Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[davidangelsummers]

Thats was a FOS on ZONEFACE

[killerbob]

Ok...so my top three.

1. Cephrir - from reading your previous posts and what you have posted since I have been in this game, you just seem scummy to me.

2. Green Day - the whole, I'm not "actually" voting for Karen but she should be lynched thing really bothers me.

3. ZONEACE and Tarhalindur (It's a tie!!!) - ZONEACE, you have provided some good talking points, but based on your own logic, which I have to admit was something i had not considered, you are the last living persons who voted for Karen. Tar, maybe it's just an oversight (but I don't think so), you didn't even address the top lynch candidate in your analysis. That is a big thing to me.

FoS: Tarhalindur

QFT

I'm back (finally), with time to reread.

Time for some player analysis/ Quick Reads:

Blight: Attacks Green Day for his Karen vote D1; continues to attack Green Day after he explains; doesn't like Green Day and Zoneace/unsure about Karen (NOTE: uses a variant of the "player X is scummy, but player Y and Z are scummier for attacking player X" argument); votes Green Day and FoSes Zoneace with no new reasoning; attacks Green Day and Zoneace further with new/revised reasoning; still focusing on Green Day and Zoneace.

My thoughts: Moderately scummy. He's been focusing on Green Day and Zoneace, and used the "scummy but players attacking her are scummier" defense for Karen, which I consider a scumtell. FoS: Blight He desperately needs to post more (though I suppose I shouldn't be talking about that...); in particular, I'd like to hear new analysis on Green Day and Zoneace, and his opinions on the other players in the game.

Cephrir: FoSes and then votes Karen due to her erratic/anti-town behavior; thinks that Karen is as good a lynch as any other (!); defends the Karen wagon from ckd/dybeck criticisms; claims that he doesn't want to actually lynch Karen, he's just playing devil's advocate ( Exclamation , looks like scum trying to play both sides of the argument); claims that Karen's posts alone offer enough of a case against her; insults someone who attacks the Karen wagon; attacks ckd/dybeck/Karen, using some personal attacks/FoSes Green Day for "already stated reasons" (by who, exactly?); still not voting, despite his obvious pushing of the Karen bandwagon; finally votes Karen because "Karen is useless"; still pushing the Karen wagon; major FoS'es dybeck because of perceived buddying with Karen; attacks ckd for Karen defense; continues to defend the Karen wagon even after she turns up town/votes ckd for Karen defense; switches to dybeck wagon with little reasoning; personal attacks ckd; weak/OMGUS'y defense; continues to attack ckd with reasoning even while under attack himself (NOTE: I consider this a town tell); ckd isn't on his Top 3 Scum List despite his recent attacks.

My thoughts: From what I've seen, I think that Cephrir is just a very misguided pro-town player. He's done a few scummy things (mainly his personal attacks and his early behavior on the Karen wagon), but the new reasoning he's offered and his decision to hunt potential scum instead of offer defense look very pro-town to me.

chocolateattack: Votes Karen with little reasoning; continues to attack Karen; attacks ckd for defending Karen; thinks that Karen is scum; defends flyinghawk and thinktank, attacks dybeck; votes Green Day with decent reasoning; defends! his actions re: Karen; continues to attack Green Day.

My thoughts: Chocolateattack looks like a newb townie to me. I can't really explain why logically, just a gut feeling that he's genuine.

More later.

[ChocolateAttack]

I think that there are several scum on Green Day's wagon.

I Agree with you and I was going to Vote for Cephrir but you cant ignore the fact that greenday is being like a rabbit caught in the headlights.. He needs to explain him self. I dont want a quick lynch today.

ZONEFACE

man you reek of scum..Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete..and tag team Dybeck and Ckd will have my neck...
All about as scummy as each other
1)Greenday
2)Zoneface
3)Cephrir

Plus...Guys...go check every game me and Dybeck have ever been in and see which guy he votes for...lol...Dybeck your also a pain in my ass..Im telling Sissel

No problem! i take my vote off Green Day for the time being since i want to hear more from him and a quick lynch is now bad for the town.

Unvote

[WhoMe?]

Top 3

Green Day
Dybeck
Everyone else

[Sonicpulsar]

So the two current wagons are Cephrir and Greenday? I did vote for Cephrir last game day because his activities seemed suspicious but i have grown less susiciois,however could someone explain their arguments on each of the wagon, and against as well?
Ty

Can we get a replacement for this guy? He's posting in other threads, just not ours. Interestingly enough, his latest post (in another game) was voting for Fernando (who was replaced in this game) for inactivity. Pot, meet kettle.

Green Day, mind trying to defend yourself or explain why someone else is scummier? We're not getting much from despite the fact you were at -2.

[ZONEACE]

ZONEFACE

man you reek of scum..Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete

Wait, I REEK of scum, but you're unwilling to unvote him yourself???? How does that make sense, If you'd don't want him lynched then YOU unvote him yourself. Could you play both sides a LITTLE harder there? Why is it ok for you to have a vote on him, but the rest of us can't have a vote on him for the same reason as you? that's ridiculous. Green Day has given us NO REASON to not vote him, He's had AMPLE oppurtunities to defend himself and instead he has made useless posts. Seems to me like he's stalling so he can think up a fake claim, and it sounds like you want to help him stall but just incase he cant come up with anyhting good you can say "hey, i was always there voting for him so don't look at me as scum"

Big FOS Davidangel

that makes NO SENSE AND SOUNDS SCUMMY.

also, Killerbob, why would i raise a point about the people voting for karen who look scummy that would draw attention to me if I were scum? It just doesn't make sense that I would raise a valid point where I was the main target of suspicion if I were scum.

Finally, speaking of my vote for karen. Its kinda funny that a couple of people have claimed I was the driving force behind the lynch (mostly CKD) and I was the one getting people to pile on. thats just not true, if you go back and look, I was the 7th person on the list. the lynch was already halfway there when i voted for her. How can I, the 7th voter, be the driving force behind the lynch when more than half the number required to lynch have already voted for her. I wasn't the driving force behind anything, except logic.

[curiouskarmadog]

I wasn't the driving force behind anything, except logic.

[Twomz]

Green Day is at -2 to lynch, if someone puts him at 1 to hammah, I will unvote him for now. The fact that he is not defending himself makes me want to just leave my vote on though... however, we have several lurkers and inactive players that we need to take care of too. Since I am actually in class right now, I cannot do a full post right now >.< I will do a check on activity and do a review of a few key players/events later tonight (probably pretty late... possibly mid afternoon if I get the chance).


POST MOAR PLZ!

[ZONEACE]

he's at -3 cause Chocolate Attack unvoted (at david's request even though david didn't think he should have to unvote himself.)

[Cephrir]

1. Cephrir - from reading your previous posts and what you have posted since I have been in this game, you just seem scummy to me.

That's extemely helpful. So basically, you've read the game and your top suspicion is a gut feeling?

[thinktank]

Following along the same lines as karen playign pattern, Green day seems to be a bit erratic as well. He went the "poor me" vote as someone else said, offering no case against lynching him except that itd be wrong. That being said, i dont think he is the top suspect at this point.. Like someone else said "this lynch shouldnt be this easy " (paraphrase, sry i dont remember who). I'm not entirely sure which bandwagon is the one to go but Greenday is dangerously close to being hammerred. I think we need more time and information to make the correct decision and letting Greenday be hammered cold be bad. Acrually.. now that i think of it, hammering to lync is quite scummy as well.

[Dead Rikimaru]

The form a werewolf assumes is not always that of an ordinary wolf but often anthropomorphic or otherwise larger and more powerful than an ordinary wolf.

EIGHTH VOTECOUNT

Green Day

(6) - Twomz , Blight , Kison , WhoMe? , davidangelsummers , ZONEACE

Cephrir

(4) - dybeck , Flyinghawk , curiouskarmadog , killerbob

dybeck

(1) - Cephrir

Twomz

(1) - Green Day

Not voting

(5): Sonicpulsar , Tarhalindur , thinktank , Kanaga , ChocolateAttack

Needed for a lynch: 9 votes
Negotiable deadline: 21 days

If by deadline no one has 9 votes player with more votes is lynched
If two players have same number of votes lynch is decided by duel

MOD NOTE

Although I have been constantly sending activity checks in a private manner (majority of players have received at least one) feel free to ask

ME

to prod any inactive player.
Replacements will be arranged

when needed.

[killerbob]

@ Cephrir - Here is my reasoning for you looking scummy.

[devilsadvocate]That's true for any town player we lynch, and we are likely to lynch town today since most of the players aren't scum (I think). So why not lynch someone erratic in her voting who will never be helpful to the town? [/devilsadvocate]

I'll come back to this one in a second.

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

You have a valid point here. However it was a bit early to be pushing for a lynch IMO.

I realize that offing an innocent is bad, but we have no guarantee than Karen is innocent, in fact, she's just as likely to be scum as any of us, and if we have to lynch someone it may as well be her.

I dont buy it...our first day lynch should not be this easy...you dont find some of the votes on here...well, strange?...weak excuse? and explanations that paint her has bad town, not scum?

I wouldn't say they're weak excuses, they're actually perfectly good excuses. We can't let Karen coast to endgame, she'd just kill us there. The fact that she hasn't been lynched already makes me think there's a good chance she's scum.

How ironic that this post is itself scummier than anything Karen's said all game. Getting pissed about the fact that there's a baseless bandwagon on you is NORMAL. I'd be pissed if too if I were Karen.

unvote, vote: Flyinghawk

Yeah, but there's a reason why Karen is being wagoned. You, as a somewhat experienced player, would not behave so erratically that you attract all those votes.

OK, "The fact that she hasn't been lynched already makes me think there's a good chance she's scum." So why didn't you vote for her then? You answer this question in a post later. I'm getting to it.

See my post at the top of the page? See the "[devilsadvocate]" tags? This whole argument has not actually my opinion, I'm just getting the different sides out there. If I actually wanted to lynch Karen, I would be voting for her.

And there it is. So you don't want to lynch Karen but you want people to see the reasons for doing it. But what about this next post?

Actually, since there are a lot of fairly new players in this game, I really am surprised there isn't a bigger wagon on her.

So, you are surprised that there isn't a bigger wagon on Karen. Why not put your vote there to encourage people there. The answer is in this next post.

dybeck: I am currently not voting. There's a reason.

But you never give this reason till this post.

Dybeck, has it occured to you that maybe we see your point and don't agree?

I have to go with Sonicpulsar here: Karen is useless. I think she's slightly more likely scum than the average player in this game, and if she's town she won't be of any help anyway, plus the way she blunders about makes it impossible to read whether or not she's scum. She will continue to be unreadable if we let her survive because after we do it a few times, she will get a free pass and be able to coast along if she's scum because nobody pays attention to the massive tells that she exhibits every time she posts.

Vote: Karen

So since Karen is "useless" she should be lynched even though there might be some more scummy players that should be lynched, "she won't be of any help anyway" so let's just get rid of her. But every townie is important in this game since the two mafia groups can't NK each other. I would have rather let her get by on the first night and seen where that went.

So, in summary, you play devil's advocate explaining reasons to vote Karen but you don't vote for her because you don't want to lynch her. Yet you are surprised that more people are not on her wagon and you refuse to vote for her based on some unknown reason till you decide that she is useless and should be lynched. Maybe I am new to this game but that seems like a pretty good case against you to me.

[Cephrir]

I could answer that with a big long post, but it would basically just say this: "I changed my mind." So... yeah.

[Kanaga]

Thinktank- summarizing things everyone else has said isn't a real content vote.

Cephrir- at least he tried to explain his list, even if it wasn't a good explanation.

David does seem a bit scummy too. So far we haven't seen very much content out of him.

[ZONEACE]

yeah there really are just too many people who aren't participating.

Thinktank's post was not useful at all. It just makes him look like he's participating while really he's not adding anything to the game.

Davidangel is doing the same thing. Sure he's posting, but very few of them actually add anything to the game.

Greenday is doing the same thing, but already looked suspicious. Thats why people are voting for him, including myself.

[Blight]

Sorry it's been a while since I posted. Been busy with school and work.

I'm not a big fan of Zoneace pushing so strongly the easy Karen BW. Karen made an easy lynch target, and I feel like Zoneace, as well as others, capitalized. I also don't like his vote for day 2, or at least the reasons behind his vote.

I'm curious as to what exactly you don't like about my vote for today? I stated yesterday that I would be voting for CKD today (unless another target that seemed to be scum became apparent and my help was needed to finish a lynch) and I believe my reasons are quite obvious and well explained. So what's so terrible about my vote?

I didn't think CKD was a good pick for today, and I didn't like how you had chosen to vote CKD all day regardless of any other information that comes up.

My reasons to suspect you aren't that strong, I'll admit. But, I don't know, I just get this feeling that you're scum.

I've been also getting a strong scum vibe from Dybeck that I can't really explain.

Right now, I'm still confident in my vote on Green Day.

Also, I have to say that these posts by ChocolateAttack and DavidAngelSummers seem very odd:

Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete..and tag team Dybeck and Ckd will have my neck...

No problem! i take my vote off Green Day for the time being since i want to hear more from him and a quick lynch is now bad for the town.

Unvote

[ZONEACE]

i agree with your last point blight, but based on the way CA has been posting all game its not really that suspicious to me, but david's post is VERY strange and scummy as i pointed out earlier.

[davidangelsummers]

he's at -3 cause Chocolate Attack unvoted (at david's request even though david didn't think he should have to unvote himself.)

No your 100% right I did not want to take of my vote till I get some content out of Greenday. Cuz otherwise I would be back tracking and it would have been picked up.
A big part of me wants to Vote Cep cuz I want to see if Dybeck and Ckd can be right twice.
Zoneface you seem to want this day over quick and that does not sit well with me. People always think my playing style is wierd. Check my last Newbie ..Go on have a read.

[davidangelsummers]

See ya Monday guys..I will answer any questions then..ta

[ChocolateAttack]

[quote="Blight"
Also, I have to say that these posts by ChocolateAttack and DavidAngelSummers seem very odd:

Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete..and tag team Dybeck and Ckd will have my neck...

No problem! i take my vote off Green Day for the time being since i want to hear more from him and a quick lynch is now bad for the town.

Unvote

[/quote]

I don't think there is any thing odd about my post and DAS since i think DAS was right about Green Day being too close to lynch. The longer the day time is the better for the town to be more precise in chosing their vote so i didn't want the day to end too quick and make another mistake like Karen. And what make you so sure that Green Day is scum.

about DAS didn't unvote Green Day, i

foms

this because it indeed odd but he has his reason so i guess it up to you to believe him or not.

[thinktank]

Lynching town is never a good thing no matter how useless they are to the discussion cause its always better to lynch scummy players. Cephrir, what made you change your vote to Karen? from what ive read you say that she seems scummier than the average player but mainly because of her incoherent ramblings and blunders? why was she scummier than the average players? because she was erratic? Than isnt Greenday also erratic? so why is your vote at dybeck and not greenday?

[Twomz]

Hello, I am here >.< anyone else?

[Blight]

Also, I have to say that these posts by ChocolateAttack and DavidAngelSummers seem very odd:

Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete..and tag team Dybeck and Ckd will have my neck...

No problem! i take my vote off Green Day for the time being since i want to hear more from him and a quick lynch is now bad for the town.

Unvote

I don't think there is any thing odd about my post and DAS since i think DAS was right about Green Day being too close to lynch. The longer the day time is the better for the town to be more precise in chosing their vote so i didn't want the day to end too quick and make another mistake like Karen. And what make you so sure that Green Day is scum.

about DAS didn't unvote Green Day, i

foms

this because it indeed odd but he has his reason so i guess it up to you to believe him or not.

Here's how it looked to me. DAS thinks Green Day is getting too many votes, but he chooses not to take his own vote off. Instead, he asks someone else to unvote. That was odd. Not incredibly scummy, but odd.

Then you come along and immediately comply to his request. It kind of seemed like you were buddying up to him...or possibly even taking orders. Either way, it just seemed odd.

[Twomz]

Also, I have to say that these posts by ChocolateAttack and DavidAngelSummers seem very odd:

Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete..and tag team Dybeck and Ckd will have my neck...

No problem! i take my vote off Green Day for the time being since i want to hear more from him and a quick lynch is now bad for the town.

Unvote

I don't think there is any thing odd about my post and DAS since i think DAS was right about Green Day being too close to lynch. The longer the day time is the better for the town to be more precise in chosing their vote so i didn't want the day to end too quick and make another mistake like Karen. And what make you so sure that Green Day is scum.

about DAS didn't unvote Green Day, i

foms

this because it indeed odd but he has his reason so i guess it up to you to believe him or not.

Here's how it looked to me. DAS thinks Green Day is getting too many votes, but he chooses not to take his own vote off. Instead, he asks someone else to unvote. That was odd. Not incredibly scummy, but odd.

Then you come along and immediately comply to his request. It kind of seemed like you were buddying up to him...or possibly even taking orders. Either way, it just seemed odd.

This post has merit... possibly merit badges...

But Green Day has still not replied adequately to the case against him for me to believe that he is not scum, so my vote remains. However, we should not rush this day just because everyone agrees that he is scummy. The other main discussion points are Cephrir and some of the activity on the GD wagon.

Cephrir... I am not sure about. I can see why he would appear scummy, but I do not think the case against him is really that strong. It is worth keeping an eye on him though.

Points of the Cephrir case so far... um...

Oh yeah, I totally forgot Cephrir was scum.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

Vote 1) Case made yesterday?

For some reason this really hits me as a scum trying to act like a town. Dummy, CKD was right, karen was a town.

vote: Cephrir

Vote 2) Scum trying to act like town... (can you elaborate on how this is different from town acting like town?)

After 2nd vote, Cephrir OMGUSs dybeck citing the same reason as dybeck did (basically).

wow, I dont know what is more astounding, that you actually posted that case, or that you think the town might actually believe it. I think you are scum, and you are trying to get another fast town lynch Day 2...hopefully the town will learn from Day 1..

unvote, vote cephrir

I still find davdangelsummers scummy..lets see how long he lurks.

Vote 3) Reason for voting dybeck scummy.

My opinion is that it was almost the same as dybeck's vote for cephrir, but with added OMGUS... so I will assume that you are voting him for OMGUSing dybeck.

I do agree with you on that point. I was making those observations as well. But I agree with Karma that Cephrir has been kinda lurky and not explaining his case. Until he comes out of the shadows I'm going to vote: Cephrir.

Vote 4) The "point" in question is that some of the people voting GD were on the Karen wagon, and people on Cephrir were not. Vote is for lurking and not explaining his case against his target (CKD unless I am mistaken at this point, all the finger pointing is confusing me).


BTW, this is the "case" dybeck made against cephrir yesterday

Who'll join me on a Cephrir bandwagon?

I think that all those not on the Karen bandwagon will understand why.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

Dybeck, could you please post the reasons for the people that were on the Karen wagon?

Killerbob's post 462 seems to be the main case against him (made by the last guy to join the wagon... odd, imo). Cephrir's answer was that he changed his mind /shrug && sigh.


Basically, we are waiting for green day to post proper response to the case against him, but because of the scummy behavior recently on the back end of the wagon, it is likely that he will be able to lurk through it and the wagon will be stigmatized anyway. There are also too many players coasting and not posting, or when they do post not even trying to post content.

I will look into DAS, Zoneace, CA and the lurkers after we get some actual responses from Green Day. I will keep my eye on Cephrir as well.