every
point.VOTE: SRMP
~~~~~~ SRMP's Scummy Voting ~~~~~~
Spoiler:
In 600 he votes SirCakez, doesn't present a case, and subsequently this exchange starts:
I don't like the mindset this post seems to come from. It's as if SRMP sees that the rest of the town recognizes SirCakez as flailing and figures he should come up with a reason to make this accusation as well, but the one he picks is "you have a problem with me voting you", which is a perfectly reasonable problem for SirCakez to have.
Really a complete BS reason to unvote SirCakez. If Cakez was his top scumread, then a townie in that position would've kept his vote there regardless of whether he had a scummy quote to show everyone else or not.
This post is almost too scummy to be scum.
He doesn't seem to realize that the reasoning behind the ika wagon wasn't merely "lurking", but, rather, what that lurking purportedly indicated. This makes his presence on the ika wagon even scummier.
This really feels like an attempt at after-the-fact rationalization for his wagon jump. I don't know about you, but I've never witheld placing a vote because I felt that a vote placed later on the same person would apply more pressure.
Again, a townie would have his vote on his top scumread regardless of whether he had a quote to show everyone else. SRMP seems afraid to do this.
Rewinding a bit to post 464...
The "pressure" reason is given again here. He says he's merely "fine with pressuring this slot" as if he doesn't want to overcommit to it.
Maybe, though, these sketchy pressure excuses aren't indicative of alignment, but rather of his voting philosophy whereby votes should be used to pressure?
Nope. He knows better.
In post 606, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 602, SirCakez wrote:Yeah I think my scumreads are good right now.
seems like you have a problem with me voting you.
Why is that?
I don't like the mindset this post seems to come from. It's as if SRMP sees that the rest of the town recognizes SirCakez as flailing and figures he should come up with a reason to make this accusation as well, but the one he picks is "you have a problem with me voting you", which is a perfectly reasonable problem for SirCakez to have.
In post 618, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 612, SirCakez wrote:Zulfy vote had terrible reasoning behind it as you made the vote based on a joke post, ika vote was naked, vote one me was naked.
Zulfy I dident know if joke
ika was pressure we went through this.
You are a solid vote, but since I dont feel like iso digging will unvote for now.
UNVOTE: sircakez
Really a complete BS reason to unvote SirCakez. If Cakez was his top scumread, then a townie in that position would've kept his vote there regardless of whether he had a scummy quote to show everyone else or not.
In post 652, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 651, SirCakez wrote:The Zulfy vote, OK. You never explained why you weren't pressuring ika before the wagon though, and you haven't explained your vote on me.
im not on you, im too lazy to iso dig, and since that can easily be seen as an excuse im unlynching until I feel like digging through the iso.
I pressured ika because we were up to doing it. a one vote pressure would have not gotten anywhere.
This post is almost too scummy to be scum.
In post 657, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 655, SirCakez wrote:All wagons start somewhere.
but all I could say is "lurking", I dont know their meta at all (or anyones for that matter)
lynching someone for lurking and nothing else wont get a wagon.
He doesn't seem to realize that the reasoning behind the ika wagon wasn't merely "lurking", but, rather, what that lurking purportedly indicated. This makes his presence on the ika wagon even scummier.
In post 679, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 663, SirCakez wrote:You waited so long to start your pressure though.
Yeah, I waited because there needed to be a few votes first so there would actually be pressure there, if I was a lone vote there would be no pressure.
This really feels like an attempt at after-the-fact rationalization for his wagon jump. I don't know about you, but I've never witheld placing a vote because I felt that a vote placed later on the same person would apply more pressure.
In post 706, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 704, curiouskarmadog wrote:here is where I am at with you..I think you need to have a reason to be voting SCakes. I dont know if you are trying to push a quick lynch on a town...or if you are bussing a partner. but something about your vote and continued vote is pinging my radar. it does not feel genuine.
I do!
but iso digging is boring and thus why my vote isent there.
Again, a townie would have his vote on his top scumread regardless of whether he had a quote to show everyone else. SRMP seems afraid to do this.
Rewinding a bit to post 464...
The "pressure" reason is given again here. He says he's merely "fine with pressuring this slot" as if he doesn't want to overcommit to it.
Maybe, though, these sketchy pressure excuses aren't indicative of alignment, but rather of his voting philosophy whereby votes should be used to pressure?
In post 257, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 221, SirCakez wrote:I've only hopped one wagon, and that's because the first one I was on was dead and not going anywhere.
Thats why you make your case on me.
Just jumping on the biggest wagons isent going to get you anywhere.Vote for who you think is the scummiest and present your case. Come deadline and your guy isent getting lynched, THEN you hop to the biggest wagon (or if multiple, the one that features who you think is the scummiest player) to get a lynch done.
Nope. He knows better.
~~~~~~ Camn's reads on SRMP, and his Scummy Reaction ~~~~~~
Spoiler:
In a post in which camn was trying to find tictac's scumpartner:
When going over who might be tictac's scumpartner, she writes "Maybe yes here!", but her reasons are almost entirely associative tells between SRMP and tictac, which would make it easy for her to ditch later if tictac (then her top scumread) flipped town.
Then SRMP responded:
This comment is weird, but says nothing to contest the notion that scum-tictac would mean scum-SRMP (since this would presumably come from his knowledge as scum that tictac is town, and a camn-SRMP-tictac triple gambit here seems immensely unlikely).
Later, in the post in which camn votes ika:
The way camn shoehorns SRMP in here, as if only to get his name in her list of scumreads but not nail herself down to anything should she later want to back off, is scummy in the same way 312 was.
In post 312, camn wrote:
Some random mafia player?
Maybe yes here!
My early vote was a thin, page one vote. Tictac piling on, and then the whole thing gets written off as "reaction testing" in 106 and 110. It sounds like tictac set that up in their scumchat.
And now this "lol I asked you if you were scum" nonsense... Too much distancing.
When going over who might be tictac's scumpartner, she writes "Maybe yes here!", but her reasons are almost entirely associative tells between SRMP and tictac, which would make it easy for her to ditch later if tictac (then her top scumread) flipped town.
Then SRMP responded:
In post 316, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 312, camn wrote:My early vote was a thin, page one vote. Tictac piling on, and then the whole thing gets written off as "reaction testing" in 106 and 110. It sounds like tictac set that up in their scumchat.
It was obvious it was a reaction test, that reason was bad.
This comment is weird, but says nothing to contest the notion that scum-tictac would mean scum-SRMP (since this would presumably come from his knowledge as scum that tictac is town, and a camn-SRMP-tictac triple gambit here seems immensely unlikely).
Later, in the post in which camn votes ika:
The way camn shoehorns SRMP in here, as if only to get his name in her list of scumreads but not nail herself down to anything should she later want to back off, is scummy in the same way 312 was.
~~~~~~ SRMP's scummy camn vote ~~~~~~
Spoiler:
In post 738, camn wrote:If I were scum, and I saw that shit between you and RC, I would nightkill you both. You softclaimed.
In post 833, camn wrote:Cowbells...no change from my last list.
CKD...you pretend to misunderstand. My referencing you and Cowbells as partners is SCUM partners, of course. Which is a setup I kind of doubt.
When you were spouting "its anti-town for me to explain"... That's a softclaim. You know it. I know it. There are no masons. You are no tracker. You were hoping Cowbells would buy your softclaim and back off. You failed.
Incidentally, Cowbells is no cop, either.
In post 835, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:If you were scum, and they looked like scum, why would you nightkill them?
Just to make sure we're clear, what camn was saying:
1) If I were scum and CKD claimed to be masons with RC, I'd kill them both. (Camn seems to have thought CKD was implicating himself as a mason with RC)
2) This whole thing may just be a gambit between a CKD-RC scumteam.
The first point occured in post 738, the second in 833. SRMP at first seems to think camn is still on the "if I were scum" hypothetical when she made point 2, and cast his vote on this basis. Now, not only is this a rather weak (read: fabricated) reason for a vote (Scumreading someone because they'd kill their scumread as scum?), but, more importantly, it seems to indicate that SRMP is having a hard time getting out of the "I know camn is scum" frame of mind.
In post 841, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:
He said it wasent a pro town thing to do because he would out masons. How do we know that? When he did explain thats exactly what happened, and we know it isent a pro town thing because of all the votes on him.
In post 845, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:Camn, when did he crumb cop? The reason explaining would have been anti town was because he would have outed potential masons.
In post 848, Some Random Mafia Player wrote:In post 847, camn wrote:Plus...even if he WAS talking about masons....how do you find masons? By investigating them and getting a guilty.
he dident know it from a fact, he had a read that they were masons and confirmed his suspicion by asking Elyse's read on R.
His subsequent posts after voting camn seem to indicate he's not very interested in actually pursuing this. These posts in particular make it look like he at first voted her to make it look like he was scumreading her, and is then trying to throw her a line under the guise of interrogation.
~~~~~~ Farmer's theory: SRMP's Scummy Avatar ~~~~~~
Spoiler:
When SRMP got an avatar I was surprised, but didn't think much of it. I had thought up until that point he'd be going the whole game without one. However, camn's flip, as well as the timing of his avatar adoption and the way it came about, gave me an interesting thought.
First, though, let's be clear on the timeline of this and what the evidence points to about SRMP's mindset throughout:
25 - Says "dont know how to get one yet ;-;"
30 - Jokey "town must not notice me"
130 - Dismisses it with "this discussion is useless anyway"
133 - "why do you care about me having an avatar so much?"
134 - "And yes im complaining because I couldent find a good one."
135 - Camn explains why she wants SRMP to have an avatar: "Im very visual, and I group my impression of a player in my mind based on the picture of them. I'm not the only one. People with no avatar turn into a blur in my memory." (Also, I admit this might be a stretch, but it would be convenient for camn to have people think SRMP might become a blur in her memory.)
173 - SRMP again: "I lurked here for a while before joining. [The request for SRNP to get an avatar] Was not legitimate at all."
228 - Sarcasm: "I can't find a good one, I deserve a policy ;-;"
246 - Dismissive: "wait your serious about the avatar? You, my friend, are clearly just looking for a lynch, any lynch."
253 - "why do you identify people by picture and not by name?"
The issue lies dormant for a while and neither camn nor SRMP address it in their early D2 posts, then:
666 - Camn ultimatum
674 - SRMP initially is still resistant to the notion...
677 - ...but then he suddenly gets an avatar at or before this post.
Look at his D1 feelings towards getting an avatar: dismissive, sarcastic, obstinate. When reading camn's ultimatum, I had thought to myself that it would have all the effect of pissing into a blizzard.
Camn's ultimatum came across as petty, certainly not something one would feel obliged to follow, and the rest of the thread was divided on whether SRMP should get an avatar. The avatar he chose is a splotchy blue thing that is the kind of avatar you get when you feel you have to, not when you want to.
I hate making this accusation. If it is indeed a case of SRMP making a gentlemanly gesture, then I apologize. But I can't ignore how it explains the abruptness of the reversal.
First, though, let's be clear on the timeline of this and what the evidence points to about SRMP's mindset throughout:
25 - Says "dont know how to get one yet ;-;"
30 - Jokey "town must not notice me"
130 - Dismisses it with "this discussion is useless anyway"
133 - "why do you care about me having an avatar so much?"
134 - "And yes im complaining because I couldent find a good one."
135 - Camn explains why she wants SRMP to have an avatar: "Im very visual, and I group my impression of a player in my mind based on the picture of them. I'm not the only one. People with no avatar turn into a blur in my memory." (Also, I admit this might be a stretch, but it would be convenient for camn to have people think SRMP might become a blur in her memory.)
173 - SRMP again: "I lurked here for a while before joining. [The request for SRNP to get an avatar] Was not legitimate at all."
228 - Sarcasm: "I can't find a good one, I deserve a policy ;-;"
246 - Dismissive: "wait your serious about the avatar? You, my friend, are clearly just looking for a lynch, any lynch."
253 - "why do you identify people by picture and not by name?"
The issue lies dormant for a while and neither camn nor SRMP address it in their early D2 posts, then:
666 - Camn ultimatum
674 - SRMP initially is still resistant to the notion...
677 - ...but then he suddenly gets an avatar at or before this post.
Look at his D1 feelings towards getting an avatar: dismissive, sarcastic, obstinate. When reading camn's ultimatum, I had thought to myself that it would have all the effect of pissing into a blizzard.
But then, contrary to all prior attitudes and indications, he suddenly gets one, as if he appreciated camn's veteran presence in the scum thread that night and didn't want to lose her.
Camn's ultimatum came across as petty, certainly not something one would feel obliged to follow, and the rest of the thread was divided on whether SRMP should get an avatar. The avatar he chose is a splotchy blue thing that is the kind of avatar you get when you feel you have to, not when you want to.
I hate making this accusation. If it is indeed a case of SRMP making a gentlemanly gesture, then I apologize. But I can't ignore how it explains the abruptness of the reversal.
TL;DR:
1) The reasoning behind SRMP's votes consistently suggest post-facto rationalizations, BS excuses about "pressuring", and not wanting his reasoning scrutinized by the town.
2) When reading SRMP, camn places him into a scum-leaning grey area that she can easily back out of.
3) Camn's vote on SRMP is based on supposed associative tells between him and tictac, which would only be viable if tictac and him were both scum. In SRMP's rebuttal, he doesn't even bother contesting the claim that scum-tictac equals scum-SRMP, as if he already knows that tictac wont flip scum.
4) When SRMP sees that camn is starting to get into hot water on D2, he wants to help reason her out of that hole, but to do so directly would leave him too vulnerable. So he votes for her, putting up a poor reason for doing so that reeks of having been fabricated for that purpose, and then tries to talk her into a more defensible position under the guise of an interrogation.
5) On D1, everything pointed to SRMP ignoring camn's request for him to get an avatar. But then suddenly on D2, when camn issued her ultimatum, he got an avatar, as if he appreciated camn's veteran presence in the scum thread that night and didn't want to lose her.
