaves me uncertain as to what's the greater reason behind your position.

-Cerb

pedit: Rolecop confirms Zulfy and Sensei as town 100%(once zzzx flips, to be precise(which is *technically* a situation where my stump would be helpful, we could guarantee transmission of information by doc protecting zzzx while I stump him, since it goes through the protection. He'd get his result, we'd know his alignment, and we would confirm 2 town...but it's a shitty plan overall that we shouldn't do, I'm just stream of consciousing over here)), and confirms the miller claim. The miller claim does NOT guarantee that they are town though, since as Drixx reminded me, scum miller is indeed a thing, but it would clear two other slots. Once more full day/night phase, and you have mechanically probtown drixx, mod confirmed town DP if their claim is true(which I can't imagine it isn't? Insane to think they'd claim IC without being able to back it up, unless they thought we wouldn't be able to kill them at that point(which would explain the desperation to ensure we get lynched today))), even more conftown than they are now Zulfy and Sensei...and a party of conf to probtown people with high level skills. I'm sure Drixx has been drooling about discussing all this with you guys, but there are SEVERAL paths you could have taken with your abilities that make it nearly impossible for scum to win the game at that point.

pedit x2: True. ZZZX needs to confirm that his rolecop gets the full role card(which I think he said, I THINK he said full role card minus flavor/alignment...which means he'll know all their abilities and the details of such, and all the information contained in their role card)

[Klingoncelt]

I think the odds of us "controlling their stump" are low. I think if we try, tommorow they'll have killed someone else and they'll say "lol I thought that guy was scum" or "Ok ok but that was the last vig so I'll be good from now on i swear" or whatever and then people will probably let them go again anyway.

The idea of keeping them role-blocked forever isn't a great one either; I mean, if we really aren't going to lynch them, then yeah we should have Zulfy or Sky block them, but tying up one of our roleblocks forever isn't a great use of resources, and then are we going to lynch CC when our roleblockers die? Again, why not just do it now?

The best way to use a leash is to put the roleblocks somewhere else.

Whatever other Scums are out there need blocking, you know.

The leashed player does as Town tells him/her/them. If they fail then they are lynched the next Day.

[Sensei]

Are you policy lynching me, or do you not believe me? You said "we're lynching the claimed 3p, claims that they win with town are bullshit 95% of the time." which leaves me uncertain as to what's the greater reason behind your position.

My distrust of you guys stems mostly from the remnants of my scumread on you.
My first impression of your claim was "yea doesn't look like a fakeclaim" but I'm not about to underestimate yall. Also the thing where you need to kill all town vigs is pretty convenient now that I'm thinking about it and would be like the weirdest win-con ever. So there's that.

Also, if shiro is scum of any kind that wouldn't confirm zulfy or I as town. Unless the rolecard specifically said Annie and Liza are confirmed town but that seems like redundant info to give a scum role don't ya think? Like that's essentially neg utility.
If shiro isn't real I'm betting that they were just given flavor names of two people in the game that make sense in regards to their fakeclaim or they just guessed and made the whole thing up or something.

[Klingoncelt]

Shut up, or at least quit acting like such an idiot.

do you think saying this somehow makes you...look kewl or something? I was actually quoting what titus was saying to me on the phone lol. you know, that person want in the game so much who is itching to tear you a new 1 cos your play has been truly dismal.

You guys aren't keeping up. The state of the game has changed.

On yet another site I replaced into a game as Town. Titus and MathBlade were also Town. Titus, how was your play in that game?

I'm not going to tolerate any more Havoc.

You two can either work with me or sit down and shut up.

I pointed out TWO likely Scums. Comment on what I said about them.

Tick tock.

[Klingoncelt]

Why did your hydra suspect I was liza?

Because you said you were.

Funny you should say that now that I've outed you instead of before when R&L declared you "confirmed Town."

[Albert B. Rampage]

What do you think of Shiro, Klingon?

[Klingoncelt]

Hi Shiro. Sorry things went that way and hopefully you'll have enough time to invest in the game now that you're solo.

So, umm, wanna unvote me now so I don't have to be constantly wondering if KC/Sensei are gonna get bored and just lolhammer me? :-/ Since, ya know, you did say you weren't 100% on lynching us today?

DP, what are your thoughts on Skybird?

-Cerb

You're a lot less scummy that Zulfy and DGB.

[Klingoncelt]

What do you think of Shiro, Klingon?

Still catching up, I'm behind 3 or 4 pages, but so far I think Town.

[Klingoncelt]

...

I misinterpreted ABR's comment to mean that at some point Zulfy had previously hard claimed liza.

Sensei did not give a reason for why he was so certain zulfy was town at that time, nor did ABR say why he made his comment, so the only reason in thread as far as I can tell was sensei's comment about zulfy being town/shouldn't be lynched/something along those lines.

None of those things, however, were said BY Zulfy's slot. Actual crumbs didn't occur until post 6k+ I believe, well into D2. And long after you guys had declared the names that you knew were town.

-Cerb

Zulfy hard-claimed Liza in post 6880 -

after

R&L said Liza was the second name they had.

See also post 7722 where I point it out.

Am I the only one paying attention?

[Albert B. Rampage]

What do you think of Shiro, Klingon?

Still catching up, I'm behind 3 or 4 pages, but so far I think Town.

Reasons please

[Albert B. Rampage]

...

I misinterpreted ABR's comment to mean that at some point Zulfy had previously hard claimed liza.

Sensei did not give a reason for why he was so certain zulfy was town at that time, nor did ABR say why he made his comment, so the only reason in thread as far as I can tell was sensei's comment about zulfy being town/shouldn't be lynched/something along those lines.

None of those things, however, were said BY Zulfy's slot. Actual crumbs didn't occur until post 6k+ I believe, well into D2. And long after you guys had declared the names that you knew were town.

-Cerb

Zulfy hard-claimed Liza in post 6880 -

after

R&L said Liza was the second name they had.

See also post 7722 where I point it out.

Am I the only one paying attention?

No. This is common sense which the majority agree on. Zulfy isnt confirmed by Rylai whether or not she is telling the truth. Personally I think Rylai/Shiro is scum.

[Klingoncelt]

Wouldn't miller just turn up as scum? Does the rolecop just give us the flavor name? There is no guarantee of anything. Tree stump is safest choice for Shiro.

Rolecop gives role. The only read that could be confusing is if Goons and Vanilla Townies both read as Vanilla. Millers read as Millers, Vig's read as Vig, etc.

[Klingoncelt]

What do you think of Shiro, Klingon?

Still catching up, I'm behind 3 or 4 pages, but so far I think Town.

Reasons please

Originally I had them as Scum for FA's "language issue." She did that in a game where she flipped Scum. At DP's request I Nulled everyone that voted for me on Day 1.

By Day 2 I had them leaning Town, confused, naive, and ditsy, but Town.

I think you're OMGUSing here, Albert. Give Shiro 24-48 hours and see how you feel then.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Are you policy lynching me, or do you not believe me? You said "we're lynching the claimed 3p, claims that they win with town are bullshit 95% of the time." which leaves me uncertain as to what's the greater reason behind your position.

My distrust of you guys stems mostly from the remnants of my scumread on you.
My first impression of your claim was "yea doesn't look like a fakeclaim" but I'm not about to underestimate yall. Also the thing where you need to kill all town vigs is pretty convenient now that I'm thinking about it and would be like the weirdest win-con ever. So there's that.

Also, if shiro is scum of any kind that wouldn't confirm zulfy or I as town. Unless the rolecard specifically said Annie and Liza are confirmed town but that seems like redundant info to give a scum role don't ya think? Like that's essentially neg utility.
If shiro isn't real I'm betting that they were just given flavor names of two people in the game that make sense in regards to their fakeclaim or they just guessed and made the whole thing up or something.

So, reasonable paranoia, essentially? And, it isn't that I need to kill all town vigs. It's that we need to remove everyone with access to a killing ability due to faction or role, so...yeah, it amounts to kill all vigs+scum+sk's etc.

Hmm. What is your objection to letting us live like a day or two, as requested, so we can hopefully just win the game with you guys long before we're anywhere close to a threat(and also long enough to, coincidentally, have DP become conftown/keep us around long enough to stump them if it becomes necessary because their conftown never happens)?

And yes, if shiro is scum it says nothing about your alignment. Only if they are town is their claim reasonable. And yes, it's certainly reasonable that they would read their role card and check out flavor and know that those two names were not among their companions(or one of them was), and thought of making this claim. That fact is the reason why Drixx was referring to a potential need to see their flip at some point in the game, if things go on long enough.

-Cerb

[Klingoncelt]

...

Personally I think Rylai/Shiro is scum.

In my last reads list I had CC as Lean Town, so ...

But I have DrippingGoofball, Lowkey, and Zulfy as Lean Scum/Scum, with Skybird as Null, but kinda sorta leaning Scum.

Also, the way TitusMollie are acting, I would normally jump up and down screaming Scum, but I'm getting more used to their playstyles, I think they're Wrong Town instead of Lean Scum.

So I have 4 possible Scums, not counting CC and DP. Can there be 4 Scums left in the game? And now possibly Shiro?

I need to get this narrowed down. I have 2 votes to drop on someone.

Zulfy is off the table I guess, so I want to look at DrippingGoofball, Lowkey, and Skybird.

ABR, what do you think of those 3?

[Zulfy]

I didnt see what r and l posted about liza until Klingon showed it.
As soon as we figure out the strategy here Ima fuck everyone up.

That should clear me Klingon.

[Klingoncelt]

I didnt see what r and l posted about liza until Klingon showed it.
As soon as we figure out the strategy here Ima fuck everyone up.

That should clear me Klingon.

Looks like everyone else already cleared you.

How you gonna fuck everyone up?

[Zulfy]

With my fists

Im confused about everyones roles so

[Drixx]

It bothers me how much Cerberus can discern of what I'm thinking just from the things I've said. I mentioned future game states in the possibility space where we would want to see Shiro's flip and he discerned the exact chain of thought that made me say that, when I can think of at least a half dozen other reasons I might have said that.

Just thought I would note that it's unsettling. I've only typed through my full thoughts into my notepad notes for the game at this point. Just ... freaky.

If I have the same ability to understand his thinking, I basically guarantee you his claim is genuine. Guess I'll find out at some point.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What do you think of Shiro, Klingon?

Still catching up, I'm behind 3 or 4 pages, but so far I think Town.

Reasons please

Originally I had them as Scum for FA's "language issue." She did that in a game where she flipped Scum. At DP's request I Nulled everyone that voted for me on Day 1.

By Day 2 I had them leaning Town, confused, naive, and ditsy, but Town.

I think you're OMGUSing here, Albert. Give Shiro 24-48 hours and see how you feel then.

I love Shiro. He thinks I'm town too. There's no OMGUS.

I am leaning town on the 3 you mention. My suspects are Shiro and Skybird.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

OH, and Sensei: it's entirely possible that there was a bit in Shiro!scum's rolecard about those roles. Perhaps like blue and rouge knew the each other's flavor existed in the game. Maybe they know x or y about those two slots, and knows they're not part of the scum team, and the whole thing about knowing 2 people are conftown was a way to know which slots whatever information they had applied to. That would make it positive utility for scum, like a free partial rolecop they could get from flavor claims.

-Cerb

pedit: Drixx: that, sir, is why we work so well together.

[Klingoncelt]

I love Shiro. He thinks I'm town too. There's no OMGUS.

I am leaning town on the 3 you mention. My suspects are Shiro and Skybird.

OH, and Sensei: it's entirely possible that there was a bit in Shiro!scum's rolecard about those roles. Perhaps like blue and rouge knew the each other's flavor existed in the game. Maybe they know x or y about those two slots, and knows they're not part of the scum team, and the whole thing about knowing 2 people are conftown was a way to know which slots whatever information they had applied to. That would make it positive utility for scum, like a free partial rolecop they could get from flavor claims.

-Cerb

CC, how do you feel about DrippingGoofball and Lowkey?

Everyone else:

How do all of you feel about DrippingGoofball, Lowkey, and Skybird, and why?

[Sensei]

OH, and Sensei: it's entirely possible that there was a bit in Shiro!scum's rolecard about those roles. Perhaps like blue and rouge knew the each other's flavor existed in the game. Maybe they know x or y about those two slots, and knows they're not part of the scum team, and the whole thing about knowing 2 people are conftown was a way to know which slots whatever information they had applied to. That would make it positive utility for scum, like a free partial rolecop they could get from flavor claims.

Huh. That hadn't occurred to me.
That may also explain their overall giant focus on flavor and stuff..
(Returns to the mountains to hem and haw for a few days.)

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, also, KC: Our play is 100% town. We need to catch the scum the same way you do, thus we are scumhunting, so your townread was spot on.

DGB I was quite certain they were scum until I reread their ISO yesterday. I get much more of a sensation of super lost confused town than anything else after that read through. Their sheeping is so blatantly contradictory that is...it just doesn't feel like it could be scum. It's so fucking bad. Like, you'd think scum her, apparently been here for 10 fucking years, would have the presence of mind to realize they went from being willing to sheep a vote we made, to being willing to sheep a vote on us, with no meaningful content in between from us.

Lowkey has felt quite town all game, but I honestly have no idea why. It is very possible they're scum, but they haven't given me any reason to even think about them. Which, umm. Is kinda bad, I guess? :-/

-Cerb

[Drixx]

I may never get this chance again.

So what you're saying, Cerb, is that Lowkey has been really low key this game?