Open 620: Duck Duck Goose Game Over, Mafia Victory

[MrTrow]

I'm actually very happy egg turned out to be scum.

It means there was at least one lynch that had actual scum involvement (other than the 'not-so-quick hammer')
(i might need to recheck D1 on this statement)

titus: nice move on 'catching egg's v/la prod-dodge', i probably would have fallen for that if there would have been a D5.
Though admittedly i started having my suspicions based on the fact you were still alive. (brushed it off as: 'this would be the time to PGO, will be dead tomorrow: if not THEN i'll worry, speaking up now would break that tell') @Droog: consider this a counter-example to 'always good to share all reads at all time'

I've also been very close a few times to asking egg regarding the 'shrug, probably just PGO-dodge'-answer to the 'why kill off 'fresh perspective' if not to ensure the pending newbie-(prob-quick)lynch':
Then why aren't you voting titus, who's slot was IN THE PROCESS OF FINDING REPLACEMENT that night: and thus the real safe bet?
So by your logic should be scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I've made my case to the mods, but I'd also everyone in this game to be aware of this.

No, correct play isn't to ruin a game just like it's not to quit when you don't get your way. Either you are town who wants to just tell people what to do without using any logic or reasoning and getting frustrated when it doesn't work or you are scum pretending to replace out (or doing it tactically which is against rules) so people will cater to you. Either way it's bullshit. Hard to believe your play can be even worse than the last time I played with you. Thought having two heads who I repect on your side would help things. Guess not.

Note to self: no more games with RC.

Seriously I like to play with people who actually play the game.

It's bullshit whether he's town or scum. He's either town who is threatening to ruin the game or he's scum who is breaking rules. And either way he's pulling BS just to get his way.

Mod, RC pulled himself from the game already and has implied he's willing to break rules. Can you confirm that he is out of the game and can not return?

At no point in this game did I suggest that I'd be willing to break rules. The comment about getting modkilled was a throwaway line that was clearly related to my townread on Mathilda.
Egg sought outside intervention to remove a player who had caught onto him as scum to aid his win condition and horribly misrepresented said situation to the mod team.
For the record, if this situation is not found in my favour I'm leaving the site. You should feel ashamed Egg.

[RadiantCowbells]

As an aside, well played to the rest of the scumteam and Mathilda especially who was on point.

[Egg]

Trow, sorry if I frustrated you. Wall battles tend to look town vs town to an apathetic town, so when you asked why I agreed with Pip, I jumped at the opportunity. Also it was a chance to unvote Newbie without looking bad if she got close to a lynch. For what it's worth, I do honestly believe you focused on Pip and myself Day 3 and I honestly thought it was obvious enough not to need all of the quotes. But no hard feelings I hope?

titus: nice move on 'catching egg's v/la prod-dodge', i probably would have fallen for that if there would have been a D5.

I usually do that. Probably did it multiple times this game. After being prodded and almost replaced in a game while on V/LA, I'll continue to do it in games.

I've also been very close a few times to asking egg regarding the 'shrug, probably just PGO-dodge'-answer to the 'why kill off 'fresh perspective' if not to ensure the pending newbie-(prob-quick)lynch':Then why aren't you voting titus, who's slot was IN THE PROCESS OF FINDING REPLACEMENT that night: and thus the real safe bet?So by your logic should be scum

Wow. I'm glad this post never happened because that's a great catch. That kill was Titus' choice and she was worried about being caught on it. Fresh perspective was the exact reason Titus wanted that kill. I wouldn't have even known what to say.

Preview edit: RC, I legitimately dislike when people play the whole replace out AtE thing with no intention of leaving the game. The fact that you were scumreading me had nothing to do with it.

[Newbie]

Thanks to Titus and Egg for replacing in.

I'm surprised I actually survived, lol.

[RadiantCowbells]

I won't argue with you about what you did and did not do because I already know from the tone and the context. Mafia skills at work. Don't ever try to play with me again.

[Egg]

Wasn't planning to.

[Titus]

Thanks Trow. tbh you were my townbeard. I feel bad for this.

[Something_Smart]

It's been confirmed that pip and I suck even more together than we do separately
Basically from now on I can just look at everything we did in this game and do the opposite.
GG Titus, Newbie, Egg.

[droog]

good game all
well played egg
thanks for hosting marcrell

[MrTrow]

Trow, sorry if I frustrated you.

It's pretty much, why i'm glad you turned out scum.
You had an excuse for frustrating me.
I actually had you as an 'aware bias': i really REALLY wanted you to be scum and for that reason (i think) i went easy on you. (apparently i shouldn't have )
To have 'i'm lynched? great, means i don't have to handle a V/LA' turn up town, i can handle. (that happens (unfortunately) )
But to have:
Lowell lynched over:
- his own apathy
- johnny's insistence mathilda should not clear up and present a counterwagon
- mathilda's compliance to that idea
Mathilda lynched over:
- rc's insistance mathilda keeps her case 'not concisely restated' (because 'obv-town(despite at L-1)' should not have to do that)
- mathilda's decision rc won the shouting-match with me over whether or not she should prevent her pending mislynch
SP lynched over:
- their blatant refusal to answer some simple questions regarding their case
- your insistence, they were right in refusing to do so and suggesting doing otherwise is inherently scummy

All being genuine-town-driven, that thought terrified me.

Wall battles tend to look town vs town to an apathetic town, so when you asked why I agreed with Pip, I jumped at the opportunity. Also it was a chance to unvote Newbie without looking bad if she got close to a lynch.

I believe i actually called out this part:
How 'where your vote actually was, after you flat out stated to switch to any lynch you think you can get', being irrelevant when you brought 'i was voting newbie all D3' as a counter to you doing well pretty much this. (more exactly how your entire read on me in this matter was based on 'not giving me the benefit of the doubt, i was actually interested in the answers')

For what it's worth, I do honestly believe you focused on Pip and myself Day 3 and I honestly thought it was obvious enough not to need all of the quotes.

I was focused on Pip, no argument there. (Though i do believe the 'no, you responded to basically everything' to completely shatter your 'focus is scum-indicative'-argument, which i was also going to follow up on somewhere (shortly) after wednesday)

Spoiler: the frustration on that one

I was really close to stating in my 'you still have time'-post to droog
"wednesday egg is going to present some lame excuse as to why he doesn't have the case, i'll call him out on that and then maybe he'll start on it, so i guess you have till friday to deliver"
finally scratched that part, in case of how nasty it was if you had been town
and that it was actually counter-productive to prevent the predicted pending scum-tell (the excuse)

I still completely stand by what i said there though:
If town they should have been able to answer every single question raised regarding their case, even if it was with 'oops missed that part, scratch it an moving on' if that was the honest answer.(though i do see why one might not state that out loud)
And more importantly, i still believe they should have. I mean in the end their case was 'he must be scum, because he won't believe we actually think he's scum for not voting himself'
Had they actually bothered to try to answer the questions, they'd probably realized the case didn't hold.

But no hard feelings I hope?

hard feelings? probably

Towards you? absolutely not
You treated the game anyone signing on should have.
The fact you didn't treat me the same way, that was just decent scum-play and (by extension) something i signed up for

I've also been very close a few times to asking egg regarding the 'shrug, probably just PGO-dodge'-answer to the 'why kill off 'fresh perspective' if not to ensure the pending newbie-(prob-quick)lynch':Then why aren't you voting titus, who's slot was IN THE PROCESS OF FINDING REPLACEMENT that night: and thus the real safe bet?So by your logic should be scum

Wow. I'm glad this post never happened because that's a great catch. That kill was Titus' choice and she was worried about being caught on it. Fresh perspective was the exact reason Titus wanted that kill. I wouldn't have even known what to say.

Scary thought:
After that D3, me going 'too easy' on a read, being the actual mistake *shudder*

But in all honesty, i expected your answer to be " *shrug* " and everyone (somehow) accepting this (plunging me even deeper in the 'do i just WANT this guy to be scum'-hole)
That having been said if there had been a D5 (especially given how titus wouldn't have been the N4 kill, (which i believed town-titus would have been))
I probably would have asked
(though i do see how a newbie-flip(required to even get in that situation), would have given some good(though superficial) material for my own miislynch)

Preview edit: RC, I legitimately dislike when people play the whole replace out AtE thing with no intention of leaving the game. The fact that you were scumreading me had nothing to do with it.

I've actually seen the 'follow-through'-pressure before, with a damn good motivation behind it.
There is no good reason why a townie would ever do this (true, the 'bad' reason is there), but there is a good reason for scum to do this ->
'Threatening to replace out and not replacing out, should be treated as a scum-tell'.
I don't know how accurate it is, but if RC hadn't replaced out, i would have started D3 with voting him instead

Mathilda,
Something smart,
itlpip:
please see my 'why would my alignment be a factor in that conversation'(@egg)
Even if you are convinced someone is scum when asking something (otherwise) reasonable.
Just answer.
If your read is wrong, you're helping town by doing so
If your read is correct: you're just giving me more rope to hang myself: which also benefits town.

P-edit (yes it took me that damn long to write this (that and i'm a terrible multi-tasker) ):
Titus: see my remark to egg regarding 'hard feelings'.
You treated this game with above average respect (and i don't give a shit about what that did to your treatment of me)
I look forward to seeing you in the next game

[itlepip]

I'm kinda sorry about how the game went. D3 was kinda "these are my reads and if I'm wrong fuck it" I had much much more doubt than I expressed, but w/e.

[Something_Smart]

I didn't

[droog]

scum played well
evidenced by how no one
had the complete scumteam at the end

lylo was just a formality

dont think id play this setup again
maybe it was just my circumstance
but its a lot of work
and its pretty close to mountainous
scum are right to not kill until theyre close

[RadiantCowbells]

Mathilda was painfully town

[droog]

not the way she argued me

[RadiantCowbells]

why do you think she was scum?

I can't even approach thinking that she's scum no matter what mental gymnastics I pull.

[droog]

i could see town arguments

but she snipeed at me and spip
(who was my strongest townread)
without offering an alternative wagon

she spent an entire day saying the loweell wagon
was scummmy
and i had to push her to explain who was scum on it
and her scumreads came out to be not much

i dont think she played poorly
but id lynch it again
i think it was a misfired communication

short of other townies pushing in other ways
theres not much to have done

[droog]

Lowell: Scorpious, Something Pip, Droog, Karnage, shaddowez, Newbie, RadiantalyFarrar3Lynched

mostly town
the scum was newbie
(not managing to lynch her is another topic)

that part of math's argument
that this was a scum wagon
was crucial

and i felt strongly that the drivers werent scum

[MrTrow]

Mathilda was painfully town

But the point still stands:
Clearly not everyone felt that way (and even if they did)

You went after me, for trying to get her to show she was town.

I literally spend ALL of D2 (even late D1)
with a completely genuine:
'Mathilda, if you actually are town, answer my questions to make clear to everyone what the townie-thought-process behind your actions is/was, because clearly your approach isn't working'
Sure i went from believing 50/50 'just feeding scum more rope to hang themselves'/'helping out a lost townie'(end D1), to 'prob-scum'(early D2) to 'this guy who's convincing her she's 'obv-town'-enough, she should get herself mislynched over this, is really likely to be scum'(end D2) over the course of the whole thing, but still.

Make no mistake here, mathilda got mislynched, because you convinced her, not to let me help

[shaddowez]

Wow, good job scum. Probably one of my worst games. Sorry town!

Thanks for running it, Marcrell

[itlepip]

Yeah Mr.Trow, if only we had done what you asked people to do the game would have been easy.

[Titus]

I feel bad for murdering Jeanne but the last thing we needed was a fresh pair of eyes to this game. Plus, I'd feel really bad for manipulating her as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mathilda was painfully town

But the point still stands:
Clearly not everyone felt that way (and even if they did)

You went after me, for trying to get her to show she was town.

I literally spend ALL of D2 (even late D1)
with a completely genuine:
'Mathilda, if you actually are town, answer my questions to make clear to everyone what the townie-thought-process behind your actions is/was, because clearly your approach isn't working'
Sure i went from believing 50/50 'just feeding scum more rope to hang themselves'/'helping out a lost townie'(end D1), to 'prob-scum'(early D2) to 'this guy who's convincing her she's 'obv-town'-enough, she should get herself mislynched over this, is really likely to be scum'(end D2) over the course of the whole thing, but still.

Make no mistake here, mathilda got mislynched, because you convinced her, not to let me help

This is your opinion.

I don't particularly find it useful considering you were wrong about all your reads and I wasn't, but I'll keep it in mind.

[Titus]

No your reads were pretty shit too RC.